Waxing the cue ball? WTF is Kaci talking about now?

[Badpenguin]

If there is some way to detect silicone or other substances, it needs to be used randomly just like drug testing. If someone is caught, they need to be banned for life. And not in secret like the alleged European player that everyone keeps talking about but not naming. Ban one of them for life and I bet that would really help put a stop to it.

While they are at it, they need to put a stop from players rubbing their sweaty palms on the rail cloth (both Fedor and SVB do this), and "cleaning" the cue ball on the rail cloth (Fedor does this). This isn't your home table and to be used as your personal wash cloth. Why would you ever clean the cue ball by spinning it on the rail where you just rubbed your palm anyway? Only the ref should be "cleaning" the cue ball.

While they are at it, they should ban the use of chalks that leave residue on the cue ball and can cause skids, like master chalk. After SVB shoots, for example, the cue ball is filthy. This can be a disadvantage to the incoming player, just like "waxing" the cue ball.

Before every break and during every BiH the cue ball should be cleaned with diluted alcohol or something else that can get rid of crap like this.

Is this waxing business a part of why players are not allowed to touch or move the cue ball during lags in WPA events?

 

[boogieman]

Well, I recalled that BCA prohibited the use of waxed or polished pool balls in a sanctioned tournament. Apparently, WPA is the governing body because BCA now references WPA’s rules which strictly forbid using polished balls or waxed cue ball in a sanctioned tournament. The pool balls can only be cleaned using soap and water. Any polished or waxed pool balls must be cleaned and dewaxed using a clean damp cloth moistened with diluted alcohol before play. Pool balls cannot be contaminated with any slippery substance for use in a tournament or otherwise it’s commonly referred to as cheating.

There's a local bar that is kind of a hotspot for tournaments. 3 Valley tables, but enough competition, Calcutta, and sometimes added pots for them to fill up. It gets players from about a hundred mile radius.

I was warming up a bit and confused as the balls were acting all sorts of weird. They weren't throwing and the CB just kind of glanced off, also it spun weird. Come to find out, the owner cleaned the balls in a bucket cleaner and then sprayed them with Armor All!

I don't know if anyone was "in the know" about this, but what a weird tournament that was. Good players just butchering shape and missing normal shots.

 

[Badpenguin]

There's a local bar that is kind of a hotspot for tournaments. 3 Valley tables, but enough competition, Calcutta, and sometimes added pots for them to fill up. It gets players from about a hundred mile radius.

I was warming up a bit and confused as the balls were acting all sorts of weird. They weren't throwing and the CB just kind of glanced off, also it spun weird. Come to find out, the owner cleaned the balls in a bucket cleaner and then sprayed them with Armor All!

I don't know if anyone was "in the know" about this, but what a weird tournament that was. Good players just butchering shape and missing normal shots.

Oh well, at least no player had an advantage, lol.

 

[skogstokig]

Notes from listening to Robocop's Facebook video 5:20 to end:
He recalls incident in about year 2000 where a tournament had balls cleaned and the polishing included waxing the balls.
Europeans many years ago dominated pool and used wax a lot. Asian and especially Phillipino players did not but have catched up to the Europeans. Now he heard that everyone uses waxes. Players put it on their gloves or hand or palm.
He made it sound like balls are being waxed and it will continue unless tournament organizers set rules to stop it such as player can hold ball-in-hand only with three fingers. Referee touches balls at other times and not players.
.

i started listening but it was a lot to fade. make a post next time dennis

 

[Amaury]

As for Chua, I've watched him more than anyone the past two years. I've never noticed anything unusual or heard commentators refer to weird bounces when he was playing. I'd be shocked, shocked if he were doing anything illegal. Very surprised to see insinuations against him.

Dunnski Dungeon | Ok so ima put a few of the videos here | Facebook

Ok so ima put a few of the videos here I ain’t got time to go screenrecord a ton more matches. It was suggested i put proof of my accusations in a post . Here’s a fun fact for yah, these aint my...

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Just jump at the videos at the end, with the sound. JJ and Karl are making comments about it.

 

[billiards_watch]

Dirty balls have more impact than a clean ball.

You guys are going to get me to buy my own set. LOL

They clean them at my pool hall and you have to go on a Monday if you want to play a clean set. Sunday is at its worst.

 

[g0ds gReeN]

While they are at it, they need to put a stop from players rubbing their sweaty palms on the rail cloth (both Fedor and SVB do this), and "cleaning" the cue ball on the rail cloth (Fedor does this). This isn't your home table and to be used as your personal wash cloth. Why would you ever clean the cue ball by spinning it on the rail where you just rubbed your palm anyway? Only the ref should be "cleaning" the cue ball.

Walking into my closest room and seeing the state of the rail cloth on some tables makes me want to throw up sometimes. I never understood why people do this. It's so freaking gross.

 

[straightline]

After reading this thread, I am still not sure how waxing a ball could: benefit the player doing it; hurt his opponent; and not backfire on the player doing the waxing.

It's being blindsided by the change that does the damage. The unwitting player/players can only watch as their critical shots go awry. It needn't be a simple case of one player vs another either. Potentially troubling matches by prevented entirely by well placed lube events.

 

[fastone371]

I have never given it any thought but cleaning on shirts or in pockets leads me to wonder could there be some accidental tampering? Softener sheets definitely leave a residue behind as do some soaps. I don't know about all the other things that might be used in regular laundry or a cleaners when somebody is on the road and drops off laundry somewhere.

I don't like cleaning a ball on the cushion just because anything that comes off the ball goes on the table. Never gave it any thought but even the ref cleaning balls might be inadvertently doctoring the cue ball. Probably need to go to a special cloth or paper towel that has been selected to not affect play.

No question there is the occasional cheater but my gut feeling is that there isn't widespread and deliberate cheating. Typically if a person turns a pants pocket inside out there will be a collection of lint. I wonder what all stays in that lint which builds up over multiple washings?

Just some speculations. Some people use hair care products that might affect play inadvertently from hands on the hair like Efren's head scratch/rub. Some people get very dry skin and use a lotion of some kind too.

Just some random thoughts. I think accidental tampering with the cue ball is more likely than deliberate tampering. Many a pitcher has deliberately doctored a baseball with a hair care product. No reason to think it couldn't happen accidentally too.

Just some thoughts. I think accidentally doctoring the cue ball is more likely than deliberate tampering.

Hu

Sometimes hotel maids scrub the toilet with a guests toothbrush, you never know what could inadvertently happen.

 

[jbart65]

Dunnski Dungeon | Ok so ima put a few of the videos here | Facebook

Ok so ima put a few of the videos here I ain’t got time to go screenrecord a ton more matches. It was suggested i put proof of my accusations in a post . Here’s a fun fact for yah, these aint my...

www.facebook.com

Just jump at the videos at the end, with the sound. JJ and Karl are making comments about it.

I didn't find Dunn's videos conclusive of anything in particular.

Saw the whole Chua-Ko match at the time. Didnt notice anything funny or one player having an advantage. I assumed the weather in Vietnam was the biggest factor.

That said, I have seen Chua play 100-150 hours at least. He's always gotten great draw action - better than most -- on different tables, different places, different conditions, WPA, WNT ...

Got to wonder if this is a real controvery or another Deflate-Gate. Whatever the case, it's clear a lot of pros think other pros are waxing.

 

[rharm]

Look, the ref is right there. If whiny EK thought this was happening he would have said something then. NO, instead he whines/bitches about it after the fact. STFU loser.

Haven't Gorst and Yapp both make statements about it now? And the commentators were also talking about how much action the cue ball was getting, so it wasn't just EK

 

[dquarasr]

New cloth makes draw much easier. So does a polished (but not waxed) cue ball if the cue ball is scuffed from break shots and miscues.

If you want to try wax at home, paste wax or ArmorAll silicone spray will work. Polish the cue ball first.

Based on other comments in this thread, I tried Pledge. Wow, what a difference. The CB acts like it's on brand-new cloth.

The measles ball is untreated. The Rempe training ball is treated. These two shots are exactly the same distance between the balls and the pockets. The "Pledged" ball did that spin-in-place-before-moving backwards I have to really hit low to get to happen otherwise. I tried this shot a number of times to verify it's not me hitting the CB with inconsistent tip placement or speed. This is only one example; the other shots I made had similar results.

I played around with various angles, and yes, this pretty much replicates the CB paths I get at the hall, so I will be able to practice with the "Pledged" ball to get better used to it without going to the hall (of course it's probably not exact but will be close enough). Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[arps]

Kaci was acting like his game with Patric Gonzales was hill-hill, and somehow this unknown no-rank Filipino beat him using this “wax” thing. The score was 11-6.

 

[Grinderman]

Oh, does Kaci have a record over the years of accusing people that he loses to as being cheaters?

Seriously?? How 'bout that he just got beat and is a whining biach looking for an excu

 

[briclops]

Kaci was acting like his game with Patric Gonzales was hill-hill, and somehow this unknown no-rank Filipino beat him using this “wax” thing. The score was 11-6.

We have seen that Kaci is capable of making a comeback. With a proper cue ball he could have won.

 

[Grinderman]

I'm with Chua here. As the Greek philosopher and historian Herodotus once noted "the past is history."

Little is achieved through any of these "unprovable" allegations of unfair play at the World 9ball. On the other hand, the observations of the players as a group matter very much in mapping out the future of our game.

The bottom line here is that the collective awareness of the silicon/wax issue has risen. Pool can make a positive out of all this by implementing rules that make it much more difficult for players to tamper with the cue ball and establish penalties for infractions.

It achieves nothing to try to single out those that may have been guilty of an infraction at the just completed World 9ball, but if nothing is done to limit tampering with the cue ball going forward, pool will have missed an opportunity to improve itself.

Chua's right. Let's look forward.

You say little is achieved by these allegations and then proceed to list the positive benefits of doing so??

 

[g0ds gReeN]

Kaci was acting like his game with Patric Gonzales was hill-hill, and somehow this unknown no-rank Filipino beat him using this “wax” thing. The score was 11-6.

Was their game off stream?

 

[ShootingArts]

Based on other comments in this thread, I tried Pledge. Wow, what a difference. The CB acts like it's on brand-new cloth.

The measles ball is untreated. The Rempe training ball is treated. These two shots are exactly the same distance between the balls and the pockets. The "Pledged" ball did that spin-in-place-before-moving backwards I have to really hit low to get to happen otherwise. I tried this shot a number of times to verify it's not me hitting the CB with inconsistent tip placement or speed. This is only one example; the other shots I made had similar results.

I played around with various angles, and yes, this pretty much replicates the CB paths I get at the hall, so I will be able to practice with the "Pledged" ball to get better used to it without going to the hall (of course it's probably not exact but will be close enough). Thanks for the suggestions.

I think the real issue at your home is the red cloth. Even the Pelican is looking down his nose at it!(grin)

To everyone, the difference between typical dirty house balls at a pool hall and new balls is night and day. Far more than I would have believed without seeing for myself. I will never consent to someone bringing the balls in for a serious match and I will test any cue ball they want to use before using it.

This isn't because I suspect anyone using their own equipment of cheating but because there is more difference in new balls and old than between a custom and house cue in my opinion. Letting the other player use balls they are used to and you aren't is certainly equal to a one ball spot, maybe two. Maybe not as important in nine ball as one pocket but certainly important enough to consider a major factor over the course of a set.

That is the real deal with a true cheater. They know what to expect, the other player doesn't.

Hu

 

[Badpenguin]

Based on other comments in this thread, I tried Pledge. Wow, what a difference. The CB acts like it's on brand-new cloth.

The measles ball is untreated. The Rempe training ball is treated. These two shots are exactly the same distance between the balls and the pockets. The "Pledged" ball did that spin-in-place-before-moving backwards I have to really hit low to get to happen otherwise. I tried this shot a number of times to verify it's not me hitting the CB with inconsistent tip placement or speed. This is only one example; the other shots I made had similar results.

I played around with various angles, and yes, this pretty much replicates the CB paths I get at the hall, so I will be able to practice with the "Pledged" ball to get better used to it without going to the hall (of course it's probably not exact but will be close enough). Thanks for the suggestions.

Did it seem to affect cut shots or anything else as far as pocketing balls? I wonder if anything other than draw and maybe rebound angles off of the rails would be affected.

 

[sjm]

You say little is achieved by these allegations and then proceed to list the positive benefits of doing so??

What I'm saying is that little is accomplished by trying to litigate the WPC after the fact, but as you note, I see the benefits of taking note of the player comments and turning it into a positive by adding rules and practices that will help to make the silicon/waxing issue go away.

So, yes, I do see benefits going forward, but not backward.