Don't rack your own. If you're worried about loose racks, do this - opponent loads the rack - breaker tightens - opponent inspects if desired.
Dealing with cheats
- Thread starter Effenbobsaget
- Start date
I think the complaint is not about looseness. I think it is about ball order.
Lots of ways to cheat but I got tired of it and quit. If I couldn't beat someone without cheating, even if they were, I didn't play.
It was funny in the bars. Not uncommon for balls that had an open pocket to have the pocket blocked when I stepped away a moment during my turn. I just opened the path again with my left hand! They couldn't very well say they had blocked that very shot during my turn at the table!
By and large I let cheaters cheat. They couldn't beat me anyway and stooping to cheating was a sign of weakness. When I met them halfway my cheating went unnoticed. If you are going to cheat, be good at it. When the other player was cheating, if my left hand got near a ball it improved my shape even if I didn't make a ball.
Fun to do things with my left hand while they were standing there watching.
Hu
It was funny in the bars. Not uncommon for balls that had an open pocket to have the pocket blocked when I stepped away a moment during my turn. I just opened the path again with my left hand! They couldn't very well say they had blocked that very shot during my turn at the table!
By and large I let cheaters cheat. They couldn't beat me anyway and stooping to cheating was a sign of weakness. When I met them halfway my cheating went unnoticed. If you are going to cheat, be good at it. When the other player was cheating, if my left hand got near a ball it improved my shape even if I didn't make a ball.
Fun to do things with my left hand while they were standing there watching.
Hu
Here's my racking cheat story, which I may have shared before.
I was an area referee at the 2016 US Open Nine Ball in Norfolk. I was in charge of six tables and we were told to approach a table only when asked.
The format was rack your own nine ball with a template with the nine on the spot to avoid automatic wing balls. The players were told that pattern racking was forbidden.
I was waiting for calls sitting near a table with two good US players. "Slick" was in the top five and "Homer" might have been in the top 30.
When Homer was racking for himself, he was very clearly pattern racking -- slowly picking and placing each ball. Slick said nothing. Homer wasn't making a ball very often because of the nine on the spot, and the one ball shot on the break was not known yet.
Slick did not pattern rack, or if he did, it looked like he just threw the balls up there. He did, however, use a technique that had been around for a few years and was known to players who paid attention. At the end of racking, when players usually made sure the balls were all tight with little nudges on the balls, Slick moved the back ball very slightly away from one of the balls in the next to last row.
I had seen the technique used before in a tournament with great success, so I knew what to look for, but Homer was in the dark. That tiny movement made the wing ball dead again, and Slick make it most if not all of his breaks.
I said nothing, since I was told to stay away unless asked.
On another table in my area in the same round, Ralf Souquet was playing "Sly". Sly did the gap trick and made the wing ball. Ralf approached him after the second gap trick and quietly told him not to do that any more and he stopped.
I was an area referee at the 2016 US Open Nine Ball in Norfolk. I was in charge of six tables and we were told to approach a table only when asked.
The format was rack your own nine ball with a template with the nine on the spot to avoid automatic wing balls. The players were told that pattern racking was forbidden.
I was waiting for calls sitting near a table with two good US players. "Slick" was in the top five and "Homer" might have been in the top 30.
When Homer was racking for himself, he was very clearly pattern racking -- slowly picking and placing each ball. Slick said nothing. Homer wasn't making a ball very often because of the nine on the spot, and the one ball shot on the break was not known yet.
Slick did not pattern rack, or if he did, it looked like he just threw the balls up there. He did, however, use a technique that had been around for a few years and was known to players who paid attention. At the end of racking, when players usually made sure the balls were all tight with little nudges on the balls, Slick moved the back ball very slightly away from one of the balls in the next to last row.
I had seen the technique used before in a tournament with great success, so I knew what to look for, but Homer was in the dark. That tiny movement made the wing ball dead again, and Slick make it most if not all of his breaks.
I said nothing, since I was told to stay away unless asked.
On another table in my area in the same round, Ralf Souquet was playing "Sly". Sly did the gap trick and made the wing ball. Ralf approached him after the second gap trick and quietly told him not to do that any more and he stopped.
Roland Garcia pattern racked his way right to winning the Texas Open. It was essentially the same exact run out every single rack. Apparently he did it all the way through the tournament as there was no rule against it. They need to make a rule though. He can play with anyone but won by being the best pattern racker of the week.
There is a rule, depending on what rule set they were using.
Effenbobsaget
New member
I failed to mention that I play in an 8 ball league on a 7ft table. The opposing player is very talented and was able to set the rack in an order that produced a clear advantage for him
When in doubt do whatever Corey does. Fight fire with fire.
Pattern racking 8ball??? never heard of it. one in the front and then alternate solids-stripes. htf is he pattern racking???? in a league no less. i'm calling bullshit here.
There is a video of Corey Deuel pattern racking eight ball. He makes a solid on the break and after the break, all the solids are loose and all the stripes are clumped. It's quite amazing.
I just checked, and it appears that the CSI rules permit the racker/breaker to place the balls at eight ball in a chosen pattern.
Effenbobsaget
New member
Its certainly a thing. If you dont often play 8 ball it may not be well known to you. That is not meant to be an insult. But I know it is a thing and has started becoming more prevalent in the last number of years.
Yeah, Corey's probably the only one I would worry about.
that should be standard for all leagues and tournaments without a ref. racking.
Cory Duel found a pattern rack for 8 ball that makes it very easy to run out. There are videos on youtube about it.
Are you playing one of the CSI leagues? If so, pattern racking is against the rules.
ive found unless its on a small bar table and 8 ball, and the breaker is a super hard hitter, and can run out on many open tables,
then it makes no difference who breaks or what he does.
in 9 ball for sure, unless say around 700, the break is a detriment.
in 6 ball you play a semi safe looking break, as the break hurts you way more than 9 ball.
generally i play a safe keeping clusters in 8 ball, as i will out move my opponent, as most 8 ball players just shoot.
a good hustle is to miss- cue on your first break, and some more as it makes his next shot worse for him breaking open for you.
and makes you look extra bad.
all you guys that practice your breaks should be practicing more of a safety break, and more work on creating clusters and tied up balls, and out moving your opponent.
especially league players who almost all ive seen do nothing but shoot the easiest shot at the time. and don't look backwards from the 8 ball to their next shot choice.
if you are like an up and coming player this is about the best advice you will ever get. if you just want to win.
take it from the guy who has been called a nit and a cheater.
then it makes no difference who breaks or what he does.
in 9 ball for sure, unless say around 700, the break is a detriment.
in 6 ball you play a semi safe looking break, as the break hurts you way more than 9 ball.
generally i play a safe keeping clusters in 8 ball, as i will out move my opponent, as most 8 ball players just shoot.
a good hustle is to miss- cue on your first break, and some more as it makes his next shot worse for him breaking open for you.
and makes you look extra bad.
all you guys that practice your breaks should be practicing more of a safety break, and more work on creating clusters and tied up balls, and out moving your opponent.
especially league players who almost all ive seen do nothing but shoot the easiest shot at the time. and don't look backwards from the 8 ball to their next shot choice.
if you are like an up and coming player this is about the best advice you will ever get. if you just want to win.
take it from the guy who has been called a nit and a cheater.