CTE/ PRO ONE with Stan Shuffett

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CTE does not define a precise aiming solution like ghost ball does. Unlike ghost ball, feel is a necessary part of how CTE's aiming solution is defined, not just a normal part of execution.

Feel free to emphasize the similarities between all systems; but to balance the message I'll continue to point out this fundamental difference between CTE and "exact" systems like ghost ball.

pj
chgo

pj you have admitted that you have never even tried cte on the table, and Stan has put his reputation on the line that it is an exact aiming system. You have also admitted that your statements are based on your opinions. Now who should they believe? Who should YOU beleive?
Petey
Also I would like to wish my AZ family Happy Holidays.
 
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A GEOMETRIC PROOF
Aim at the object ball contact point from an offset position on the cue ball in the direction of the cut.

richard s

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Would not the offset be different for different cut angles...how much is the question?
Thanks
 
A GEOMETRIC PROOF
Aim at the object ball contact point from an offset position on the cue ball in the direction of the cut.

richard s

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Would not the offset be different for different cut angles...how much is the question?
Thanks

LAMAS you are one smart dude, And I respect you for not trying to
make others look stupid to prove it
 
Offset

Try one tip at first. Actually the offset would vary according to the pivot point. It takes a few tries to get used to pivot points and technique. The proof I posted is simply the geometric proof, the performance will vary because the process is being carried out by human beings. I happen to be an old and pitiful human being with awful mechanics and no stroke. We also often aim at what we think is the contact point but is not ...
 
Try one tip at first. Actually the offset would vary according to the pivot point. It takes a few tries to get used to pivot points and technique. The proof I posted is simply the geometric proof, the performance will vary because the process is being carried out by human beings. I happen to be an old and pitiful human being with awful mechanics and no stroke. We also often aim at what we think is the contact point but is not ...

I am also old and my aiming was/is better than my stroke.

I have tried one tip, 1/2 tip and 1/2 ball but none of these offsets work for all angles at all distances and bridge locations. We await the "Rest of the story".
:confused:
 
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I would say that finding the ghost-ball contact point is sufficiently trivial that it involves no feel. A typical amateur is just as good at it as is a pro.
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It is trivial if you can localize it to within 0.5 mm, as this will provide your GB center (aim point) to within 1mm, which is what you need to be a good pocketer, assuming you can hit it.

I question whether those who use ghost ball can actually locate their reference points with accuracy anything close to this. I think they are just aiming by feel and the GB is their chosen crutch. Ask them to put a laser on the point where the GB z-axis meets the felt and I think you would get some laughable outcomes.

However, there is nothing wrong with this. If the ghostball gets them to within a few mm, and allows their feel to take over, and makes them happy, then why not. However, I have difficulty believing that ghostball estimation is actually accurate to anything other than a reasonable neighborhood.
 
Evidently you have to experiment to arrive at the technique that works for you. I just posted the proof that the aim and pivot method is based on sound geometric principles. The ball proportion offsets do the same thing as my proof explanation and they probably come close enough to the contact point to work. Whatever one does,I think the proof will never be anything more than what I posted - simple.
 
Here's some geometry (not mine), It is easy enought to find the contact point on the OB, but as was said by deadcrab, it isn't trivial to find the spot on the felt where the GB needs to get to.

ShotGeometry6.JPG
 
That diagram actually tells most of the story; however, if the center line of the shot is extended to the other side of the ghost ball, the triangle I mentioned is formed and the contact point is determined precisely.
 
When I walk up to the table and see what pocket i have decided to shoot the ball in, can u tell me how that pocket becomes involved in my aiming other than that is the pocket i decided to pocket the ball in?

Also are you talking about cheating the pocket or blocked pockets?

I'm not stating anything complicated.

Absolutely every aiming system must reference the exact location of the pocket.

If we didn't care what direction the ball went, we wouldn't call it AIMing.

added after: Its sounds to me like you have never used cte?

Not true.
 
Here's some geometry (not mine), It is easy enought to find the contact point on the OB, but as was said by deadcrab, it isn't trivial to find the spot on the felt where the GB needs to get to.

View attachment 161909

Doesn't this kinda go out the window with this kinda shot where you are shooting the 8 ball.

Oh, I can find the exact spot on the table to put the CB to make the OB.
 

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Doesn't this kinda go out the window with this kinda shot where you are shooting the 8 ball.

Oh, I can find the exact spot on the table to put the CB to make the OB.

I would pivot if I were jumping, But I rather just go rail first and be done
 
Here's a little shot that came up in practice that kinda makes it hard to use CTE. You are shooting the 11 and the CB and 11 are not touching. Yep, you got to reach for the bridge or do it one handed like I did.

If you cannot use CTE on ALL shots, it is useless to learn. I've read where some use this systems x amount of time and then this one x amount of time.

Why not use something that works on every shot like GB.

Use the arrow, you will learn exacly where to put the CB to make the OB.

Anything else is a waste of time an money.

I spent two hours just making ball after ball using my GB. Just see where to put the CB on the table to make the OB and in went in the shot, no matter if combo, bank, caroom or rail first.

CTE is a waste of time and money. I'll me glad to show anyone how well my GB works.
 

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In a game situation
Here's a little shot that came up in practice that kinda makes it hard to use CTE. You are shooting the 11 and the CB and 11 are not touching. Yep, you got to reach for the bridge or do it one handed like I did.

If you cannot use CTE on ALL shots, it is useless to learn. I've read where some use this systems x amount of time and then this one x amount of time.

Why not use something that works on every shot like GB.

Use the arrow, you will learn exacly where to put the CB to make the OB.

Anything else is a waste of time an money.

I spent two hours just making ball after ball using my GB. Just see where to put the CB on the table to make the OB and in went in the shot, no matter if combo, bank, caroom or rail first.

CTE is a waste of time and money. I'll me glad to show anyone how well my GB works.

In a game situation I would shoot the 14 to the rail freezing the cb to the 2. But thats just me
 
So far I've only managed to plow through the first 52 pages, so if I've missed this discussion please forgive me.

So here's my question. I've seen a lot of discussion on geometry and getting to that geometrically correct contact point. However, as I think we all know, geometry isn't the whole story. You can get the geometry of the cut 100% correct, hit the OB directly on the contact point and still miss miserably because of collision induced throw, spin induced throw, skid, COF of the cloth, etc. In a word, physics.

I'm not making any claims to knowing the answer. I certainly do not. However it occurs to me that perhaps CTE is somehow taking portions of the physics into account without us knowing it.

What do you think?
Sorry Pete, but there's no way that's possible.

What you say about throw is very true. But throw varies all over the place depending on cut angle, CB spin, and even the speed of the shot. Generally speaking, we can assume unless otherwise told, that descriptions of aiming methods are for the nominal case: a center-ball hit with (perhaps) a rolling CB such that throw is reduced to smallish value (i.e., less than a degree). (The time it takes for the balls to compress and then decompress also counteracts friction generated throw to some extent, but not too much.)

Or, the targeted direction is already modified to account for throw. That is, the raw OB direction, geometrically speaking, would be off to the side of center-pocket, but throw re-directs it.

Throw is not the savior of CTE - that's the job of ghostball in one of its several incarnations. The responsibility has been assigned to it because no one else can do it. This is not a mystery at the frontiers of science. For those who've had high-school geometry, and several that haven't, it's very straightforward stuff.

Jim
 
Here's a little shot that came up in practice that kinda makes it hard to use CTE. You are shooting the 11 and the CB and 11 are not touching. Yep, you got to reach for the bridge or do it one handed like I did.

If you cannot use CTE on ALL shots, it is useless to learn. I've read where some use this systems x amount of time and then this one x amount of time.

Why not use something that works on every shot like GB.

Use the arrow, you will learn exacly where to put the CB to make the OB.

Anything else is a waste of time an money.

I spent two hours just making ball after ball using my GB. Just see where to put the CB on the table to make the OB and in went in the shot, no matter if combo, bank, caroom or rail first.

CTE is a waste of time and money. I'll me glad to show anyone how well my GB works.

Baloney, duckie. I have asked you questions several times, and each time you have avoided them. I hope you continue to use just GB. That means, you are a one arrow shooter. Have another question for you. Put the cb 6" from the pocket, ob in the dead center of the table. Shoot with your GB, and make the ball and follow the cb right behind it. Try it 10 times. Then, take the same shot, and shoot it into the other corner. Since you are willing to show anyone, when can we expect your video on youtube??
 
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i wonder how long it took for guys like pj,duckie to decide that the internet wasnt useless, I bet they were pushed constantly by there kids to try it and gave in years later.

mike page you lost me on what points you were trying to make?
 
Sorry Pete, but there's no way that's possible.

What you say about throw is very true. But throw varies all over the place depending on cut angle, CB spin, and even the speed of the shot. Generally speaking, we can assume unless otherwise told, that descriptions of aiming methods are for the nominal case: a center-ball hit with (perhaps) a rolling CB such that throw is reduced to smallish value (i.e., less than a degree). (The time it takes for the balls to compress and then decompress also counteracts friction generated throw to some extent, but not too much.)

Or, the targeted direction is already modified to account for throw. That is, the raw OB direction, geometrically speaking, would be off to the side of center-pocket, but throw re-directs it.

Throw is not the savior of CTE - that's the job of ghostball in one of its several incarnations. The responsibility has been assigned to it because no one else can do it. This is not a mystery at the frontiers of science. For those who've had high-school geometry, and several that haven't, it's very straightforward stuff.

Jim

What are you talking about Wrong? I think you got me mixed up with someone else
 
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