Badpenguin
Well-known member
Yeah it did look wonky. I'm wondering if that can also be caused by the cue ball hopping off the rail and the top catching after it lands.
Waxing the cue ball? WTF is Kaci talking about now?
- Thread starter benjaminwah
- Start date
The bite on CIT is reduced to the degree that the polished CB yields a functionally different shot than an out the box CB. Longer and thinner cuts become more reliable - especially on difficult pockets.
As to Chua's draw, it is possible he has the soft draw perfected to that degree. That is, he is able to nano hop** the CB the optimum distance to produce that effect with clean phenolic and standard <tip/chalk>. But, silicon is like spray talent in that regard.
**The cue ball does skim the cloth at medium speeds. Lay a dime in the middle of the table. You'll be able to hop that millimeter with a normal stroke.
Have to add that long cuts are more feasible because with less throw, they can be shot closer to pocket speed.
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maybe his chalk got damp? prick the tip. Wipe the cue ball yourself. Maybe the Pino's are used to humidity drenched tables over there and adjust?World number six Eklent Kaci has called for any player caught cheating to be banned for a long time after the cue ball behaved in a strange fashion at the World Pool Championship.
Kaci, who was beaten in the final in Saudi Arabia last time around at the hands of world number one Fedor Gorst, exited the tournament in the last 32 at the hands of world number 61 Patric Gonzales.
Gonzales was amongst seven Filipino players to book their places into the World Championship last 16, joining the likes of Carlo Biado, Anton Raga, Jefrey Roda and James Aranas at the business end.
However, Albania’s Kaci raised his concerns via social media following his abrupt exit and fuelled the strong rumours that certain Filipino players have been waxing the cue ball in some manner.
“I lost in the last 32 against one of the 30 Filipinos in the tournament,” Kaci began. “[There was a] weird cue ball, it was all over the place.
“I think the cue ball was waxed real bad, and I think whoever gets caught doing it should get banned for enough time for their gloves, towel and whatever to get real dry.”
Kaci later added: “I’m not complaining because I lost. It’s not my first time and it’s not going to be my last time losing that’s for sure.
“My mind says that the cue ball was playing different, compared to my previous three matches, where the start of the match plays just fine, and then mid-match until the end tables and balls play tougher and tougher.
“Last match I had too many over-draw shots, playing a safe shot, aiming half of the ball with english, and didn’t even hit the ball, missed lots of shots by a mile where english was needed, out of position totally sometimes.
“Even if nothing wrong was with that cue ball, I still think that the authorities in charge about this stuff should take this seriously. It has happened many times in many tournaments, where lots of players have complained about it and no one has gotten punished. It will keep happening from one or another.”
Kaci’s concerns come following the cue ball behaving oddly in Jeffrey Ignacio’s 11-10 win over Aloysius Yapp, with world number two Yapp putting ‘wax on, wax off’ on his Instagram story post-match.
Yapp has since apologised for that quip and who it may have affected. But he also said: “We players are letting the relevant authorities handle it now. Whatever the verdict may be, we players we accept it.”
Yapp added: “It’s basically impossible for a cue ball to be slicker at the end than at the start after 21 racks of play, with the refs sweaty palms and humidity in the room too.”
‘I think the cue ball was waxed real bad’ – Kaci questions Filipino opponent after World Championship exit
Last year’s runner-up Eklent Kaci has raised cheating concerns following his World Pool Championship exit (Photo: Taka Wu)absolute-pool.com
tips made of 90 durometer rubber make wild shots. Used contact lenses are the right curve.
billiards_watch
Well-known member
I still don't see it.
On any given day I can get do that 'delay draw' where the ball delays in coming back. New and old cloth. Clean or dirty balls.
I just don't see it. I am inspired by how Strickland can put outside draw and essentially curve the cue ball after contact and I can pull this off. I'm assuming the pros can do this at will.
I don't care how many games are played on these new cloths. It's still new since these guys aren't eating or have nasty hands or playing with nasty house cues. Basically their environment is fairly clean. We can't compare their tables to the tables we play at our local pool room. I have played on new cloth. I make sure to do it every time a pool hall replaces their felt. I will make sure to go early and play on them for hours on end. They will play new for a few weeks. A month at max.
On any given day I can get do that 'delay draw' where the ball delays in coming back. New and old cloth. Clean or dirty balls.
I just don't see it. I am inspired by how Strickland can put outside draw and essentially curve the cue ball after contact and I can pull this off. I'm assuming the pros can do this at will.
I don't care how many games are played on these new cloths. It's still new since these guys aren't eating or have nasty hands or playing with nasty house cues. Basically their environment is fairly clean. We can't compare their tables to the tables we play at our local pool room. I have played on new cloth. I make sure to do it every time a pool hall replaces their felt. I will make sure to go early and play on them for hours on end. They will play new for a few weeks. A month at max.
billiards_watch
Well-known member
The only weird shit is that Ko shot on the 8 and shoots pass the 9. The cue ball should be coming off wider.
billiards_watch
Well-known member
I'm not surprised anymore and perhaps Filipinos are use to playing crazy hot conditions that we can only imagine. They are playing shirtless in swimming shorts and sandals. They play outdoors on tables exposed to the environment. They are use to playing in compact rooms and crowds.
They play barefooted.
They can play pool with what's left of a chicken bone that they were eating in between shots.
They play barefooted.
They can play pool with what's left of a chicken bone that they were eating in between shots.
Went back and watched the Hanoi Open final between Chua and Ko. Dunn used examples from that match to question if waxing was going on.
My reaction was a lot different than Dunn’s after watching the match. The table played fast and slick for both players. The first rack required 19 shots to complete. Chua missed four shots, underdrew the ball once, and overdrew the ball once. Ko misssed three shots, but won the rack. The ref then handled the cue ball, followed by Ko. Neither showed an unusual reaction.
JJ made a comment about the cue ball ‘hydraulicking’ on Ko on one made shot when the CB came off the short rail. A similar reaction occurred on a shot by Chua later on that resulted in a final CB position that was not what he intended. But these were the only two instances I saw in a 13-7 match.
After the first rack was over, Phil Yates suggested that both players seem ‘befuddled’ at times by how the balls reacted. Later in the match, JJ suggested the table was playing like a "Mosconi" table. I think he was referring to the huge crowd attending the match, the biggest and most lively I have ever seen outside of the Mosconi Cup.
Toward the last third of the match, JJ implied the table was slick for both players and the one who adjusted quicker would win. He seemed to think the problem was the table: "Karl , have you ever seen a table play so slick?"
Yates also mentioned how both players were overdrawing the ball ‘all night.’
Still, I thought almost all the shots reacted as one might expect on a slick table. For both players. Nor did I see Ko struggling very much. Toward the end of the match the table even seemed to slow down a bit.
My reaction was a lot different than Dunn’s after watching the match. The table played fast and slick for both players. The first rack required 19 shots to complete. Chua missed four shots, underdrew the ball once, and overdrew the ball once. Ko misssed three shots, but won the rack. The ref then handled the cue ball, followed by Ko. Neither showed an unusual reaction.
JJ made a comment about the cue ball ‘hydraulicking’ on Ko on one made shot when the CB came off the short rail. A similar reaction occurred on a shot by Chua later on that resulted in a final CB position that was not what he intended. But these were the only two instances I saw in a 13-7 match.
After the first rack was over, Phil Yates suggested that both players seem ‘befuddled’ at times by how the balls reacted. Later in the match, JJ suggested the table was playing like a "Mosconi" table. I think he was referring to the huge crowd attending the match, the biggest and most lively I have ever seen outside of the Mosconi Cup.
Toward the last third of the match, JJ implied the table was slick for both players and the one who adjusted quicker would win. He seemed to think the problem was the table: "Karl , have you ever seen a table play so slick?"
Yates also mentioned how both players were overdrawing the ball ‘all night.’
Still, I thought almost all the shots reacted as one might expect on a slick table. For both players. Nor did I see Ko struggling very much. Toward the end of the match the table even seemed to slow down a bit.
billiards_watch
Well-known member
I didn't watch the entire match but I did a random audit and randomly clicked on a random shot. Didn't see anything out of the ordinary.
It may be strange to people that have never played on a glassy table.
Now I need to watch the match that people are accusing of cheating. The Chua/Ko match isn't relevant to what happened this past weekend.
Was it Eddie Nagle shooting with an 11mm shaft?
No, it was Napa Jack.
I think it's unfortunate Chua's name was somehow mentioned, I believe names were circled around among players until DD made the post.
I have watched Chua for over 10 years and he has always played outrageous overpowered shots, maybe he has been more successfully over the last 1-2 years but I dont see anything suspicious... I have been a pool commentator for 2 years and did a lot of Chua's match, even local tournaments.
But he must have implied there are Filipinos who accused him too.
About the final table at Hanoi Open 2024, as a matter of fact, it is the central table and was covered for the first 4 days, only used from day 5 when the Last 16 started, so it would play slick.
I made a post for fellow Vietnamese to understand the situation, not to judge right/wrong (unfortunately ppl are so quick or so eager to judge right/wrong, thus the toxic opinions on fb)... because as many of you have mentioned, it would be unprovable and the most important thing is that we move forward with some rules to make sure pool will be played better.
Whatever motivations, it did get Chua to the showers.
I think its just whining when you play bad. The reffs are cleaning the cue ball on request and if there was really a problem why didn't Kaci, Gorst or Yapp complain during the match??? I mean your playing for $250K and you not fighting for the Money!!!
dendweller
Well-known member
I definitely think anything that changes the behavior of the ball, that one player knows about and the other doesn't, is a big advantage for the one that knows. The player that doesn't know is likely to be a little befuddled.
I know a player, who uses silicone spray to practice on our club tables before he goes to state championships or european championship to get used to a fresh cloth there. It makes a difference for sure.
But i have to admit, I never played with silicone plus new cloth...must be like playing on ice..
But i have to admit, I never played with silicone plus new cloth...must be like playing on ice..
Back in 2010 at the World Team Championships we played on SAM tables with milliken cloth (if I'm not mistaken about the cloth), these tables were so slick and fast that it was so hard to control the CB, it was ridiculous.
Pro snooker and Carom tables have heates under the slate to dry humidity and to make the table run faster and more consist, maybe pool tables should have that as well and no one would need to wax anything.
Pro snooker and Carom tables have heates under the slate to dry humidity and to make the table run faster and more consist, maybe pool tables should have that as well and no one would need to wax anything.
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it is also kind of the euros and rest of the world ganging up on the filipinos.. we know there is a lot of shit talking and dislike of certain players like deluna and ignacio. and two ignacio controversies in two subsequent WC's, yada yada.. he seems to rub some players the wrong way. and then these things spreads to groupings of players, then to players from the philippines in general etc.
to think that chua, on the biggest stage he's ever been, in his biggest match ever and with all that exposure, would cheat is an incredible idea to me. he'd do that in front of hundreds of thousands of viewers? to think he'd cheat in the first place no matter the stage is a big step for me. he seems like a stand up, no bs kind of guy.