Trouble drawing the ball?

OP:

I'm not saying that you "are a troll" so, dont take the following personally because you, like others on here may end up being one of the "goto" people for help at some point. You never know....time will tell.

Your question is prime for argument starting.....lol....bait, bait... again, I'm sure that's not the case but, it's still funny to read some of the advice.



Now, lol......AZB:

I cant believe most of the advice given in this thread. Lol....I'm not saying it was bad advice, I am saying it was "wasted" advice due to the fact it was given to a "complete newb".

We all preach FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS.....on and on and on.....

Well, someone that is a PRIME CANDIDATE to develop great fundamentals comes on asking about lol....drawing a ball....LOLLOLOLOL.....

Do we (AZB) set him towards working on his fundamentals......feet, arm, shoulders, head positions, how to approach the ball, how low to get or not get, SET / PAUSE ...etc..etc...etc.....

NOPE.....we try to TELL him how low to hit the ball....etc...etc....


OMG.

jrctherake said:

OP:

I'm not saying that you "are a troll" so, dont take the following personally because you, like others on here may end up being one of the "goto" people for help at some point. You never know....time will tell.

Your question is prime for argument starting.....lol....bait, bait... again, I'm sure that's not the case but, it's still funny to read some of the advice.



Now, lol......AZB:

I cant believe most of the advice given in this thread. Lol....I'm not saying it was bad advice, I am saying it was "wasted" advice due to the fact it was given to a "complete newb".

We all preach FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS.....on and on and on.....

Well, someone that is a PRIME CANDIDATE to develop great fundamentals comes on asking about lol....drawing a ball....LOLLOLOLOL.....

Do we (AZB) set him towards working on his fundamentals......feet, arm, shoulders, head positions, how to approach the ball, how low to get or not get, SET / PAUSE ...etc..etc...etc.....

NOPE.....we try to TELL him how low to hit the ball....etc...etc....


OMG.

Click to expand...

All I said was loosen your grip and don’t practice to the point of burning out.

jrctherake said:

Do we (AZB) set him towards working on his fundamentals......feet, arm, shoulders, head positions, how to approach the ball, how low to get or not get, SET / PAUSE ...etc..etc...etc.....

NOPE.....we try to TELL him how low to hit the ball....etc...etc....


OMG.

Click to expand...

Actually, you haven't tried to tell him anything - except that everybody else is wrong.

pj
chgo

jrctherake said:

OP:



I'm not saying that you "are a troll" so, dont take the following personally because you, like others on here may end up being one of the "goto" people for help at some point. You never know....time will tell.



Your question is prime for argument starting.....lol....bait, bait... again, I'm sure that's not the case but, it's still funny to read some of the advice.







Now, lol......AZB:



I cant believe most of the advice given in this thread. Lol....I'm not saying it was bad advice, I am saying it was "wasted" advice due to the fact it was given to a "complete newb".



We all preach FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS, FUNDAMENTALS.....on and on and on.....



Well, someone that is a PRIME CANDIDATE to develop great fundamentals comes on asking about lol....drawing a ball....LOLLOLOLOL.....



Do we (AZB) set him towards working on his fundamentals......feet, arm, shoulders, head positions, how to approach the ball, how low to get or not get, SET / PAUSE ...etc..etc...etc.....



NOPE.....we try to TELL him how low to hit the ball....etc...etc....





OMG.

Click to expand...

He’s doing the Tor’s stroke drill. If he’s doing that, he probably learned that from a Zero-X Biggest Secrets DVD which covers those fundamentals visually better than we will be able to communicate through text. So it would be a bit redundant. Plus, he asked a specific question. Might as well give the relevant answer.


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MattPoland said:

He’s doing the Tor’s stroke drill. If he’s doing that, he probably learned that from a Zero-X Biggest Secrets DVD which covers those fundamentals visually better than we will be able to communicate through text. So it would be a bit redundant. Plus, he asked a specific question. Might as well give the relevant answer.

Click to expand...

For those wanting or needing to work on and improve fundamentals, lots of good resources dealing with each important area can be found here:

fundamentals resource page

online pool fundamentals tutorial

Enjoy,
Dave

Patrick Johnson said:

Actually, you haven't tried to tell him anything - except that everybody else is wrong.

pj
chgo

Click to expand...

PJ, how can you say fundamentals are wrong? That's what your saying in a nutshell.....without saying it.

Look, I've been playing, like some for a few years, I can / do beat 8, 9, 10 ball ghost regular. I have a very good 14.1 average.....yada...yadda....yadda

But, you know what I would be told if I said i was having problems with "x" part of my game?

Lolol......yep.....work on some part of my "fundamentals"....

So, why in the hell would we tell someone that says they've never played to do ANYTHING BUT fundamentals?

Search through YOUR POST......lol....you have, countless times....told very experienced players to go back to what????

Lol.... yep, FUNDAMENTALS.

BTW, I didn't say everyone was wrong, I said it was wasted...lol

MattPoland said:

He’s doing the Tor’s stroke drill. If he’s doing that, he probably learned that from a Zero-X Biggest Secrets DVD which covers those fundamentals visually better than we will be able to communicate through text. So it would be a bit redundant. Plus, he asked a specific question. Might as well give the relevant answer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Click to expand...

I understand but, sometimes 'we" have no clue what we need so, we just ask "a" question hoping to get help which is fine, heck I've done the same in the past.

I'm glad you understand what and why I said what I said.

Lol...say ^^^^^10 times real fast...

jay helfert said:

Good news and bad news for you Bryce. The good news is that you are headed in the right direction to learn how to play this game. The bad news is that you need to hit about a MILLION balls to become reasonably proficient at it. Pool is no simple game that can be masteted by reading a few books, watching some DVD's and practicing an hour or so a couple of times a week.

ALL the good players have put years into developing their games, and they continue to learn and improve constantly. Yes, even players like Shane are looking for ways to draw the ball better and be better players!

Good luck in your quest!

Click to expand...

I'm not a good player, but been playing for a long time. I learn something new almost every time I play. Tried a shot the other night I didn't think I could pull off, and managed to keep the run out going. Amazing for a simple game the things you don't know.

jrctherake said:

PJ, how can you say fundamentals are wrong? That's what your saying in a nutshell.....without saying it.

Look, I've been playing, like some for a few years, I can / do beat 8, 9, 10 ball ghost regular. I have a very good 14.1 average.....yada...yadda....yadda

But, you know what I would be told if I said i was having problems with "x" part of my game?

Lolol......yep.....work on some part of my "fundamentals"....

So, why in the hell would we tell someone that says they've never played to do ANYTHING BUT fundamentals?

Search through YOUR POST......lol....you have, countless times....told very experienced players to go back to what????

Lol.... yep, FUNDAMENTALS.

BTW, I didn't say everyone was wrong, I said it was wasted...lol

Click to expand...

OP asked for help with drawing the ball, so who are we to redirect and answer a question that he didn’t ask?

why not just try and help him with his request?

RichSchultz said:

OP asked for help with drawing the ball, so who are we to redirect and answer a question that he didn’t ask?

why not just try and help him with his request?

Click to expand...

Ok. I stand corrected!

Patrick Johnson said:

She should be starting out with low speed, short distance draw shots anyway. It'll teach her that draw isn't about power.





Try using a striped ball to show where she needs to hit (near the lower edge of the horizontal stripe) vs. where she actually hits (check chalk marks afterward). I bet you'll both be surprised how scattered her "shot grouping" is - and this is the fundamental problem.



I doubt you'll have much luck until she stops moving her elbow.



pj

chgo

Click to expand...

Yeah, I tried to demonstrate to her that a person can draw a long way without hitting the ball hard.

The striped ball is a good idea for visual effect. I was showing her how low that I could hit the cueball without miscuing, but many times she just started to scoop under the ball.

You're right. I don't think much of anything will work until I can get her to stop dropping her elbow though.



_______

Bryce1552 said:

Thank you everyone who has chimed in so far, I appreciate all the feedback and I finally got a chance to upload some video's excuse the quality I C-clamped my phone to a pool cue but I tried to provide good angles for evaluating my stroke.

I was shocked to see how different what I thought I was doing to what I was doing when I looked at it from an outside perspective was. one thing I notice for sure is I need to STAY DOWN after taking the shot and follow through definitely comes up short at times.

There's a LOT to work on and a mountain of information it feels at times but I'm only a few baby steps into my learning experience so I'm open to any and all feedback. I was unable to get my footwork into the shot unfortunately and I made some pretty dumb miss or two and some miscues where it almost seemed like my stroke scooped the ball.

The first video im just shooting balls into the far pockets as per tor lowrys drill and just trying to focus on the feel of my stroke/stance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08g-QX7dqoY

The second video is me practicing my draw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmrea4qoA04

The third is me from a second angle attempting more draw shots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L64PsGnOeLc

I'm reaching out during my early stages in hopes to avoid what everyone seems to reference in my reading so far that starting off with bad habits can cost you thousands of hours down the road. I enjoy learning and I enjoy improving my intentions are just to be a good student of the game and improve over time nothing more than that.

Any feedback is welcome on ANYTHING you see in the video and any suggestions would be greatly appreciated for drills or other practice techniques

Click to expand...

Since you were willing to put yourself out there, I thought I’d do the same and share advice/feedback with my own video, knowing that opens myself up to a lot of criticism on my own fundamentals. So be it, this is for you.

I’ll also preface that I’m considered a strong C player (nearing B). There are lots of strong B, strong A, and semi-pro players on this forum. So take my advice with that in mind.

LAST COMMENT: I only watched video 1 (in full) and 3 (in full). Video 2 had a broken link before I started recording.

https://youtu.be/Hdrm6rAWeDM


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Heres what I see.
Slide the hand that swings the cue forward about two inches.
Widen your feet a bit so you can bend lower over the shot
(this should put your cue on a more level plane)
Slow backswing, pause, accelerate smoothly through the ball like your trying to hit the object ball with the tip( figuratively).
Keep in mind I'm no coach, just some schmuck who loves pool.
Drill for draw. Place the cueball and object ball about 6in. to a foot apart in the middle of the table. Scratch in one side, object ball in the other. Make it harder as you get better at it.
Wishing you good luck!

Edit- go into the youtube wormhole of Barry Stark.
Good info there

You look tall....How tall are you?

Here is what I see:

1. I don't like the way you line up the shot With Your cue. Your hand is so far in front of your hips, then you take huge steps forward With both legs and end up too close to the table.

RECOMENDED FIX:
I'd rather see you keep your cue hand on your hip. Walk towards the shot line and plant your right foot on the shot line, then step out and forward With Your left foot. Slightly wider than shoulder Width apart and With the heel of the left foot as far forward as the toes on your right. YOU MUST NOT MOVE YOUR RIGHT FOOT AFTER THIS! You may have to do this With the cuetip some distance away from the cue ball, otherwise you'll end up to close, like you do now. You''ll figure this distance out. You can still keep the cue tip on the line,

You then slide forward into the shot With Your bridge hand. It's important to slide the bridgehand into position, don't just put it Down. Give yourself every chance to get it on the shot line. Another way to achieve this is to put your cue in front of your face With the bridgehand on the cue and then go down, watching the cue and the shotline. Even if you don't do any of these Things, at least pay careful attention to the placement of the bridgehand.

The weight should be slightly forward when you're down. It's ok to bend both your legs, especially since you seem like a tall fellow, or if I'm mistaken in assuming you're tall, it still feels more comfortable for some to do that. In snooker we like to keep the right leg straight and braced, but the table bed is higher off the ground on these tables. You may want to look up 4 point contact. I recommend videos by Barry Stark.

2. Your cue hand is behind perpendicular to the ground at the moment you strike Your cueball. This is very bad. This will rob you of both Power and Precision. But this all stems from your error in stepping in. Once you get the distance to the table right, it should be easy to fix this. Even if you don't listen to anything else I say, at least make sure to adjust your stance a bit to make this happen. It's near impossible to play a good game With the hand behind perpendicular, and you'll especially struggle With Draw shots. Your cue will dip, causing you to scoop the ball.

3. What I like:
You take Your time, which is good.
You stay quite still on the shot, especially for a beginner.
You are smart not to put too much Power into the shot too soon. Please do not try to run before you can walk. The Power will come naturally, once you learn to relax your arm and let the cue do the work. That may seem abstract now, but you'll understand what I mean with time.

4. All in all, this isn't too bad, but the stance (and if not that AT LEAST THE CUE HANDS POSITION) does need an urgent fix. If you don't believe me, find a competent instructor near you, I'm sure there is someone qualified. If there are none, or you don't have the money for it, watch the Barry stark lesson videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRD10tybtIY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHBTw9K-qfI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj4LkJLVr6s&t=1230s