FargoRate for BCA Nationals?

jojopiff · Jan 7, 2016

I run a little BCA league and had a player inquire if our results were being inputted into FargoRate "because this year there was going to be a team total max." This was news to me and I just watched the CSI Podcast 17 from November 2015 and it wasn't mentioned in there. Maybe my league player just heard from a guy who heard from a guy.

But it did sound like they will be using FargoRate to some sort of degree to base their Open/Advanced/Masters divisions by using FargoRate. Did I misunderstand? If this is true, is it starting this year?

I've asked the President of our BCA league to contact whomever to get answers. Should I be using the results of our league in FargoRate? How would I get FargoRate the info? I play in the league, would that be some sort of conflict of interest?

BRussell · Jan 7, 2016

It's in the next podcast from a couple of weeks ago.

Mark Griffin · Jan 8, 2016

FargoRate in nationals

To all concerned players: info on 2016 CSI nationals and FargoRate

Please follow CSI podcasts.
Go to www.playcsipool.com
Find CSI podcasts - this will become a podcast every 1-2 weeks for next month or two

Hopefully- the 2016 tournament rules and regulations will be released by this weekend. We'll have some q & a threads started and address questions and explanations. Once understood, we believe most will agree this offer a far more accurate and much more fair placement of players and teams.

Plus we'll bring everyone up to speed on time lines of all the new other items: phone apps, tournament software - short and long term goals. And WHY we are doing this.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI, BCAPL, USAPL
702-835-2000

DunnM1 · Jan 8, 2016

Fargo Rating System

Until a system goes across all the leagues, waste of time. Our team will be going to VNEA nationals.

sbpoolleague · Jan 8, 2016

If your league uses LeagueSys, I believe match results automatically get sent to FargoRate.

If your league does not use LeagueSys, contact Mike Page for instructions on how to input your league's matches into the FargoRate system.

BuddyWing · Jan 12, 2016

Has anything been posted yet ????
I've look everywhere [ I think ]...
Just looking for more information.....

Masseyman · Jan 27, 2016

I have a few questions about the team cap.

On the web page for the 2016 BCAPL National Championships, it lists the team Fargo rating caps for the different divisions. For my first question I will take the 8-Ball team Gold division as an example.
The Team cap for the Gold division has a Fargo rating limit of 3,000, is this just for the 5 players that play each round or for the whole team?
Most teams like to bring more than 5 players for different reasons (someone gets sick, to swap out a player who is having a bad day, ect..). However, if the cap is for the whole team, all 6, 7, or 8 players, that makes it very tough to decide who to put on the team or just take your top 5 players that have a rating of 600 or less and hope (A) all of them can make it, and nobody has to cancel at the last minute or (B) no one get sick or for some other reason can't play.

Next question;
Is there a plan to track the team play to get data for the Fargo Rating system?
I understand it is easy to track the singles for Fargo data because you have one player against another player for the complete match. In the team event, the score-sheet that is turned in doesn't list who played who and who beat who, however, all teams keep that information during the match.

CSI Media · Jan 27, 2016

Masseyman said:
I have a few questions about the team cap.

On the web page for the 2016 BCAPL National Championships, it lists the team Fargo rating caps for the different divisions. For my first question I will take the 8-Ball team Gold division as an example.
The Team cap for the Gold division has a Fargo rating limit of 3,000, is this just for the 5 players that play each round or for the whole team?
Most teams like to bring more than 5 players for different reasons (someone gets sick, to swap out a player who is having a bad day, ect..). However, if the cap is for the whole team, all 6, 7, or 8 players, that makes it very tough to decide who to put on the team or just take your top 5 players that have a rating of 600 or less and hope (A) all of them can make it, and nobody has to cancel at the last minute or (B) no one get sick or for some other reason can't play.

Next question;
Is there a plan to track the team play to get data for the Fargo Rating system?
I understand it is easy to track the singles for Fargo data because you have one player against another player for the complete match. In the team event, the score-sheet that is turned in doesn't list who played who and who beat who, however, all teams keep that information during the match.

Question 1
The team limit applies to the 5 "core players" for the team. For a 5-player team, you can list up to 3 substitutes. Substitutes must be rated the same or lower than the person that they replace in any given match. This and other information is explained on the team entry forms.

Question 2
Yes, team data will be fed into FargoRate this year. This will give us much more data and better region to region connections.

Thank you for the questions!

2016 BCAPL National Championships webpage: Click here

Masseyman · Jan 27, 2016

.....This and other information is explained on the team entry forms.......

Ah, Thank you. I didn't look at the entry form.

......Yes, team data will be fed into FargoRate this year. This will give us much more data and better region to region connections.......

Great!

jburkm002 · Jan 27, 2016

Who has the time to enter in all the data from all the players and nights into a system for someone else's use? Does that person get paid to update your system? Seems every league has a different ratings system. Would it be easier to find a middle ground or take all the systems and say if your this in this league than it equals this. Seems Fargo is doing it backwards. I know I wouldn't want to spend hours a week updating someone else's system that may never apply to me.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

watchez · Jan 27, 2016

CSI News said:
Question 1
The team limit applies to the 5 "core players" for the team. For a 5-player team, you can list up to 3 substitutes. Substitutes must be rated the same or lower than the person that they replace in any given match. This and other information is explained on the team entry forms.

Question 2
Yes, team data will be fed into FargoRate this year. This will give us much more data and better region to region connections.

Thank you for the questions!

2016 BCAPL National Championships webpage: Click here

Can you explain this further Substitutes must be rated the same or lower than the person that they replace in any given match.

So let's say you are in the Open teams with a 3000 point threshold. If you have a team with a player that is a 560 and want to replace him in a round with a 570, you CANT do this even if you would remain under the 3000 point threshold?

tucson9ball · Jan 27, 2016

I like the Fargo rating system as it puts all players from different states into the same ratings. BUT, to use it for a International Pool Tournament there needs to be more data in the system, JMHO

I think the BCAPL may be jumping the gun on using the Fargo system for 2016. Once again it's just my opinion but we shall find out how it works in July.

In the mean time, to all tournament directors and leagues operators, let's get the results of matches into the system so Fargo can get ratings more accurate.

Corvette Alan · Jan 27, 2016

CSI News said:
Question 1
The team limit applies to the 5 "core players" for the team. For a 5-player team, you can list up to 3 substitutes. Substitutes must be rated the same or lower than the person that they replace in any given match. This and other information is explained on the team entry forms.

So now half way through the season you are now changing the rules and limiting the teams to only 8 players. We have a 9 player team and are being told that we have to split up if we all want to participate in the national event.

mikepage · Jan 27, 2016

jburkm002 said:
[...]Seems every league has a different ratings system. Would it be easier to find a middle ground or take all the systems and say if your this in this league than it equals this. Seems Fargo is doing it backwards. [...]

lol.... That's like asking someone who has devoted his life to designing the first commercial airplanes whether he's considered just taking the bus.

jojopiff · Jan 27, 2016

tucson9ball said:
I like the Fargo rating system as it puts all players from different states into the same ratings. BUT, to use it for a International Pool Tournament there needs to be more data in the system, JMHO

I think the BCAPL may be jumping the gun on using the Fargo system for 2016. Once again it's just my opinion but we shall find out how it works in July.

In the mean time, to all tournament directors and leagues operators, let's get the results of matches into the system so Fargo can get ratings more accurate.

This is proving to be somewhat difficult. I had a BCA person reach out to me (upon request from the President of our league) and I asked what exactly was needed. No response for 12 days and then I emailed her again exactly what she needed a couple days ago again. Still no response. Kind of an important thing...

jburkm002 · Jan 27, 2016

mikepage said:
lol.... That's like asking someone who has devoted his life to designing the first commercial airplanes whether he's considered just taking the bus.

I guess it's new. Just seems like someone designing the first commercial airplanes but asking other to fly it. Notice you didn't quote or respond to data input. Just seem like a lot of extra work so everyone can have a number instead of a ranking. Like I said. New things some times have their benefits or downfalls.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

CSI Media · Jan 27, 2016

watchez said:
Can you explain this further Substitutes must be rated the same or lower than the person that they replace in any given match.

So let's say you are in the Open teams with a 3000 point threshold. If you have a team with a player that is a 560 and want to replace him in a round with a 570, you CANT do this even if you would remain under the 3000 point threshold?

Good question! I assume you mean Mixed Teams Gold Division since there is no longer a team division named "Open."

The proper thing to do in that case is to list the 570 rated player as a "core player" for purpose of establishing the team rating. Then, the 560 rated player can substitute any or all rounds for the 570 rated player. In your scenario, because the team would remain below the team limit, there is no need to list the 560 rated player as a "core player." I hope this helps.

Corvette Alan · Jan 27, 2016

CSI News said:
Good question! I assume you mean Mixed Teams Gold Division since there is no longer a team division named "Open."

The proper thing to do in that case is to list the 570 rated player as a "core player" for purpose of establishing the team rating. Then, the 560 rated player can substitute any or all rounds for the 570 rated player. In your scenario, because the team would remain below the team limit, there is no need to list the 560 rated player as a "core player." I hope this helps.

Could he then re-sub the 570 player back in for the 560 player if some unforseen circumstance happened?

Why are you forcing paid players off my team?

Banks · Jan 27, 2016

Corvette Alan said:
Could he then re-sub the 570 player back in for the 560 player if some unforseen circumstance happened?

Why are you forcing paid players off my team?

What he's saying is just list the strongest players as the core, even though it's all the same team, if I'm reading it right. I suppose then it would just make sense to say that the highest five players can't break the limit.

jojopiff · Jan 27, 2016

Banks said:
What he's saying is just list the strongest players as the core, even though it's all the same team, if I'm reading it right. I suppose then it would just make sense to say that the highest five players can't break the limit.

This makes sense and is so easy, and the fact they're not wording it this way makes me wonder if something is amiss.

Word it: "Teams are allowed 8 players, the highest rated 5 players can't break the point total."

Why are there "core players". Do they have to play a majority or certain number of games? Matches?

FargoRate for BCA Nationals?

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