Newbie needs advice

Buster8001 · Oct 1, 2019

It will be fine for what you want.

I'm a "serious" pool player, and I started out with a similar furniture style table. I did move to a Gold Crown, and it's not what you want from the sounds of it. Description states solid wood frame and slate with a backer. You'll be just fine.

The only thing I'll say, is you need to have it installed correctly. That's the crux of the decision. No idea who Amazon may send.

uscpsycho · Oct 1, 2019

These tables are sold on Amazon but not by Amazon.

Anyway, nobody is selling the USC version on Amazon, so I'll be ordering from a website that specializes in pool tables and gaming supplies. My guess is these guys use qualified local installers (I'm in LA) but I will make sure the install is done right even if I have to hire my own installer.

Linwood · Oct 1, 2019

It's interesting there are zero reviews on Amazon. For that price the vendor ought to be able to give you references, hopefully someone within driving distance who might let you look. Maybe you'll also get luck and find a mechanic who will install it who might go with you (for $$) and take a knowledgeable look.

I bought a table from a less known manufacturer and after the fact have discovered all the things that could have gone wrong; in fact I think I got lucky, but it has given me an appreciation for how many subtle things a manufacturer can do wrong that you will eventually regret. Getting first hand advice (rather than guesses which most here are giving) should be high on your list.

uscpsycho · Oct 1, 2019

Linwood said:
It's interesting there are zero reviews on Amazon. For that price the vendor ought to be able to give you references, hopefully someone within driving distance who might let you look. Maybe you'll also get luck and find a mechanic who will install it who might go with you (for $$) and take a knowledgeable look.

I bought a table from a less known manufacturer and after the fact have discovered all the things that could have gone wrong; in fact I think I got lucky, but it has given me an appreciation for how many subtle things a manufacturer can do wrong that you will eventually regret. Getting first hand advice (rather than guesses which most here are giving) should be high on your list.

I like the suggestion to ask for references. I'll call and see if the manufacturer will give me any. I'm not surprised there are no reviews on Amazon, I doubt many people are buying pool tables there. But I did find one online review from this past March. Sounds like they are at least using billiard specialists for installation rather than regular Joes.

I recently purchased a University of Michigan logo pool table from Holland Bar Stool Company and was delighted with the entire process. I did on-line research in advance and HBSC the best value on comparable items. Rick and the Sales team were courteous, informative and low pressure insuring I understood all the factors required to insure my final product choice would meet my expectations. The under table, retractable storage shelf was a great option for me and something I would recommend to others purchasing a pool table.

Pete Silsbee and the install team from A-Plus Billiard supply did a great job on the install and offering helpful customer instruct tips on use and maintenance.

Glenn Averill

mchnhed · Oct 1, 2019

USCPSYCO said “My guess is these guys use qualified local installers”.

That’s your first mistake.

jasonlaus · Oct 2, 2019

uscpsycho said:
You may be missing the point. I *WANT* this table because of the logos carved into the table. If it's on the pricey side, that's OK as long as it is a quality table. I just don't want to spend this kind of money on junk.

As a major USC fan with quite a few USC-related features in my house, this is going to be a conversation piece as much as anything else. And it's also the centerpiece of my den so form is as important as function.

If it isn't obvious, I'm a very casual player. Can't remember the last time I played but I'm sure I'll play more if I actually have a pool table in my house. I don't need the "best" pool table for the money but from my previous research, I know there are a lot of crappy tables out there and I'm trying to avoid buying crap. A lot of times, when companies put logos on products, they are sub-par products and I don't want to fall into that trap.

Let's say I buy a Gold Crown, for my education, what would be the benefit other than price? Thank you.

Why did you even ask if you're buying a substandard table no matter what?

RiverCity · Oct 2, 2019

jasonlaus said:
Why did you even ask if you're buying a substandard table no matter what?

surffisher2a · Oct 2, 2019

As others have said, all of these "home" type tables will not play as well as a tried and true commercial table. What I mean by this is that the rebound angles off of the cushions won't be quite right, the profile and height of the cushions might not be perfect, the speed of the table will play slow (even with good cloth) so you'll have to hit balls harder in order to get the proper reactions (which leads to bad habits).

Having said all of that if your intention is just to bang a few balls around with your friends and family this table with work perfectly fine for you. However if you really ever plan to get serious about pool and improve your game, this is not the table for you.

About 12 years ago I bought a presidential billiards table that I paid pretty good money for and thought I was buying a good table, it looks awesome but really plays like crap anymore, even with the cloth upgraded to simonis 860. It wasn't until my first night ever playing league on a diamond table that I realized how poorly my table played. After that first night of league I put my table up for sale and I am now waiting for a new diamond table to be delivered.

After playing on those diamonds for a few weeks now, I fell back in love with the game of pool. I always tried to play some of the shots I saw the pro's do on TV/Youtube but I could never get the right action off the rails, I always thought it was I just didn't have the ability. I was wrong, it was the table i was playing on (dead rails).

obviously my home table isn't exactly what you plan on purchasing, but 95% of all those home tables play pretty poorly, they are designed for aesthetics, not play-ability.

jay helfert · Oct 2, 2019

uscpsycho said:
Hello!

Years ago I almost bought a pool table and did a ton of research about pool tables (based on my join date, must have been 2014). I know there are a lot of factors to consider and I've forgotten all of it: surface types, number of pieces, surface thickness...

I'm back in the market for a pool table but this time I have my sights set on a specific pool table and if it's a good table I won't spend any time shopping around or re-educating myself. I would really appreciate it if I can get some pros and cons of this specific table - https://www.amazon.com/Minnesota-8-...11c06036315c9e36efed2675919927&language=en_US

I'll be getting it from a different vendor for $3500 but I posted the Amazon product page because some of the photos show the table's construction which may be useful to the advice I'm seeking. Additional info from the other vendor that is not on Amazon "Coordinating, embossed leather pockets with riveted nets match the look of the table and profile of the rail. The Diamond Pearl Sites are seamlessly inlaid into each of the rails for precision aim capabilities."

I love this style and if there aren't any red flags I'll buy it, but if there are I'll have to expand the scope and start learning about pool tables all over again. Would really love it if I could get some feedback on this table.

Thanks in advance! :smile:

You are basically buying a "home" style table here and not a "commercial" table like you see in poolrooms. For your purposes it should be fine. From appearances alone it looks to be a solidly built table (No particle board or plywood) and the 1" slate is a requirement you really want. I live in Los Angeles (the South Bay) and I'd love to take you to Billiards and Barstools which is located near me and has a full range of quality tables on their showroom floor. I suspect they can also get you a table with the USC logos included. They've been in business for over forty years and have good table mechanics who know how to properly set up a table. I've gone to them frequently for everything from tip repairs to table moves.

I think you are in the right price range to get a good quality home table. I'm just not sure your best move is to buy one sight unseen from a dealer you know little about (I would want to see some good references). You might get anything!
Like I said I'd be willing to go along with you and give you my own evaluation of what you're buying. Just PM me if you're interested.

GoldCrown · Oct 2, 2019

uscpsycho said:
Hello!

I love this style and if there aren't any red flags I'll buy it, but if there are I'll have to expand the scope and start learning about pool tables all over again. Would really love it if I could get some feedback on this table.

Thanks in advance! :smile:

I'll try to be objective. GoldCrowns and Diamonds are probably the best tables made. Aside from that. My buddy bought a Fisher table based on its looks and loved it. I have other friends bought tables based on price and enjoyed theirs also. The installations were ALMOST level. These guys are not serious players and could not tell the difference between the one they had and ANY table. They were strictly social players that were satisfied with their game and had no plans to improve (lessons, drill, etc).

The table you are looking at. If you want it buy it. Our opinion does not matter. Get it and enjoy it. As for me I did not know how good a GoldCrown was until I bought one.
My first table was a Gandy Hustler...pressboard frame, fuzzy cloth, brand X rails...I loved that table in spite of its flaws. At that time I could not tell the difference. I had nothing to compare it with. Good luck whatever you end up with.

Keep in mind.....The installation is everything. Most of the installers sent out are not very good. And lifetime warrantees are worthless.

GoldCrown · Oct 2, 2019

jay helfert said:
You are basically buying a "home" style table here and not a "commercial" table like you see in poolrooms. For your purposes it should be fine. From appearances alone it looks to be a solidly built table (No particle board or plywood) and the 1" slate is a requirement you really want. I live in Los Angeles (the South Bay) and I'd love to take you to Billiards and Barstools which is located near me and has a full range of quality tables on their showroom floor. I suspect they can also get you a table with the USC logos included. They've been in business for over forty years and have good table mechanics who know how to properly set up a table. I've gone to them frequently for everything from tip repairs to table moves.

I think you are in the right price range to get a good quality home table. I'm just not sure your best move is to buy one sight unseen from a dealer you know little about (I would want to see some good references). You might get anything!
Like I said I'd be willing to go along with you and give you my own evaluation of what you're buying. Just PM me if you're interested.

I would definitely take advantage of Jay's offer. You'll end up with a table that will provide great service for many years. Pool tables are not created equal. All tables look good but it's the inside that counts.

jasonlaus · Oct 2, 2019

toddgator said:
You don't have to base your table purchase on the logo that's on the table when you buy it. Felt is easily replaced by a table mechanic so if you're going to buy a table and have it installed in your house (or wherever) I'd suggest getting a good table first and foremost and then order felt with whatever design or logo you prefer to put on that. There's all kinds of crazy felt designs out there these days. Not many of them will play as well as a Simonis, Champion, or other tournament level felt, but if a specific design is what you have in mind there's all sorts of stuff out there and you'll be able to find what you want. Most mechanics can order specific cloth for you from whatever vendors they're associated with or you can purchase your own and have them install it for you. Depends on the mechanic and what they're willing to do. Just be up front with them about what you're looking for.

One thing I'd point out with regard to the type/brand of table you end up going with is that if you get something like a Gold Crown the advantage there is that you'll be more able to recoup more of your investment should you decide you don't want the table any longer down the road. Gold Crown tables are going to sell for more on the used market than anything else you're likely to find.

Ultimately, I'd say go with what you like, but if you care about such things like resell value I'd stick a Gold Crown like these guys have already suggested.

Actually, now that I'm looking closer I see where you're talking about the team stuff carved into the table. That you can't find on a GC. If that's the selling point for you and you're a casual player I'd say you'll probably be fine with that table.

He could also have the skirts on a Gold Crown, Diamond, etc. "carved" and have a much better table for a much smaller price(other than Diamond cost wise)

jasonlaus · Oct 2, 2019

Also, as far as reviews go, you are talking about reviews from people who dont know much of anything about pool tables.

Take Jay up on his offer, he's a great guy and has been around pool/pro pool his whole life including being tournament director of many, many pro events.

You could also message Realkingcobra on here, if anybody has seen one it's probably him and believe me and everybody else on here, he will be brutally honest about the table. Lol.

He's a good guy and has worked on more tables than anybody here, but he will give you the good, bad, and ugly about the table. Who knows, he may have a "favorite" table suggestion in the design you are looking for.

I cannot remember if Pete Silsby(the one who installed the table in michigan) posts on here. I've known him for quite a few years and he could give you an honest opinion also. He installs and rebuilds tables, also builds pool Cues.

mkmartin74 · Oct 2, 2019

Not sure about new but I can give you a very accurate used review. My brother bought 6 of these used from a bar that lasted only 4 mounts so they didn't have a lot of use on them. Had a professional mover take them down and move them to his bar to be set up once we put the new floors in ( all of this was done in the same town in Texas). After sitting for 3 weeks in the a/c the installer couldn't get them back together with the original hardware and pre-drilled holes. The work and materials were so cheap nothing lined up anymore. He used parts from all 6 to get 2 put back together and we had one hell of a bonfire with the remaining pieces on the grand opening. Used the cheap ass slate to line the bathroom walls for people to wright on with chalk.

For home use it would be a great table to fold laundry on!

Speedie · Oct 2, 2019

You're getting some great advice here OP.

Something to consider when making the decision is not just how you enjoy pool now, but how you might in future. I bought an American Heritage a few years ago because I was just a casual "few racks every month" player, but now that I'm taking it more seriously I regret that. For the money spent on the A.H. plus having it re-covered in Simonis 860 and having the rails re-done (rubber went hard) I could have been into a very nice Gold Crown. Live and learn.

If you can see yourself getting serious about the game in future then you may want to re-evaluate your options. Buy once cry once.

jasonlaus · Oct 2, 2019

mkmartin74 said:
Not sure about new but I can give you a very accurate used review. My brother bought 6 of these used from a bar that lasted only 4 mounts so they didn't have a lot of use on them. Had a professional mover take them down and move them to his bar to be set up once we put the new floors in ( all of this was done in the same town in Texas). After sitting for 3 weeks in the a/c the installer couldn't get them back together with the original hardware and pre-drilled holes. The work and materials were so cheap nothing lined up anymore. He used parts from all 6 to get 2 put back together and we had one hell of a bonfire with the remaining pieces on the grand opening. Used the cheap ass slate to line the bathroom walls for people to wright on with chalk.

For home use it would be a great table to fold laundry on!

Nice review :thumbup:

jimmyco · Oct 2, 2019

jay helfert said:
You are basically buying a "home" style table here and not a "commercial" table like you see in poolrooms. For your purposes it should be fine. From appearances alone it looks to be a solidly built table (No particle board or plywood) and the 1" slate is a requirement you really want. I live in Los Angeles (the South Bay) and I'd love to take you to Billiards and Barstools which is located near me and has a full range of quality tables on their showroom floor. I suspect they can also get you a table with the USC logos included. They've been in business for over forty years and have good table mechanics who know how to properly set up a table. I've gone to them frequently for everything from tip repairs to table moves.

I think you are in the right price range to get a good quality home table. I'm just not sure your best move is to buy one sight unseen from a dealer you know little about (I would want to see some good references). You might get anything!
Like I said I'd be willing to go along with you and give you my own evaluation of what you're buying. Just PM me if you're interested.

This is a great opportunity,

IMO, you would be doing yourself, family and friends a disservice not to take advantage of it.

I believe you will be getting exactly what you require and so much more.

pt109 · Oct 2, 2019

mkmartin74 said:
Not sure about new but I can give you a very accurate used review. My brother bought 6 of these used from a bar that lasted only 4 mounts so they didn't have a lot of use on them. Had a professional mover take them down and move them to his bar to be set up once we put the new floors in ( all of this was done in the same town in Texas). After sitting for 3 weeks in the a/c the installer couldn't get them back together with the original hardware and pre-drilled holes. The work and materials were so cheap nothing lined up anymore. He used parts from all 6 to get 2 put back together and we had one hell of a bonfire with the remaining pieces on the grand opening. Used the cheap ass slate to line the bathroom walls for people to wright on with chalk.

For home use it would be a great table to fold laundry on!

This seems like the bottom line on these tables.....NG

Ghosst · Oct 4, 2019

uscpsycho said:
You may be missing the point. I *WANT* this table because of the logos carved into the table. If it's on the pricey side, that's OK as long as it is a quality table. I just don't want to spend this kind of money on junk.

If it isn't obvious, I'm a very casual player. Can't remember the last time I played but I'm sure I'll play more if I actually have a pool table in my house. I don't need the "best" pool table for the money but from my previous research, I know there are a lot of crappy tables out there and I'm trying to avoid buying crap.

One important thing to remember is that this is a forum for pool players. Not average "once-in-while-if-I'm-drinking" pool players, but serious tournament and gambling players who shoot quite a bit better than your local "top dog". So the responses you get here will seem a little on the snarky side because we know what good, better, and best are in terms of tables.

We lean toward commercial units because they are, for the most part, far superior to a furniture-quality table. It's not a jab at your taste or preference at all.

Now specifically about the table you posted: I like their choice in materials from what I read. The corner braces do have very large slots which makes me wonder how much variance there is from unit to unit. The price is a little high, but you have said you like having the logos. Again, to echo others, you might find that for far less than a $1000 extra you could find a handyman or a furniture store that would be willing to rout the logos in or have a sign shop create them out of vinyl. Just make sure you see a sample of their work before you let them carve the aprons.

A furniture table is made for lighter use. A commercial table is for more serious play and players. A casual player probably won't see too much of a difference between them. Flaws will start to show the more the table is moved and used. If your house heaves in the winter, for example, you might find the slate comes apart. Leveling might be far more of a chore and not stay true for long with a lessor quality table. That we can't tell from the photos. Well, maybe Glen can, but he's going to tell you not to buy it because he rebuilds tables for a living and knows the ins and outs.

Bob Jewett · Oct 4, 2019

Ghosst said:
One important thing to remember is that this is a forum for pool players. Not average "once-in-while-if-I'm-drinking" pool players, but serious tournament and gambling players who shoot quite a bit better than your local "top dog". So the responses you get here will seem a little on the snarky side because we know what good, better, and best are in terms of tables....

When I learned to play (a little over 50 years ago) it was initially on a table from Sears on which the legs could be folded up for convenient storage. The bed was more or less flat, but we did not really understand the concept of leg levelers so we tended to tolerate roll that on a commercial table would be grounds for total destruction, as in aim full ball for a spot shot to hit it half ball.

We had fun. We even gambled on it. I managed to do most of the shots from Mosconi's booklet on it, including the masse shots.

I think the Holland table will probably be fine for the purpose. The experience of the guy in Houston is alarming, but I don't think you will be moving the table or storing it in that climate. I would watch the installers carefully to make sure everything goes together properly when it's installed. Carefully.

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