What joint does your playing cue have?
- Thread starter Belford
- Start date
Some grist for the mill. The following is from John McChesney, one of the founders of the Texas Express Tour, which popularized ball-in-hand for nine ball. This has appeared on AZB before, but not recently... McChesney speaking in the following:
Here's something interesting we tried in 1991:
At an event we had 16 cues with the butt, joint and the ferrules covered with masking tape...then numbered. No one could "see" if the cue was a steel, plastic or wood joint (as in a Pete), nor detect by the style of ferrule.
We had 70 players...each hit balls with the cues throughout the weekend.
The results:
Of nearly 800 attempts over the time period, the players guessed wrong about what type joint was in the cue more than 7 out of 10 times. A top pro (Meucci staffer) happened to be there, having done an exhibition and the cue he liked the most during the attempts, he thought was surely a Meucci, plastic joint when in reality it was an older Adams with a piloted steel joint; and additionally guessed the Meucci he shot with as a cue with a steel joint.
Again, I maintain that cues with different joint materials may sound differently, may be balanced differently, but what is "hit" ?
Doesn't "hit" have to do with all the senses: Vibration (feel), sound, balance, etc.
What is a "soft" hit? What is a "hard" hit? (what does this mean, if not the sound the cue makes upon impact, or are people ref. to the vibration in the butt?)
Does a hard hit vibrate more and make a different sound? A soft hit vibrate less with a different sound? I maintain that the primary criteria that differentiates one cue from another begins with:
>The tip (soft, med or hard)
>The shaft diameter and density of the wood
>The taper (or stiffness of the shaft)
To this day, I still don't believe the joint has much to do with the reaction of the cueball off the shaft, rather it is the 3 aforementioned that have far more bearing on how a cue plays than anything else. Remember, what makes the predator shaft play differently is what is located at the tip, inside the shaft, the ferrule and the laminations....not the joint or butt.
In closing, our experiment asked which cue the players liked best:
Of the 70 players, nearly 55 liked the hit of two cues with different numbers:
When the two were exposed, they both were sneaky petes, wood to wood joints, (one a Scruggs and the other a Huebler); both about 19 oz., both about 13 1/4mm and tended to be on the stiff side of "hit". By the way, the 55 who liked the hit of these two cues: more than half thought they would be steel jointed.
John McChesney
Texas Express
National Nine Ball Tour
PO Box 700814
Dallas Tx 75370
Voice 214 495 tour (8687)
Fax 214 495 7616
j...@texasexpress.com
http://www.texasexpress.com
Here's something interesting we tried in 1991:
At an event we had 16 cues with the butt, joint and the ferrules covered with masking tape...then numbered. No one could "see" if the cue was a steel, plastic or wood joint (as in a Pete), nor detect by the style of ferrule.
We had 70 players...each hit balls with the cues throughout the weekend.
The results:
Of nearly 800 attempts over the time period, the players guessed wrong about what type joint was in the cue more than 7 out of 10 times. A top pro (Meucci staffer) happened to be there, having done an exhibition and the cue he liked the most during the attempts, he thought was surely a Meucci, plastic joint when in reality it was an older Adams with a piloted steel joint; and additionally guessed the Meucci he shot with as a cue with a steel joint.
Again, I maintain that cues with different joint materials may sound differently, may be balanced differently, but what is "hit" ?
Doesn't "hit" have to do with all the senses: Vibration (feel), sound, balance, etc.
What is a "soft" hit? What is a "hard" hit? (what does this mean, if not the sound the cue makes upon impact, or are people ref. to the vibration in the butt?)
Does a hard hit vibrate more and make a different sound? A soft hit vibrate less with a different sound? I maintain that the primary criteria that differentiates one cue from another begins with:
>The tip (soft, med or hard)
>The shaft diameter and density of the wood
>The taper (or stiffness of the shaft)
To this day, I still don't believe the joint has much to do with the reaction of the cueball off the shaft, rather it is the 3 aforementioned that have far more bearing on how a cue plays than anything else. Remember, what makes the predator shaft play differently is what is located at the tip, inside the shaft, the ferrule and the laminations....not the joint or butt.
In closing, our experiment asked which cue the players liked best:
Of the 70 players, nearly 55 liked the hit of two cues with different numbers:
When the two were exposed, they both were sneaky petes, wood to wood joints, (one a Scruggs and the other a Huebler); both about 19 oz., both about 13 1/4mm and tended to be on the stiff side of "hit". By the way, the 55 who liked the hit of these two cues: more than half thought they would be steel jointed.
John McChesney
Texas Express
National Nine Ball Tour
PO Box 700814
Dallas Tx 75370
Voice 214 495 tour (8687)
Fax 214 495 7616
j...@texasexpress.com
http://www.texasexpress.com
It is my opinion that any joint that secures firmly the shaft to the butt makes no difference what type of joint it is.
CajunPopeye
Well-known member
I believe the Mizerak is flat faced, 5/16x1/18. The Meucci is flat faced 5/16x18. My players cue, I have no clue. I like my Frankennstick Joss cues. The Meucci feels smooth.
Not a single one of them ever hit with my Joss.
We had a big discussion and thread over this, why another? Just search the forum.
In my opinion based on test I’ve done with my cues and shafts, the joints does not affect the feel but the whole butt does.
But, different joints types affect deflection, I couldn’t believe it when I first stumbled on this argument (made by Mike Sigel and Johnny Archer) as it should not make any sense but tests that I’ve done show that it does.
Metal joints add deflection.
In my opinion based on test I’ve done with my cues and shafts, the joints does not affect the feel but the whole butt does.
But, different joints types affect deflection, I couldn’t believe it when I first stumbled on this argument (made by Mike Sigel and Johnny Archer) as it should not make any sense but tests that I’ve done show that it does.
Metal joints add deflection.
This is a survey not a discussion on what joint plays better, lol.
One joint I didn't like was partly aluminum. It became progressively harder to screw together until I sanded some of the aluminum off. The Uni-Loc joints can be bothersome as -- for me -- they tend to loosen up more than other joints.
It seems to have turned into a discussion. Threads wander.
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My players are Hueblers, so 5/16-18, oddly, I prefer a 3/8-10.
I used to play mainly with 5/16x14 cues and have a bunch of them, then switched to two main players that have a 3/8x10 and 3/8x10-Modified.
My current player has a radial pin. I don't think that it's better than the 3/8x10 but it is easier to get shafts for it nowadays.
My current player has a radial pin. I don't think that it's better than the 3/8x10 but it is easier to get shafts for it nowadays.
dquarasr
Registered
But I bet it doesn't really bother you, right?i dont understand why my cue doesnt transfer energy well with this joint.....
View attachment 942443
I have 3/8 x 11, they seem to work well.
There is NO Perfect Joint, just people's like & dislikes.
There is NO Perfect Joint, just people's like & dislikes.
My Balabushka has whatever George used. It seems to be interchangeable with my Richard Black. It works fine and I prefer a forward-balanced cue.
Strangely, the signature Balabushkas are not interchangeable with the real thing, or at least not George's standard model in 1972.
Strangely, the signature Balabushkas are not interchangeable with the real thing, or at least not George's standard model in 1972.