APA e-mails are up, is the APA in trouble?

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Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great post...but you know it will never happen with any of these anti-APA whiners. I did exactly what you suggested, and ran a successful APA league for 5 years, so I feel entirely qualified to answer the bashing that these fools continue to do. SBC is a well known APA basher here. He has been badmouthing APA for more than a decade, with no real substance to his accusations, aside from his personal opinion.

If the APA was as bad as he says, they wouldn't continue not only to exist, but continue to cement their place as the largest league in the world. Apparently he's never heard of the APA LO's who pay back hundreds of thousands of dollars IN CASH to their league members on a local level. This is in addition to the many thousands they pay out to the teams headed for Vegas.

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

buckshotshoey said:
Tell you what....buy an APA franchise, invest your time and money, put up with whining little *****es all the time. Show us how it is SUPPOSED to be done. But I'm sure everyone here can predict what your (and others) response to this challenge will be.
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BryanB

BryanB

Huge Balls
Silver Member
They may pay back a few thousand because they made tens of thousands.

If you ran a successful league, I'm sure you sold it for a few hundred thousand (or it wasn't successful). Tell us the percentage you PAID back to the players vs what you took in. I doubt you will.

Some of your comments make you sound like a comedian..oh yeah, you were
 
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Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LMAO So now I'm a hack. Well at least I'm a hack (in your opinion) with a ton of credentials in terms of things I have done to make pool a better sport here in the USA. What about you? Yeah, you singlehandedly rebuilt a burned down poolroom (just the facts please). Amazing...the 2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year is a hack! I've taught 1000's of students of all abilities, from beginner to pro, and 99% of them improved dramatically, and gave me kudos for it (some going on to win state, regional and national titles). You talk about history. How about the history of the APA? It was founded by two professional poolplayers who knew 40 years ago there was no money in pro pool. They tried to connect with the pros, but once again, the pros wanted everything without giving up a nickel or any of their time or effort. After a couple of years, APA went back to their original mission statement...which did not include pro pool. There isn't any amateur sport out there where the low level members are EXPECTED to understand, support and fund their sport at the professional level. Why should pool be different? When you speak of "nits" you should most definitely be looking in a mirror...because it is you who is the nit. :mad: :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

SBC said:
The man wants to come at me over my opinion. So with a minimum of effort he was exposed as a hack.

My view is that APA does not support pool AS IT SHOLUD BE. I explain myself and am met with the typical nit hourde. I'm not the one to sit for that.

Many feel as I do. That this corporation only looks out for the almighty dollar. They do nothing to promote rooms, development of the game or support professional pool.. In many areas the APA has been divisive among rooms and players alike. The prevelance of the APA leads to a dumbing down of the game. Players do not progress as they would by playing short races on Valleys in handicapped formats.
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S

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What business is it of yours how much I sold my league for? I have made it public here innumerable times how I operated my league and how my players were treated, as well as how they felt about it. If you're too lazy to search out that info, too bad for you. The only real comedian here is the one you look at in the mirror every morning. :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

BryanB said:
They may pay back a few thousand because they made tens of thousands.

If you ran a successful league, I'm sure you sold it for a few hundred thousand (or it wasn't successful). Tell us the percentage you PAID back to the players vs what you took in. I doubt you will.

Some of your comments make you sound like a comedian..oh yeah, you were
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S

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Now you're a financial expert on the APA, as well. Tell you what, Mr. BigMouth. I'll post $10,000 CASH that there isn't one single APA LO with 200 teams, making "$12-15k PER MONTH profit". Now, pull up your big boy pants and post up! Oh, and another thing...if you ran a league for three years for ZERO, who's the idiot there? Nobody works for free...even non-profit businesses make money.

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

BryanB said:
FYI, I did own a league before I moved this summer. Had it for about 3 years. I paid out approximately 75% of all money paid in. National took a portion that helped fund the national event payout and I kept enough to cover expenses plus a little.

Not sure how big your area is but it is not hard to figure out how much your LO is making. If you have a LO with let's say 200 teams (double jeopardy, Master, doubles) and they happily announce they are funding 3 teams to Vegas for Nationals. Everyone is so happy but not as happy as that LO that is profiting about $12-15k PER MONTH, some more than that. That's after they pay APA national their 20%.
I have no issue with someone making some money but to be robbing the players of this much is BS.

So go login to your APA acount, see how many teams are playing each night, cost to play each night and multiply all that by 45-48 weeks and tell me how much they are bringing in. Once you see that, you will quickly realize how much the players are losing out on.
You know why an APA franchise costs so much? Because it's a freakin cash cow for the LO

edit: I see you are not APA now
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atlas333

atlas333

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tbh

BryanB said:
They may pay back a few thousand because they made tens of thousands.

If you ran a successful league, I'm sure you sold it for a few hundred thousand (or it wasn't successful). Tell us the percentage you PAID back to the players vs what you took in. I doubt you will.

Some of your comments make you sound like a comedian..oh yeah, you were
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You're kind of an embarrassment to our fine service members who have given so much to our country.
For their sake please stop.
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DecentShot said:
That's because pool hall culture sucks and the APA is more fun. They aren't promoting anything? Interesting, because they got YOU talking about it. If Old salties who "wanna play sum" are the "history" league players don't know about? Good.
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Hold on a second.

Most of my best lessons in pool started off with "do you wanna play sum"....

Most of those lessons were about pool but, some of them carried over to other areas of my life.

Most of, if not all of the greats would have been likely to come up and say:

Wanna play sum....

Again, I get the league thing. We need em. But, lets not trash us old salties either.

Jeff
 
KRJ

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Scott Lee said:
Now you're a financial expert on the APA, as well. Tell you what, Mr. BigMouth. I'll post $10,000 CASH that there isn't one single APA LO with 200 teams, making "$12-15k PER MONTH profit". Now, pull up your big boy pants and post up! Oh, and another thing...if you ran a league for three years for ZERO, who's the idiot there? Nobody works for free...even non-profit businesses make money.

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
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Hey Scott, on top of that, many bars open their tables on league nights. So, now they are playing 10 or more games for less than $10, plus practicing before hand, and even playing after league is over. Pretty cheap night to play pool all night for under $10.

So, in essence the money they paid is what they would have paid anyways had their been no league to join and they just went out to shoot. I may not agree with all leagues, all the time, but the dues were never a concern. Whoever wants to run that headache every night, I say good luck and keep the change :)
 
L

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BryanB said:
FYI, I did own a league before I moved this summer. Had it for about 3 years. I paid out approximately 75% of all money paid in. National took a portion that helped fund the national event payout and I kept enough to cover expenses plus a little.

Not sure how big your area is but it is not hard to figure out how much your LO is making. If you have a LO with let's say 200 teams (double jeopardy, Master, doubles) and they happily announce they are funding 3 teams to Vegas for Nationals. Everyone is so happy but not as happy as that LO that is profiting about $12-15k PER MONTH, some more than that. That's after they pay APA national their 20%.
I have no issue with someone making some money but to be robbing the players of this much is BS.

So go login to your APA acount, see how many teams are playing each night, cost to play each night and multiply all that by 45-48 weeks and tell me how much they are bringing in. Once you see that, you will quickly realize how much the players are losing out on.
You know why an APA franchise costs so much? Because it's a freakin cash cow for the LO

edit: I see you are not APA now
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I doubt if we have 200 teams....may look it up sometime just for the heck of it.

Our area sends the following .

2 eight ball teams

2 9 ball teams

2 scotch doubles 8 ball teams.

2 scotch doubles 9 ball teams.

1 ladies team

1 masters team

1 jwck and jill team

We just started a jr's division so i am sure we will be sending a team or 2 from that

And i have no idea how many they send for singles.

Almost forgot ...we send a team to hawaii in the aloha division also


All that with probably less than 200 teams.

Not evey one pays dues every week.. Our area has a bounty program. Each week a few playerd are selected to have a bounty on them. If their opponent wins that night he collects the bounty and does not pay for his match th a t week.

We also have an incentive program and i am not exactly sure how it works....never had the incentive to read up on it lol...but you pay no dues for the entire session.

We also hold charity tournaments such as for st jude and cancer......called shoot for the cure.

Almost forgot...we pay no fees during tri cups or ltc's . our lo is there from thursday night to saturday night during tri cups and from thursday night until monday night during ltc's where we start at 7.00 and finish around 12.00 that night plus start at 10.0 am on satuday and sunday does not take in a dime during that time.

I do not begrudge one thin dime my lo makes.
 
Tony_in_MD

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
The number of teams you can send to vegas depends on the size of your league. You get a number of spots for each event.

I cant imagine any LO under-representing their league at the national tourney. In fact the league in my area runs doubles, women's, captains, and master tourneys to field team for nationals because the league is not large enough to support those additional divisions.

Don't think any APA LO would be in the game long if they were pocketing all the money to pay for their BMW.
 
buckshotshoey

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tony_in_MD said:
The number of teams you can send to vegas depends on the size of your league. You get a number of spots for each event.

I cant imagine any LO under-representing their league at the national tourney. In fact the league in my area runs doubles, women's, captains, and master tourneys to field team for nationals because the league is not large enough to support those additional divisions.

Don't think any APA LO would be in the game long if they were pocketing all the money to pay for their BMW.
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It's all fake news!
 
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S

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ChicagoRJ said:
Come on, get real. Why does everyone have to enjoy the game of pool as much as the most ardent pool fanatic. If folks don't like 14.1, who cares, if they don't like 1P, who cares, if they don't know who Earl is, who cares. I played softball with guys who don't know who many pro players or what teams they are on, or if they are good or bad.

But, no, we got the folks that hate 9b, the ones that hate 8b, the ones that hate LD shafts, the ones that hate jump sticks, or hate this, that or the other thing because it's not "real" pool in their opinion. It's pool, and the more folks playing the better it is for everyone.

news flash, if there were no pool leagues, there were be no more pool in general. Oh, it might be around but it would even more of a fringe sport than it is now with hundreds of thousand of folks playing in leagues.
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And folks like me could care less.
 
S

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Scott Lee said:
LMAO So now I'm a hack. Well at least I'm a hack (in your opinion) with a ton of credentials in terms of things I have done to make pool a better sport here in the USA. What about you? Yeah, you singlehandedly rebuilt a burned down poolroom (just the facts please). Amazing...the 2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year is a hack! I've taught 1000's of students of all abilities, from beginner to pro, and 99% of them improved dramatically, and gave me kudos for it (some going on to win state, regional and national titles). You talk about history. How about the history of the APA? It was founded by two professional poolplayers who knew 40 years ago there was no money in pro pool. They tried to connect with the pros, but once again, the pros wanted everything without giving up a nickel or any of their time or effort. After a couple of years, APA went back to their original mission statement...which did not include pro pool. There isn't any amateur sport out there where the low level members are EXPECTED to understand, support and fund their sport at the professional level. Why should pool be different? When you speak of "nits" you should most definitely be looking in a mirror...because it is you who is the nit. :mad: :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
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Dude...that video...you couldn't teach a frog to jump.
 
A

APA Operator

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cron said:
Of course I didn't ask them! I didn't want to confirm the simple reality you just confirmed:

A. The coders at APA are so bad that the security of the APA has to be at least as bad and everyone should be worried a data breach and watch their credit cards.

B. They lied to you and the bug is intentional.

I'm hoping for B as they have my credit cards info (which I'm now fearful is stored in plain text on some AWS buxket wide open to the world).

I'm positive that the first automobile was a mystery at first, but after 20 years of popular usage there was way too many people that understood how they worked who could dispel myths about them.

Now take a HTML checkbox. Are they hard to mess up? Yes, so much so that if you release them messed up, you did it intentionally or you seriously, seriously don't know what you're doing and shouldn't be allowed near a system that takes electronic payments. Ever noticed that these bugs always seem to happen in a way that harms you for someone else's profit, but not the other way? Hmmm... seems like "bugs" are great at generating profit. After all, it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Oh innocent APA, bless your heart.

Lastly, I don't use the "app", I use a browser (but... so an exploit on 1 would work on the other?). Go find any web developer that thinks a check box on a HTM page such as that one is bugged. Even if you have no clue how a web site works you understand how a check box works (yes, it works exactly like you think even in the code). Technically, you have to add code specifically for altering the default state of such a box. By default the box is either on or off, Javascript has to be added to toggle the boolean state of that element, or to put simply, you have to work to make it happen.
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There are other options. An unintentional bug in one place that has nothing to do with security is one of them. Perhaps the code to toggle the state was in the middle of a code block that got deleted for some other fix, and the developer just missed it. If it's generated code, that can happen easily. The bug is in both the app and the web site, so it's probably generated and got broken in whatever the code is generated from. Of course, we all know that's not as likely as your suggestions, because APA is just that dishonest... sheesh! I've known some of these people for 25+ years - they're not sneaky or dishonest. Keep the conspiracy theories coming, though. They're entertaining to those of us who know better.
 
S

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jrctherake said:
Hold on a second.

Most of my best lessons in pool started off with "do you wanna play sum"....

Most of those lessons were about pool but, some of them carried over to other areas of my life.

Most of, if not all of the greats would have been likely to come up and say:

Wanna play sum....

Again, I get the league thing. We need em. But, lets not trash us old salties either.

Jeff
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Real pool players are all degenerates to these APA snowflakes.
 
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