Why is slow nap cloth no longer used?

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I don't think cloth affects skids.
Bet me something on it��
How would we settle a bet about it?

It the surface of the cloth has enough friction contact on the base of the ball that prevents it from sliding first, and insists on being forced to roll first in order to move it from the position the ball is sitting in, that resistance is what causes the cue ball to climb up on the object ball, because for a split second the cue ball has impacted against an immovable object.
It's extra friction between the two balls that causes the CB to "climb" the OB - the same ball/ball friction that causes the "extra throw" we call skids. In fact, the same friction that causes normal throw, just more of it (because of chalk or other stuff between the balls).

If the object ball is allowed to slide from its position first, before it starts to roll, the friction of sitting on the cloth is out of play. Clean, waxed balls present no sitting friction, and slide before rolling.
Clean waxed balls also have less friction between them...

pj
chgo
 
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realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
How would we settle a bet about it?


It's extra friction between the two balls that causes the CB to "climb" the OB - the same ball/ball friction that causes the "extra throw" we call skids. In fact, the same friction that causes normal throw, just more of it (because of chalk or other stuff between the balls).

If the object ball is allowed to slide from its position first, before it starts to roll, the friction of sitting on the cloth is out of play. Clean, waxed balls present no sitting friction, and slide before rolling.[.quote]
Clean waxed balls also have less friction between them...

pj
chgo

In playing pool for more than 50 years, as well as working on pool tables, and all sorts of cloth over the last 38 years, one thing I've noticed over the years is balls skid more on todays cloth than they ever did on the Steven's 22oz Superweave cloth used during the 50's through the mid 80's, that's a fact.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
In playing pool for more than 50 years, as well as working on pool tables, and all sorts of cloth over the last 38 years, one thing I've noticed over the years is balls skid more on todays cloth than they ever did on the Steven's 22oz Superweave cloth used during the 50's through the mid 80's, that's a fact.
I respect your experience - but I can't think of a consistent explanation for your observations. Either I'm wrong or you're seeing something else that looks like skid to you.

pj
chgo
 

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
Calling DrDave and requesting an official video on ball skids on various cloths.

Someone please send that man some cloth.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Calling DrDave and requesting an official video on ball skids on various cloths.

Someone please send that man some cloth.

Various cloths? Stevens is not available to test ball skid on today, so how do you suppose that cloth testing be done, no other cloth today is like it😎
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Calling DrDave and requesting an official video on ball skids on various cloths.

Someone please send that man some cloth.
It might have been Dave who theorized recently that balls might pick up more static electricity from some cloths, causing chalk dust to cling to them and more skids to happen as a result of that.

pj
chgo
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I never played on the old cloth, so can only go by what I heard...

But I heard Grady either on Accu-Stats, or when he was an active member on the various online forums, say many times that the old equipment never skidded. For sure this was the old cloth of his era, but might have also included old pre-phenolic balls (Ivory?). So I don't recall if he said it was explicitly the old cloth, the old balls, or both together, that resulted in no skids.
 

dnschmidt

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The change from slow to fast cloth completely changed the way 9-ball is played. When I started playing pool 9-ball was a draw stoke game. Draw was used on just about every shot. Then the 860 came out and completely changed the game to a follow game. If you watch the pros today it's 90% follow and 10% draw. In the old days these percentages were reversed.
 

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Could it be that the old cloth had more room for the chalk dust to hide? Or possibly the extra friction from the cloth kept the balls cleaner? Sort of like how so many players today spin the cue ball clean along the end rail prior to breaking?

Something may have been different but I'm guessing the physics of what actually causes a skid hasn't changed a bit.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Could it be that the old cloth had more room for the chalk dust to hide? Or possibly the extra friction from the cloth kept the balls cleaner? Sort of like how so many players today spin the cue ball clean along the end rail prior to breaking?

Something may have been different but I'm guessing the physics of what actually causes a skid hasn't changed a bit.

Not even close, just ask Allen Hopkins, Nick Varner, Mike Segal, Buddy Hall, or any other top pro player from the mid 80's and back.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm just throwing something out there:
Could it be that the old cloth had more room for the chalk dust to hide? Or possibly the extra friction from the cloth kept the balls cleaner? Sort of like how so many players today spin the cue ball clean along the end rail prior to breaking?

Something may have been different but I'm guessing the physics of what actually causes a skid hasn't changed a bit.

To which RKC says:
Not even close, just ask Allen Hopkins, Nick Varner, Mike Segal, Buddy Hall, or any other top pro player from the mid 80's and back.

???What's not even close exactly and what am I supposed to ask those players?

Then the voice of reason chimes in:
The first question for Sigel should be whether throw exists.

pj
chgo

And RKC again:
What does that have to do with the subject topic?

Significantly more than your response to my post. Oh the irony.
 
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