Filler’s 3-Rail Kick in the Reyes Cup … Was it the Right Choice?

Poolmanis said:
When i play tournaments and want test table in warm up I shoot couple times 3 rail "opposite system shot" 3 rails. It is fast way to get read of rails and cloth.
It is close what Filler had, and i am sure he know that too so that shot. Use slightly less english than natural 3 rail kick and faster speed.
Here you can see me test it on last tournament before match.
Click to expand...
Yes, good idea, but ...

In truth, the chance to warm on a stream table at a major championship is usually minimal, typically, but not always, restricted to one rack each for you and your opponent. Over the years, I've heard more than a few players complain about this, noting that the table in the practice room may or may not play like the one on which they must compete, but their complaints have, too often, fallen on deaf ears.
 
KINGSCOURT905 said:
Thanks for running that down, Dave, that's a real answer. I didn't expect the three-railer to come out that badly at the slow speed either, which makes me look at Filler's choice a bit differently. Did the medium one-railer leave him any better off when it missed, or was it a sell-out either way once he missed?
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Again, watch the shots in the video. That’s what the video is for … showing a wide range of both good and bad outcomes with each approach. The 1-railer had many good outcomes. My feeling is the percentages of good and bad leaves were similar with both approaches.
 
Poolmanis said:
When i play tournaments and want test table in warm up I shoot couple times 3 rail "opposite system shot" 3 rails. It is fast way to get read of rails and cloth.
It is close what Filler had, and i am sure he know that too so that shot. Use slightly less english than natural 3 rail kick and faster speed.
Here you can see me test it on last tournament before match.
Click to expand...
surprised you can aim at 30 (you are aiming at 30 ...yes?)
on a pool table and it works
 
sjm said:
Poolmanis wisely notes that the slick conditions were a problem associated with both the one railer and the three railer,
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With my waxed CB (simulating slick conditions), the 1-railer was much closer than the 3-railer.
 
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dr_dave said:
Again, watch the shots in the video. That’s what the video is for … showing a wide range of both good and bad outcomes with each approach. The 1-railer had many good outcomes. My feeling is the percentages of good and bad leaves were similar with both approaches.
Click to expand...
That helps, Dave. Similar percentages for good and bad leaves either way takes a lot of the argument out of it — then it really does come down to Filler trusting the kick he liked in that moment. I did go back to the video after your first note and the slow three-railer getting stuck close is clearer when you watch the outcomes back to back.
 
bbb said:
i think the fact that he didnt execute his shot choice doesnt mean he made the wrong choice
3 rail kicks are very accurate once you learn how to aim them and hit them
we have to give filler the benefit of the doubt he knows how to aim them and hit them
if filler missed pocketing a ball would we say he made the wrong choice and should have picked a different pocket?
of course not
this is the same type of situation
he missed....he is human
he is number 1 in the world
for me he gets the benefit of the doubt
he made the right choice FOR HIM ...just missed it
jmho
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I was watching a poker instructional video the other day and heard - sometimes you make the right choice and it turns out bad - it was still the right choice. Sometimes you make the wrong choice and it turns out good - it was still the wrong choice.

IMHO, he made the right choice but came out wrong. Can't fault him for that.
 
Poolmanis said:
When i play tournaments and want test table in warm up I shoot couple times 3 rail "opposite system shot" 3 rails. It is fast way to get read of rails and cloth.
It is close what Filler had, and i am sure he know that too so that shot. Use slightly less english than natural 3 rail kick and faster speed.
Here you can see me test it on last tournament before match.
Click to expand...

Ditto, after I play some shots figuring out the speed of the cloth I usually go straight to 3 railer's, if I have time I might even look for some spots on walls.
 
sjm said:
Yes, good idea, but ...

In truth, the chance to warm on a stream table at a major championship is usually minimal, typically, but not always, restricted to one rack each for you and your opponent. Over the years, I've heard more than a few players complain about this, noting that the table in the practice room may or may not play like the one on which they must compete, but their complaints have, too often, fallen on deaf ears.
Click to expand...
Yes. I just move 2 last ball of that warm up rack to make 2 test shots like i did on video. That is common on official tournaments.
 
Poolmanis said:
Yes. I just move 2 last ball of that warm up rack to make 2 test shots like i did on video. That is common on official tournaments.
Click to expand...
Makes sense. Did you know that at the Mosconi Cup, just three weeks away, nobody is permitted to warm up on the TV table, not even in off hours? Hence, the data for multi-rail paths must be collected as the Mosconi Cup progresses.
 
Poolmanis said:
When i play tournaments and want test table in warm up I shoot couple times 3 rail "opposite system shot" 3 rails. It is fast way to get read of rails and cloth.
It is close what Filler had, and i am sure he know that too so that shot. Use slightly less english than natural 3 rail kick and faster speed.
Here you can see me test it on last tournament before match. ...
Click to expand...
For those who are wondering what the "opposite" system is, an extensive discussion of it, including corrections for when the balls are not sitting quite right, is in Robert Byrne's "Wonderful World of Pool and Billiards", page 109. He credits it to US 3-cushion champion Ray Kilgore, who gave up the info for the "opposite 3 system" in an interview with Manuel Baukens around 1950. Byrne describes using somewhat less than the "standard" amount of running side spin to make the system work.

"Opposite" 3 means that you do not aim at the third diamond, you aim to contact the cushion as close as possible to the third diamond. That might be shooting towards 2.5, depending on the location of the cue ball.

A version on a pool table that allows you to use your normal amount of side spin is the "Magic Spot" system, which is shown in this video. The spot moves a little according to the cloth and cushions and speed. The great thing about this kind of system is that there is no calculation -- just point and shoot.

 
Pia probably made him sleep on the couch after that choice, should have taken the higher percentage kick off the short rail. Even if he would have left a shot that’s better than BIH
 
Filler should have played a one railer. Its an easy hit, and he could have tried to clip 1/4 on the short side of the object ball on the rail with back left english, thereby sending the object ball up table and the cue ball toward the left bottom rail. Or oppositely, he could have kicked the higher 1/4 of the object ball with light to moderate right english, sending the object ball horizontally towards the spot, resting at the spot, with the cue ball running up to the top rail.

To go 3 rails is to open one's elbows up high and say "punch me in the liver please".
 
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great work as always doctor

and i have now, after many years
of looking for something to criticize in your
work, finally finally found it

this video is too long

informative and well thought out as always

and i did watch til the end and was glad i did

thank you for all you do
 
markjames said:
great work as always doctor
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Thanks.

markjames said:
and i have now, after many years
of looking for something to criticize in your
work, finally finally found it

this video is too long

informative and well thought out as always

and i did watch til the end and was glad i did
Click to expand...

I’m glad you enjoyed it, even though it was long. I suspect many people in this thread did not watch the whole thing (based on some of the comments).

markjames said:
thank you for all you do
Click to expand...

You’re welcome.

I aim to swerve. 🤓
 
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There is a way to play the one-rail kick that is more or less immune to how slippery the cloth is. Stun into the rail with gearing sidespin.
 
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