Ivory Ferrule - Pro's/Con's

R

rhncue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This problem pops up every time squirt or deflection are brought up. The problem is two people are usually arguing about deflection but they don't make it clear to each other what deflection they are talking about. The cue ball deflecting off of the shaft or the shaft deflecting off of the cue ball. Others try to say that mass at the end of a cue makes no difference in deflection. These same people will argue that the world is 6000 years old and the universe and world were made in 6 days and that evolution was born in the mind of atheists. It actually is a scientific fact as Newton's 3 laws of relativity prove.

I once watched Jim Buss, a Boeing NASA aircraft engineer demon-straight deflection. He put the cue ball near the rail and near the pocket and shot it into the far corner pocket using extreme side english. He then wrapped some lead wire around the ferrule and shot the exact same shot and missed the pocket by more than 18". Newton knew what he was talking about!

Dick
 
Lexicologist71

Lexicologist71

Rabid Schuler fanatic
Silver Member
A different ferrule should not be able to give you more spin. Eccentricity of impact causes spin. A softer tip *might* be able to give more spin due to chalk adhesion allowing the player to hit the cue ball even farther off center. Getting more spin with a different tip hitting in the same place is wishful thinking.
 
D

danutz

Banned
I will concede that scientificaly i'm wrong, but my 30 years of playing experience, and the 100's of years of other players experience tells me i'm right too. Just like the person that is diagnosed with terminal cancer, and has a tumor the size of a grapefruit one day, and on the next dr visit, they can't find any cancer anywhere. They can't explain that one bit. Ivory is one of nature's many phenomenas that just can't be duplicated by man. All the best things about cues come from nature, and to me at least, is what makes them so special, i dare say, almost magical.:thumbup: The pros of ivory far out weigh the cons for ferrule material. Ivory is the best, and then there's the rest. It's that simple. For those that refuse to have ivory in their cue, i recomend ivorine-3. It's the closest i've found to ivory, as far as the hit goes anyway.
 
manwon

manwon

"WARLOCK 1"
Silver Member
Dirtbmw20 said:
Never had a real ivory ferrule or ivory joint on any of my cues. What are the pro's and con's of having an ivory ferrule ?? What is so special about having a real ivory ferrule ?? Are there any advantages and/or dis-advantages to having a real ivory ferrule ??
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I have played with Ivory ferrules all my life, and I love them. But, I suspect you question comes down to personal preferance. I think you have to try one out to see if it is for you or not.
 
conetip

conetip

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The biggest disadvantage with Ivory is customs.
When traveling internationally, Ivory products is just one hassle that you do not want to be dealing with unless you have the certificate with it.Even then, you have to declare it and take longer through the process.
As for hit, feel etc, that is up to the individual.
My take is at the turn of 1900, an Ivory ferrule made sense as plastics and composites did not exist in the day.
 
DogsPlayingPool

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
manwon said:
I have played with Ivory ferrules all my life, and I love them. But, I suspect you question comes down to personal preferance. I think you have to try one out to see if it is for you or not.
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Agreed, that's exactly what it is. I doubt many that play with ivory will claim it is the superior performing material for everyone and you will jump up a ball and a half by switching to it. It's more a preference for the feel, looks and ease of maintenance (never had one crack, and they clean up real easy).
 
F

fugdbdt

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
danutz said:
Just the opposite.
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I like ivory as well. However if you are correct on this, i believe you just put predator out of business. If i understand there theory, the 10 pie laminates were to interrupt grain directionality and add strength to the ferrule end so they could hollow the first 5'' and add the strongest, lightest and smallest ferrule possible. Some stuff called Maxlite on there newest shaft. The ones i have used are pretty impressive. Of 15 materials tested, ivory and ivorine4 tested most heavy. That's one of the things that gives ivory a distintive hit. There are alot of reasons to enjoy ivory.
Personally i would have to hear more on the deflection argument.
 
D

danutz

Banned
fugdbdt said:
I like ivory as well. However if you are correct on this, i believe you just put predator out of business. If i understand there theory, the 10 pie laminates were to interrupt grain directionality and add strength to the ferrule end so they could hollow the first 5'' and add the strongest, lightest and smallest ferrule possible. Some stuff called Maxlite on there newest shaft. The ones i have used are pretty impressive. Of 15 materials tested, ivory and ivorine4 tested most heavy. That's one of the things that gives ivory a distintive hit. There are alot of reasons to enjoy ivory.
Personally i would have to hear more on the deflection argument.
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Admittedly, i am wrong on this. I guess i like a little deflection with my ivory:D I still say that the deflection is negligable to anything but a robot, and i'd take my straight grained, high ring count ivory ferruled shaft over any "LD" shaft out there. Science is best used between the rails, in the form of geometry. I wish they'd leave it out of cues, i like my cues au-natural as i can get:thumbup:
 
L

LVBallBreaker

Registered
hello,
I''m new here. What a great resource. In all my years in playing pool I never knew this place existed. I need some ivory ferrules. Can anyone steer me in the right direction?
 
jwe711

jwe711

The Great Cue Masters...!
Silver Member
I like Ivory ferrules on all my cues...

I believe that they do hit harder...and I get a good feel of what I'm telling the cue ball to do...

Temperature change is the largest enemy of causing splits and breaking up of the ivory ferrules, along with improper installation of tips onto the ivory ferrules.

Each ivory ferrule installed, should have a fiber pad installed between the tip and ivory, due to the expansion of the tip at the point of impact with the cue ball, it will cause expansion of the leather tip, and the splitting of the ivory ferrule.

When a tip is new and tall, it may be ok, to play without a pad...as the expansion of the leather is not as much at the base of the glue line between the ivory ferrule and tip...but as the tip gets shallower/closer to the ivory, the expansion of the leather upon impact will split the ivory, due to the expansion of the leather, that is, if it does not have the fiber pad. Softer tips will create a greater amount of expansion, and without a pad, will also cause a greater propensity to split the ivory ferrule, again, if there is no fiber pad between.

just my 2 cents...

jwe
 
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Q

Quesports

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
rhncue said:
This problem pops up every time squirt or deflection are brought up. The problem is two people are usually arguing about deflection but they don't make it clear to each other what deflection they are talking about. The cue ball deflecting off of the shaft or the shaft deflecting off of the cue ball. Others try to say that mass at the end of a cue makes no difference in deflection. These same people will argue that the world is 6000 years old and the universe and world were made in 6 days and that evolution was born in the mind of atheists. It actually is a scientific fact as Newton's 3 laws of relativity prove.

I once watched Jim Buss, a Boeing NASA aircraft engineer demon-straight deflection. He put the cue ball near the rail and near the pocket and shot it into the far corner pocket using extreme side english. He then wrapped some lead wire around the ferrule and shot the exact same shot and missed the pocket by more than 18". Newton knew what he was talking about!

Dick
Click to expand...

Good One Dick, For anyone that does not know about Jim Buss his bio is linked here for your reading pleasure. http://www.jimbuss.com/bio.htm
 
Lexicologist71

Lexicologist71

Rabid Schuler fanatic
Silver Member
...and I get a good feel of what I'm telling the cue ball to do...

Actually, you're getting a feel of what you already told the cue ball. By the time you actually feel it, the cue ball is already gone.
 
Alex7462

Alex7462

Registered
jwe711 said:
I like Ivory ferrules on all my cues...

I believe that they do hit harder...and I get a good feel of what I'm telling the cue ball to do...

Temperature change is the largest enemy of causing splits and breaking up of the ivory ferrules, along with improper installation of tips onto the ivory ferrules.

Each ivory ferrule installed, should have a fiber pad installed between the tip and ivory, due to the expansion of the tip at the point of impact with the cue ball, it will cause expansion of the leather tip, and the splitting of the ivory ferrule.

When a tip is new and tall, it may be ok, to play without a pad...as the expansion of the leather is not as much at the base of the glue line between the ivory ferrule and tip...but as the tip gets shallower/closer to the ivory, the expansion of the leather upon impact will split the ivory, due to the expansion of the leather, that is, if it does not have the fiber pad. Softer tips will create a greater amount of expansion, and without a pad, will also cause a greater propensity to split the ivory ferrule, again, if there is no fiber pad between.

just my 2 cents...

jwe
Click to expand...

I've never used ivory on any of my cues personally, but I've taken a couple of hits with one from a friend's cue recently and I liked the feedback. It's a great point you made regarding the necessity of the pad between the tip and ferrule. However, I've also seen cues with pads placed between the bottom of the ferrule and shaft. Is that for added softness of the hit, or just to make the ferrule stand out more?
 
snipershot

snipershot

Go ahead.....run for it.
Silver Member
Nothing hits like ivory. Nothing. The closest ive found has been deer or moose antler. Man made materials are stronger and more likely to survive the abuse players give em, but the hit of ivory has yet to be produced by anything man made. Juma, elforyn, micarta, etc all hit great, but not like ivory.

Joe
 
jwe711

jwe711

The Great Cue Masters...!
Silver Member
Alex7462 said:
I've never used ivory on any of my cues personally, but I've taken a couple of hits with one from a friend's cue recently and I liked the feedback. It's a great point you made regarding the necessity of the pad between the tip and ferrule. However, I've also seen cues with pads placed between the bottom of the ferrule and shaft. Is that for added softness of the hit, or just to make the ferrule stand out more?
Click to expand...

I think that a pad between the ferrule and shaft is more for cosmetics...rather than having an applicable purpose...(though I'm sure it alters the hit)...kinda like the extra layers on the new Pechauer cues...I'm not sure what benefits (pros or cons), that the extra layers provide about the hit...but, I'm sure they have done their homework and they decided it was a good improvement to their hit of their cues...
 
juspooln

juspooln

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One of the great advantages of having that fiber pad there is, when having your tip replaced, the tip pad is getting refaced and losing material, not your high dollar ferrule.
 
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