Cue Collecting Advice

manwon

manwon

"WARLOCK 1"
Silver Member
calboy8686 said:
Hey All,

General question about cue collecting and hopeing someone out there can give me some sound advice.

I've played pool for years, was forced to take a break for a while, and started playing again, but at the same time I've always admired the different designs of people's cues, and wanted to start a modest collection. I've looked at literally THOUSANDS of different cues and am haveing one made for me.

Question is - What is the best way to start a collection, and what cue makers are worth collecting, buying/trading, and just holding onto w/o any play time (for investment purposes)?

I would appreciate any and ALL advice on this..... Thanks in advance.
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There are many ways to start a collection, and it all depends upon your Bank Roll but the following may be very helpful.

1. Make a budget that you can spend annually for cues.

2. Research cue trends and do not be deceived by the SECONDARY MARKET. In many cases the market can be influenced by cue dealers throughout the community. These gentleman have customers always looking for the next great cue maker, so these gentleman are always on the lookout for new talent in the Cue Making Community. Does this mean that they are always right certainly not, however, their recommendations can have short term influences on their market so I would be careful buying high end products from new Cue makers. However, if you like what a new guy is building I would recommend buying directly from the cue maker, this way you will get the best bang for your buck. Next what many people do not realize is that the market is broken down into Antique Cues, Great playing Cues and Beautiful cues that are built from an artistic stand point. Collector cues fall into one of the three categories above but do not be deceived great collector cues do not have to be great playing cues, in fact many famous Collector cues will never really be used. If I started a collection today I would try and stay with a particular theme, such as, Antique cues, Butterfly Cues, Full Spliced cues, and on and on. I would also buy cues that are collectible but that are also known to be great players, this way you hedge your bet, because if the collectible side of the market is weak some one is always looking for a great player by a known cue maker.

3. Once you have chosen your collecting theme, I would place orders directly with the cue maker when every it is possible. First and foremost collector cues on the secondary market will cost you more, and second many cue makers only offer a warranty to the original owner. Buying from the cue makers directly also allows you put the funds away during the build period if you do not have unlimited funds, because most cue makers only require a deposit. While some will certainly disagree with me on the above you will get the best bang dollar for dollar buying directly from the cues maker.

4. Buy cues that you really love, this way you will always be satisfied with your purchase. No one can predict the future of this market, however, doing good research and by not buying into hype you should do very well long term. Again I can't say it enough, research is the key to collecting anything without being educated on this subject and by relying only on what others tell you can be a very expensive mistake.


Good Luck Collecting:smile:
 
RRfireblade

RRfireblade

Grammer Are For Stupids
Silver Member
vinniebabarooch said:
I disagree.
This is a great time to start collecting cues. Most people are selling custom cues at a all time low.
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Customs , yeah. Custom builders are a dime a dozen nowadays and the future market will reflect that.

Truly collectables , now thats a whole different ballgame , no ones giving those away. Not the smart collectors anyways. ;)
 
runout1961

runout1961

Ecclesiastes Ch. 12: 1-7
Silver Member
poke&hope said:
Cues are not an investment.
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Why not? Although I highly believe EVERY cue was meant to be played with, how can you say cues are not an investment?

Not ALL cues are sound investments, but if you buy the right cues, you will never lose.

A profit is made when you buy, not when you sell. If you buy right, you can't go wrong......with certain cues of course.

Edited to add: to the OP-Deno Andrews says it best; collect what you like.

I've always kept that in mind and have never been dissatisfied with any purchase(s) I've made.
 
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calboy8686

calboy8686

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm tending to agree with you. When the econ is down most people are wanting to cash out across the board. there should be a lot of deals to be had out there. But you also have a good point with trying to figure out who the top cue makers are. I have a fair idea, just by the number of times I see a particular name come up for sale and the price tag that goes along side, but your absolutely right, if I was going to try and make money then yes, it's all about staying with the trend of the top makers. But there are those of us that wand the benefit of both worlds - something nice to play with, AND something that will appreciate in value over time. ;)

vinniebabarooch said:
I disagree.
This is a great time to start collecting cues. Most people are selling custom cues at a all time low. Find what you like and start buying. Do some research on what they are worth. I can guarantee if you stay with the top 5 cue makers, you will make money in the end. Now you just have to figure out who they are. ;)
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calboy8686

calboy8686

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Very good points.... In the end things do come down to money, taste, and like everything else in life - making the best choice possible in a given situation. In regards to buying directly from the cue maker - ABSOLUTELY for two purposes (that I can see at least - 1 in terms of price, and 2 in terms of something to either play with or sell/trade cause it's always easier to deal with new/gently used items than it is to deal with used items that have been mistreated. The other advantage with buying directly from the maker is you can set up a payment plan so cash flow is always maximized. :thumbup:

manwon said:
There are many ways to start a collection, and it all depends upon your Bank Roll but the following may be very helpful.

1. Make a budget that you can spend annually for cues.

2. Research cue trends and do not be deceived by the SECONDARY MARKET. In many cases the market can be influenced by cue dealers throughout the community. These gentleman have customers always looking for the next great cue maker, so these gentleman are always on the lookout for new talent in the Cue Making Community. Does this mean that they are always right certainly not, however, their recommendations can have short term influences on their market so I would be careful buying high end products from new Cue makers. However, if you like what a new guy is building I would recommend buying directly from the cue maker, this way you will get the best bang for your buck. Next what many people do not realize is that the market is broken down into Antique Cues, Great playing Cues and Beautiful cues that are built from an artistic stand point. Collector cues fall into one of the three categories above but do not be deceived great collector cues do not have to be great playing cues, in fact many famous Collector cues will never really be used. If I started a collection today I would try and stay with a particular theme, such as, Antique cues, Butterfly Cues, Full Spliced cues, and on and on. I would also buy cues that are collectible but that are also known to be great players, this way you hedge your bet, because if the collectible side of the market is weak some one is always looking for a great player by a known cue maker.

3. Once you have chosen your collecting theme, I would place orders directly with the cue maker when every it is possible. First and foremost collector cues on the secondary market will cost you more, and second many cue makers only offer a warranty to the original owner. Buying from the cue makers directly also allows you put the funds away during the build period if you do not have unlimited funds, because most cue makers only require a deposit. While some will certainly disagree with me on the above you will get the best bang dollar for dollar buying directly from the cues maker.

4. Buy cues that you really love, this way you will always be satisfied with your purchase. No one can predict the future of this market, however, doing good research and by not buying into hype you should do very well long term. Again I can't say it enough, research is the key to collecting anything without being educated on this subject and by relying only on what others tell you can be a very expensive mistake.


Good Luck Collecting:smile:
Click to expand...
 
calboy8686

calboy8686

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree with you runout1961..... there are investment opportunities all over the board. Your right with saying "buy the right cues and you will never loose." That's kind of like playing the stock market in speculative times..... you can make money, but you can also loose your shirt VERY fast (reason I stay out of the stock market). However, I have to correct you on one thing - Profits are realized at the time of sale, not at the time of purchase because the difference (net gain or loss) occurs at sale or exchange time. :)

runout1961 said:
Why not? Although I highly believe EVERY cue was meant to be played with, how can you say cues are not an investment?

Not ALL cues are sound investments, but if you buy the right cues, you will never lose.

A profit is made when you buy, not when you sell. If you buy right, you can't go wrong......with certain cues of course.

Edited to add: to the OP-Deno Andrews says it best; collect what you like.

I've always kept that in mind and have never been dissatisfied with any purchase(s) I've made.
Click to expand...
 
runout1961

runout1961

Ecclesiastes Ch. 12: 1-7
Silver Member
calboy8686 said:
I agree with you runout1961..... there are investment opportunities all over the board. Your right with saying "buy the right cues and you will never loose." That's kind of like playing the stock market in speculative times..... you can make money, but you can also loose your shirt VERY fast (reason I stay out of the stock market). However, I have to correct you on one thing - Profits are realized at the time of sale, not at the time of purchase because the difference (net gain or loss) occurs at sale or exchange time. :)
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Yes you are correct. But think about it, if you buy something at a good enough price, you have already made a profit just by purchasing the product. Therefore you make your profit when you buy. That is where I'm coming from with that. Obviously you do not see the profit until you sell the item. But if your into it at a good price, you know you've made money.

For instance, when I bought my Tascarella hoppe cue, I KNEW I was buying at a good price. Even when I shipped it to Pete for a complete refinish, I was still in the cue at one hell of a price. When the cue was done I sold it for a $700 profit. Then, about two weeks later I realized how good of a cue it was and bought it back. So now I am still into the cue for what I paid for it plus the refinish and I KNOW I will never lose because I bought it cheap enough.

To RRfireblade, this is a great time to collect cues as investments if you are planning on holding onto them for a while. People are dumping there cues left and right and if you have the cash it's a safe bet.....with certain cues of course.
 
calboy8686

calboy8686

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm glad I posted this, almost all the responses to this thread have confirmed a large number of thoughts I've had on investing in cues and starting a collection. Even though "cue collecting and investing/investments" can mean something different to each person, the net effect is buying and selling at either a profit or loss.

My intensions are more in the direction of having a diverse number of cues - some to play with, and a couple that will appreciate value over time. But that's not to say that the number can't grow or shrink, sometimes it's worth to give up a couple from the "clutch" to get a more valuable or "fancier" cue. Example - In order to acquire a Balabushka (one of the most desirable makers among collectors), one may have to sell or have enough assets/cues of interest in order to have the cash equivalent to make that happen.

But as manwon said "you have to research cue trends" and follow the market closely in order to really make some money at this. I prefer not to get that technical about this area because if I was going to put that much time and energy into this, I may as well play the stock market, and I would probably do much better, just because this is a VERY narrow market.

I would much rather go for those that have both the playability, AND hold value well (even if it costs a little more up front, you get the quality workmanship that will keep the value of the initial investment at a relative constant rate - market baring of course).
 
runout1961

runout1961

Ecclesiastes Ch. 12: 1-7
Silver Member
Just do what I did and buy a Gus!! You'll never go wrong with that one :thumbup:

Seriously though, it is truly a lot of fun. I like my cues to be of certain specifications and I might have a strict criteria as far as my cues go. But like I said before at the end of the day I am always satisfied with the purchase I made.

Just remember to have fun with it, collect what you like and you'll be alright. That Gina is not a bad start my friend.
 
calboy8686

calboy8686

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LOL!! I would have to build up to buying one of those. His work from what I gathered, is almost as desirable as a Balabushka. I'm in this more for fun, have some nice cues to play with and even circulate (through trade or other) with people of the community. Once I find the maker I really like.... LOOK OUT, cause I will play that maker all the time. But I also want an assortment of designs (a box cue or two, another Ginacue - fancier in time), colors, and makes. Again just for diversity. Some cues I know I'm not going to be able to afford for a long time and will have to build into them.

But thanks to you all..... I have the first 2 blue books of cues. I'm hoping they will give me more than just pictures and prices, but also some insight as to the makers as well.

I have a feeling that there is a lot to be learned from here, as well as a lot of connections to be made.
 
runout1961

runout1961

Ecclesiastes Ch. 12: 1-7
Silver Member
In my opinion Gus' cues would be more desirable. Gus made blanks for George. If that doesn't tell you how good the man was, not sure what will. But then again you can find a Gus far more easily than a Bushka so who knows. It's all personal preferance I suppose. I know that I am happy with my Gus. And, for me that is like the pinnacle of cue collecting so I am VERY satisfie with that purchase. A cue which I am very proud to own and will do my best to never have to sell it.

As far as the blue book goes, it is a great publication to look at a number of different cues from different builders. What I like the most is reading the history on different cue builders and how they got started. But the 3rd addition was published in 2005 so the values of certain cues are a bit off and not very reliable.

I have the entire trade index from the back of the blue book with all the cue builders names and contact info in pdf format. Send an email to john.ehle@kbr.com and I will send it to you if you want it.
 
calboy8686

calboy8686

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I sent you a PM. But now I'm starting to see the more detailed aspects of a true collector, you know who made the blanks for who. Does it really come down to that, or is it more of a name/reputation of a cue maker that will determine desirability and a rising value? Obviously, when one either retires or passes away the number of made cues becomes absolute and finite.
 
Cornerman

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
calboy8686 said:
Hey All,

General question about cue collecting and hopeing someone out there can give me some sound advice.


I would appreciate any and ALL advice on this..... Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
As others have said, buy what you like. It's your collection.

If you can get your hands on a copy of InsidePOOL April 09 (maybe you can download it at InsidePoolmag.com) there is an article on pool cue collectors A Collection of Collecors which might lend some insight on why others collect. Shameless backpatting and all.

Check out sites like Chris Tate's http://www.palmercollector.com or Deno Andrews' http://www.cuezilla.com

Fred
 
mamono

mamono

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
calboy8686 said:
I sent you a PM. But now I'm starting to see the more detailed aspects of a true collector, you know who made the blanks for who. Does it really come down to that, or is it more of a name/reputation of a cue maker that will determine desirability and a rising value? Obviously, when one either retires or passes away the number of made cues becomes absolute and finite.
Click to expand...

Each cue maker has aspects of their cue making that are unique in itself. George Balabushka was considered an innovator. Gus Szamboti known for superb quality and building blanks that were used by a number of cue makers during that time period. Burton Spain for his full splice blanks and floating joint, etc etc just to name a few. Each day while reading posts on AZB is like a learning experience. I always learn something new every time I log in. Name and reputation of a cue maker does make their cues more desirable and increases value because they have established themselves during their career by the spectacular workmanship, quality, and innovations!
 
calboy8686

calboy8686

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Very true mamono, just like everyone is an individual. Last night I got Volume 1 & 2 of the Blue Book Of Cues...... it's amazing to me to see the prices jump with some makers and fall to almost nothing with others one edition to the next. I need to get the most current volume and sit down with it to get an idea of what some go for these days. I'll be posting more threads soon with a single question for all to read, and hopefully respond to. It will be more on the lines of a poll, but without the defined choices..... more like a fill in.

There is method to all my madness....... I WILL GET EDUCATED ONE WAY OR ANOTHER... LOL!!
 
DogsPlayingPool

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
About the Blue Book. Obviously you must take the prices as a relative guide only. Since it is a book it is a snap shot in time while certainly the market price for cues, and for various makers, is rather fluid. Also, some of the information may not be accurate. For instance, the BB suggests that Ernie went from the script to the block lettering for his logo in 1970, but this is not the case. Ernie used the block lettering very early, on at least some of his first 100 cues. I know this for a fact and so do dealers and collectors.

But the Blue Book is a very good resource nonetheless. And you won't find so many pictures in one place anywhere else.
 
calboy8686

calboy8686

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can see that...... It's the same thing as the Kelly Blue Book (BTW - the guy who writes that doesn't know squat about cars so I really don't go by it at all). But of course it's just a guideline. Markets change, trends change, and so on..... However, I'm using that book more to plot appreciation value of certain cue makers and can use some of the info loosely to project an approximate price/value for today. Your right about Ernie's logo, they don't have that timeline correct for the block lettering.
 
nancewayne

nancewayne

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cue Collecting Advise

I still have one in stock of the 3rd Blue Book of Cues. Retail at Border's Books for $39.95. My new one $25.00.
F.Y.I.

calboy8686 said:
Very true mamono, just like everyone is an individual. Last night I got Volume 1 & 2 of the Blue Book Of Cues...... it's amazing to me to see the prices jump with some makers and fall to almost nothing with others one edition to the next. I need to get the most current volume and sit down with it to get an idea of what some go for these days. I'll be posting more threads soon with a single question for all to read, and hopefully respond to. It will be more on the lines of a poll, but without the defined choices..... more like a fill in.

There is method to all my madness....... I WILL GET EDUCATED ONE WAY OR ANOTHER... LOL!!
Click to expand...
 
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