Playing the Ghost?
- Thread starter slach
- Start date
Playing "the ghost" is a popular solo practice drill in pool (billiards) where you compete against an imaginary, flawless opponent. It is widely used to build shot-making consistency, cue ball control, and mental pressure management. [1] (https://www.pooldawg.com/article/playing-the-ghost/), [2] (https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/rating/playing-the-ghost/), [3] (https://www.facebook.com/upatour/po...r-you-to-try-for-spooky-sea/1576715234489091/), [4] (https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/how-to-play-the-ghost.208706/)
How to Play (Standard 9-Ball or 10-Ball Ghost)
1. The Break: Racks the balls (e.g., 9-ball or 10-ball) and take a standard break. [1] (https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/rating/playing-the-ghost/), [2] (https://www.pooldawg.com/article/playing-the-ghost/)
2. Ball in Hand: After the break, take cue ball in hand anywhere on the table to start your run (this gives you a fair starting chance as a practice incentive). [1] (https://www.pooldawg.com/article/playing-the-ghost/), [2] (https://www.facebook.com/upatour/po...r-you-to-try-for-spooky-sea/1576715234489091/), [3] (https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/how-to-play-the-ghost.208706/)
3. The Run-Out Goal: Attempt to pocket every remaining ball in numerical order without missing a shot or scratching. [1] (https://www.pooldawg.com/article/playing-the-ghost/), [2] (https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/rating/playing-the-ghost/)
4. Scoring the Ghost:
• If you clear the table, you get 1 point.
• If you miss or scratch at any point, the ghost wins that rack (the ghost never misses). [1] (
), [2] (
), [3] (https://www.pooldawg.com/article/playing-the-ghost/)
5. The Race: Play a set race, typically to 7 or 9 points (e.g., first to 7 wins the match). [1] (https://www.pooldawg.com/article/playing-the-ghost/), [2] (
), [3] (https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/how-to-play-the-ghost.208706/)
Common Variations & Skill Adjustments
• Adjusting Difficulty:
• If you are a beginner, start by removing a few balls from the rack (e.g., start with just the last 3 or 4 balls).
• If you consistently beat the ghost in a race to 7, make it harder by adding an extra ball to the next set or moving up to a full 9-ball/10-ball/15-ball rotation. [1] (https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/rating/playing-the-ghost/), [2] (
)
• Straight Pool Ghost: Instead of rotation, give the ghost a target score per inning (like 25 points) and see if you can hit 100 points across four innings without letting the ghost outscore you. [1] (
)
• Allowing Safeties: Some variations let you play defensive safety shots if you get out of position, though strict rules treat any missed shot as an immediate turnover to the ghost. [1] (https://www.pooldawg.com/article/playing-the-ghost/), [2] (https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/rating/playing-the-ghost/)
Where It Stands Skill-Wise
• Most players on community forums like Reddit Billiards note that casual players can manage lower ball-count ghosts, but consistently beating a 9-ball or 10-ball ghost in a race takes months or years of dedicated practice (consensus). [1] (https://www.reddit.com/r/billiards/comments/apijcx/playing_the_ghost/)
• Detailed rules and breakdown strategies can be explored via the PoolDawg Playing the Ghost Guide or Dr. Dave's Pool Info Drill Breakdown. [1] (https://www.pooldawg.com/article/playing-the-ghost/), [2] (https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/rating/playing-the-ghost/)
Watch a live commentary breakdown of running 9-ball and 10-ball against the ghost to see proper pattern play and cue ball positioning:
What game (9-ball, 10-ball, straight pool) are you planning to play against the ghost, and what is your average skill level or current handicap? I can suggest a good starting handicap.
How to Play (Standard 9-Ball or 10-Ball Ghost)
1. The Break: Racks the balls (e.g., 9-ball or 10-ball) and take a standard break. [1] (https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/rating/playing-the-ghost/), [2] (https://www.pooldawg.com/article/playing-the-ghost/)
2. Ball in Hand: After the break, take cue ball in hand anywhere on the table to start your run (this gives you a fair starting chance as a practice incentive). [1] (https://www.pooldawg.com/article/playing-the-ghost/), [2] (https://www.facebook.com/upatour/po...r-you-to-try-for-spooky-sea/1576715234489091/), [3] (https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/how-to-play-the-ghost.208706/)
3. The Run-Out Goal: Attempt to pocket every remaining ball in numerical order without missing a shot or scratching. [1] (https://www.pooldawg.com/article/playing-the-ghost/), [2] (https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/rating/playing-the-ghost/)
4. Scoring the Ghost:
• If you clear the table, you get 1 point.
• If you miss or scratch at any point, the ghost wins that rack (the ghost never misses). [1] (
5. The Race: Play a set race, typically to 7 or 9 points (e.g., first to 7 wins the match). [1] (https://www.pooldawg.com/article/playing-the-ghost/), [2] (
Common Variations & Skill Adjustments
• Adjusting Difficulty:
• If you are a beginner, start by removing a few balls from the rack (e.g., start with just the last 3 or 4 balls).
• If you consistently beat the ghost in a race to 7, make it harder by adding an extra ball to the next set or moving up to a full 9-ball/10-ball/15-ball rotation. [1] (https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/rating/playing-the-ghost/), [2] (
• Straight Pool Ghost: Instead of rotation, give the ghost a target score per inning (like 25 points) and see if you can hit 100 points across four innings without letting the ghost outscore you. [1] (
• Allowing Safeties: Some variations let you play defensive safety shots if you get out of position, though strict rules treat any missed shot as an immediate turnover to the ghost. [1] (https://www.pooldawg.com/article/playing-the-ghost/), [2] (https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/rating/playing-the-ghost/)
Where It Stands Skill-Wise
• Most players on community forums like Reddit Billiards note that casual players can manage lower ball-count ghosts, but consistently beating a 9-ball or 10-ball ghost in a race takes months or years of dedicated practice (consensus). [1] (https://www.reddit.com/r/billiards/comments/apijcx/playing_the_ghost/)
• Detailed rules and breakdown strategies can be explored via the PoolDawg Playing the Ghost Guide or Dr. Dave's Pool Info Drill Breakdown. [1] (https://www.pooldawg.com/article/playing-the-ghost/), [2] (https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/rating/playing-the-ghost/)
Watch a live commentary breakdown of running 9-ball and 10-ball against the ghost to see proper pattern play and cue ball positioning:
What game (9-ball, 10-ball, straight pool) are you planning to play against the ghost, and what is your average skill level or current handicap? I can suggest a good starting handicap.
Didn't mean to include links and duplicate videos.....sorry about that.
I need to get back on a table. I used to be able to beat the ghost in several racks per set...
He'd have to give me the 3 and out, now....
I need to get back on a table. I used to be able to beat the ghost in several racks per set...
He'd have to give me the 3 and out, now....
AI much? No way you looked all this shit up. I've been playin for 45+yrs and have seen the ghost done TWO ways: Regular, where you break, get BIH and either get out or lose. Pro is where you don't get BIH after the break. In both versions balls made on the snap stay down unless you scratch, then those balls spot. Never heard of all these crazy variations. Go in ANY room in the country and they'll be playing the ghost using one of the variations i described.
The Ghost wins if he ever gets a shot. As a spot, he gives you the break and ball in hand after the break. Rack for nine ball and break. You only win by running out. The Ghost wins the rack if you don't run out. A scratch on the break loses.
We used to play a scored version, playing 10 racks. One point per ball and two for the nine ball. Max score was 100.
I think most players should do the progressive ghost:
After the break, remove balls from the table until your current number remains on the table. Take ball in hand and try to run out.
If you beat The Ghost in a race to five, increase your number -- the number of balls you have to run for a win -- by one. If you lose, you have to decrease your number. Make the race longer if you prefer.
If you beat the nine ball ghost, the next step is to play the 10-ball ghost, then 11, then ... After the 10 ball rack, either rack 15 or figure out where to place the additional balls.
Other points:
"Pro Ghost" does not give up ball in hand after the break. You need to learn to play position on the one ball.
The Ghost has a FargoRate that depends on the table. If you are even with The Ghost on your home 8-foot table with the expansive pockets, The Ghost on that table has your FargoRate. If you try The Ghost on the front 9-foot table in the pool hall with the tiny (one pocket) pockets, and The Ghost beats you 10-5, The Ghost's FR on that table is 100 points over yours. (That's based on the standard FR calculation from ratio of wins.)
If the point of the exercise is to learn to run out, I think versions that allow safety play are counterproductive. Find ways to run out. Play position on banks. Learn to kick to make the ball. Learn combos and caroms. Make a ball; don't be afraid and hide.
We used to play a scored version, playing 10 racks. One point per ball and two for the nine ball. Max score was 100.
I think most players should do the progressive ghost:
After the break, remove balls from the table until your current number remains on the table. Take ball in hand and try to run out.
If you beat The Ghost in a race to five, increase your number -- the number of balls you have to run for a win -- by one. If you lose, you have to decrease your number. Make the race longer if you prefer.
If you beat the nine ball ghost, the next step is to play the 10-ball ghost, then 11, then ... After the 10 ball rack, either rack 15 or figure out where to place the additional balls.
Other points:
"Pro Ghost" does not give up ball in hand after the break. You need to learn to play position on the one ball.
The Ghost has a FargoRate that depends on the table. If you are even with The Ghost on your home 8-foot table with the expansive pockets, The Ghost on that table has your FargoRate. If you try The Ghost on the front 9-foot table in the pool hall with the tiny (one pocket) pockets, and The Ghost beats you 10-5, The Ghost's FR on that table is 100 points over yours. (That's based on the standard FR calculation from ratio of wins.)
If the point of the exercise is to learn to run out, I think versions that allow safety play are counterproductive. Find ways to run out. Play position on banks. Learn to kick to make the ball. Learn combos and caroms. Make a ball; don't be afraid and hide.
it doesn tell you much really.
but what would, is to break take cue ball in hand or not, and just count the balls you make before you miss. after enough tries you will get a perfect idea of how many balls in rotation you can run most times.
then from that you can now find out your best way to actually play nine ball.
the vast majority will find out that trying solely to run out after the break is not the best path to winning the game most times.
but what would, is to break take cue ball in hand or not, and just count the balls you make before you miss. after enough tries you will get a perfect idea of how many balls in rotation you can run most times.
then from that you can now find out your best way to actually play nine ball.
the vast majority will find out that trying solely to run out after the break is not the best path to winning the game most times.
Cleveland_Rocks
Active member
See my version of playing the ghost here, and more discussion at: https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/variations-on-playing-the-ghost.590833/
My version trains the break as well as the run. I have given it the name "modified pro". Here is my version:
1. Breaking, if one makes a ball, no ball in hand. A true break and run attempt begins when one or more balls are made on the break, with the cue ball not moving from the spot where rests after the break shot where one or more ball is made. If one successfully completes a break and run, 2 points for the shooter. If after one breaks and makes a ball, if one is stuck behind balls or there are clusters on the table, there is no ball in hand, in that way, no mercy. In my version, one would need to learn how to execute a good break, make a ball, get a good spread, and get a good shot on the next ball in sequence. If after the break and a ball is made a cluster exists, one is jumping or kicking.
2. Breaking, if one does not make a ball, one can take ball in hand. If one runs out all 9 balls, one gets 1 point.
3. No early nines. If a nine is intentionally made, it is spotted at the foot spot, but spotting the 9 should not in itself create a cluster. If one or more balls is already located at the foot spot, the 9 is spotted at the first place below them to give the player a neutral chance of making the run work. Not easy, not overly difficult positioning of the 9 below the ball(s) that are already on the foot spot.
4. No slop. A ball must be made intentionally to keep shooting. If a ball is made intentionally and legally, and a second ball slops in, that is fine, the second slopped ball can stay down. However, if after the break the first ball is blocked by one or more obstructing balls, slop is allowed when kicking or jumping at the first object ball in sequence.
5. A scratch on the break is 2 points for the ghost.
6. Any miss during a run, whether a true break and run attempt or a ball in hand 9 ball run attempt, is one point for the ghost and the game is over.
My version is for people who are inclined to put in work to earn something. Its also designed for people that want to better be able to "run a table". Progress can equal achievement. If one gets 1 point this week, then one can say "what do I need to work on to do better". Then a month later, or whenever later, one can get 3, then 5, then even beat this ghost.
My version trains the break as well as the run. I have given it the name "modified pro". Here is my version:
1. Breaking, if one makes a ball, no ball in hand. A true break and run attempt begins when one or more balls are made on the break, with the cue ball not moving from the spot where rests after the break shot where one or more ball is made. If one successfully completes a break and run, 2 points for the shooter. If after one breaks and makes a ball, if one is stuck behind balls or there are clusters on the table, there is no ball in hand, in that way, no mercy. In my version, one would need to learn how to execute a good break, make a ball, get a good spread, and get a good shot on the next ball in sequence. If after the break and a ball is made a cluster exists, one is jumping or kicking.
2. Breaking, if one does not make a ball, one can take ball in hand. If one runs out all 9 balls, one gets 1 point.
3. No early nines. If a nine is intentionally made, it is spotted at the foot spot, but spotting the 9 should not in itself create a cluster. If one or more balls is already located at the foot spot, the 9 is spotted at the first place below them to give the player a neutral chance of making the run work. Not easy, not overly difficult positioning of the 9 below the ball(s) that are already on the foot spot.
4. No slop. A ball must be made intentionally to keep shooting. If a ball is made intentionally and legally, and a second ball slops in, that is fine, the second slopped ball can stay down. However, if after the break the first ball is blocked by one or more obstructing balls, slop is allowed when kicking or jumping at the first object ball in sequence.
5. A scratch on the break is 2 points for the ghost.
6. Any miss during a run, whether a true break and run attempt or a ball in hand 9 ball run attempt, is one point for the ghost and the game is over.
My version is for people who are inclined to put in work to earn something. Its also designed for people that want to better be able to "run a table". Progress can equal achievement. If one gets 1 point this week, then one can say "what do I need to work on to do better". Then a month later, or whenever later, one can get 3, then 5, then even beat this ghost.
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slach, I was in the same spot not that long ago, hearing guys at the hall talk about playing the ghost and just nodding along. When I finally tried the regular 9-ball version on my own, with ball in hand after the break, it still beat me up for weeks. My break kept leaving the cue ball in the middle of nowhere, and then I was trying to run out with no margin at all.
Cleveland_Rocks, your modified pro version is the one that caught my eye, especially no ball in hand when you make a ball on the break, and no early nines. That feels a lot closer to a real game than getting a free reset every rack, and a scratch on the break costing two for the ghost would make me think twice about just swinging for the fences.
If I was starting from scratch, would you tell me to start with Bob's progressive version, taking balls off until I could actually run the number in front of me, or jump straight into your modified pro version and just take the losses while the break sorts itself out?
Cleveland_Rocks, your modified pro version is the one that caught my eye, especially no ball in hand when you make a ball on the break, and no early nines. That feels a lot closer to a real game than getting a free reset every rack, and a scratch on the break costing two for the ghost would make me think twice about just swinging for the fences.
If I was starting from scratch, would you tell me to start with Bob's progressive version, taking balls off until I could actually run the number in front of me, or jump straight into your modified pro version and just take the losses while the break sorts itself out?
The best advice I was ever given regarding playing the ghost was offered by the late and great Jimmy Fusco. He spoke of the break and ball in hand version on 4 1/2" pockets, which were the norm when he and I had the discussion.
Jimmy offered that a typical amateur should start by playing races to three against the six ball ghost. Once they win five straight sets, they can move on to the seven ball ghost, but if they lose five sets in a row, they should drop down to playing the five ball ghost, and so on. One quickly learns where their proper level lies and can easily measure their progress. The process offers motivation for the player to advance as well as avoid falling back, which comes with pressure.
Stronger players, Jimmy said, should race to five against the ghost. Fargo 650-700 players tend to level out at the nine ball ghost, players in the Fargo 700s tend to level out against the ten ball ghost. Only an 800 player is likely to be the favorite against the eleven ball ghost, and anyone who beats the twelve ball ghost more than half the time is a serious threat to win a major championship. I recall that shortly before he won his US Open 9ball title in 2006, John Schmidt mentioned to me that he was winning most of the time against the twelve ball ghost.
I recall watching the legendary Dennis Orcullo at Derby City, in about 2019, gambling with a side-better that he could beat the ten ball ghost in a race to seven using "ten ball last" rules on a 4 1/4" pocket table. Dennis won the first few sets before the side-better pulled up.
Jimmy offered that a typical amateur should start by playing races to three against the six ball ghost. Once they win five straight sets, they can move on to the seven ball ghost, but if they lose five sets in a row, they should drop down to playing the five ball ghost, and so on. One quickly learns where their proper level lies and can easily measure their progress. The process offers motivation for the player to advance as well as avoid falling back, which comes with pressure.
Stronger players, Jimmy said, should race to five against the ghost. Fargo 650-700 players tend to level out at the nine ball ghost, players in the Fargo 700s tend to level out against the ten ball ghost. Only an 800 player is likely to be the favorite against the eleven ball ghost, and anyone who beats the twelve ball ghost more than half the time is a serious threat to win a major championship. I recall that shortly before he won his US Open 9ball title in 2006, John Schmidt mentioned to me that he was winning most of the time against the twelve ball ghost.
I recall watching the legendary Dennis Orcullo at Derby City, in about 2019, gambling with a side-better that he could beat the ten ball ghost in a race to seven using "ten ball last" rules on a 4 1/4" pocket table. Dennis won the first few sets before the side-better pulled up.
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It's super simple. Break and ball in hand. Run out, you win. Miss, you lose. Most times I've seen it have zero penalty for a break scratch. So a 1990's style smash break was common, with no regard if the CB flew off the table. This was also in the days of 9 ball with everything wild, and wooden racks, so there was zero of "calling shots" or "9/10 must go last", or "pattern racking" stipulations. There were no template racks so everyone smashed the rack.
Today with template and pattern racks, if you are betting with someone, you better make the break and rack rules clear, or you will get heisted.
If doing it on your own as a measure of your own progress, come up with whatever ruleset you like.
Today with template and pattern racks, if you are betting with someone, you better make the break and rack rules clear, or you will get heisted.
If doing it on your own as a measure of your own progress, come up with whatever ruleset you like.
For a 14.1 practice session that I want to measure some type of score to let me know how well I shot, I like to go 10 innings, always starting each inning with an ideal but varied full rack break shot, shoot until you miss, record your score then re-rack to start your next inning. Total your score after 10 innings.
A score of 100+ for 10 innings is a pretty decent 14.1 player, even if you don’t have many runs over 15. A score of 150 (average of 15 balls per inning) is excellent. And any score of 200+ is a very strong 14.1 player who likely has a career high run over 100 balls.
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Cleveland_Rocks
Active member
I'm glad that you asked this. I respect Bob Jewett a lot, and I think that his method is probably best for most people when it comes to gaining confidence running balls. I'm just not sure why the break is necessary in Bob's version. When will a player break 7 balls in a competitive environment? The answer is never. For Bob's version, it may be better to just roll balls randomly out on the table and not move them if a cluster happens, thereby to not give oneself an unnatural advantage.
Regardless of if one chooses to break or not with Bob's version, Bob's version is great for gaining confidence running balls on the table. To try my version right off the bat for someone that can barely run 9 balls is probably not a good idea.
Therefore, for most people I would say that Bob's version is probably best to use first until one can win with 9 balls. Then my version would come after that.
My version is geared towards literally running the table, and gaining proficiency with true break and runs. And my version trains the break. Trust me, when one wants to beat the ghost in my "modified pro" version and scratches on the break, thereby giving the ghost 2 points, it is a great motivator to both want to and learn to keep that cue ball on the table and in a good position after the break.
I would like to note here that there is only so much that "playing the ghost" can do to improve one's ability to run out.
To improve one's ability to run out, one would be well served to also study one or more of the following:
Doing drills as Dr. Dave suggests, studying and improving one's mental game, improving the quality of one's mechanics (including the stance and stroke), studying books on pool and learning new ways to make balls and position the cue ball, improving one's mental and physical health, and if using a version of playing the ghost that includes the need to have a good break (like the "modified pro" version), learning ways to improve one's break.
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That makes sense, I'll start with Bob's and earn my way to yours. Rolling the balls out instead of breaking for the small sets is a good call too, keeps it honest. The scratch costing two is what'll finally teach my break some manners.
If your number is 7, I'm proposing you break nine balls and remove whatever is needed to get you down to 7. You pick which ones to remove.
Got it, Bob — break nine and pull the extras off. That's the part I was missing.