Buddy Hall liked Stevens back in the day.
Why is slow nap cloth no longer used?
- Thread starter justnum
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Buddy Hall liked Stevens back in the day.
That's not the same as slow rolling a ball to make it, and get position.
You left out my favorite....not that I’m telling anybody what to play on.
I love fast bed cloth with not so speedy rails...rubber like the old Anniversaries or GCs.
Soren Sogard came out with a carom table that was fabulous years ago....
...then Verhoven came out with a similar table but with slower rails...
...the players I knew liked the Verhoven better because the slightly slower rails gives
more ‘dwell’ time when you spin off a rail, allowing whitey more angles.
The famous Rack in Detroit had Anniversaries with Granito cloth that was a bit faster than
760 Simonis....banks could be made that would be impossible on fast rails or slow cloth.
I've seen it Russ, although Alex will also frequently use drag draw (which some call drag follow, a shot in which the cue ball is hit below center) on this shot, too. In contrast, Efren was a little more likely to slow roll a shot of this sort than Alex. Shane played this shot , if memory serves, in Stage 2 of the China Open and hit it like a charm at a key moment.
Even ignoring the potential roll off of the cue ball on its way to the object ball, a great danger in slow rolling a ball is that even the tiniest bit of unintended English is enough to cause a miss, so it takes the very straightest and purest of strokes to execute even if a table is playing true. The slow roll shot is feared by most top pros for good reason. John Ervolino, one pocket legend himself, used to say that one thing that impressed him about Reyes was what he could do with very slow speed shots.
They just did that!
As it happens, they did speed up baseball this year. Basically playing with a juiced ball. Everybody can hit home runs. They thought the fans would like it. The fans ain't fooled when they see nobodies hitting home runs left and right.
Just for chits and grins I choked up on my cue and played an entire session bunting the balls around on today's cloth playing on a nine foot Diamond. Never felt any lack of speed or power.
Somebody had some tables that had been in mothballs since the eighties. They set them up in a pub, cloth and all. Damned cloth would cut your fingers it was so abrasive. Funny thing though, I played like I did in the eighties. I don't want a return to the eighties cloth but I do think a slower speed than we have now would be nice.
Hu
As it happens, they did speed up baseball this year. Basically playing with a juiced ball. Everybody can hit home runs. They thought the fans would like it. The fans ain't fooled when they see nobodies hitting home runs left and right.
Just for chits and grins I choked up on my cue and played an entire session bunting the balls around on today's cloth playing on a nine foot Diamond. Never felt any lack of speed or power.
Somebody had some tables that had been in mothballs since the eighties. They set them up in a pub, cloth and all. Damned cloth would cut your fingers it was so abrasive. Funny thing though, I played like I did in the eighties. I don't want a return to the eighties cloth but I do think a slower speed than we have now would be nice.
Hu
Yeah.. I can see having to do that on tight pockets. If you power up and try stun run-through on a tight table with slightly worn cloth, you're gonna have a bad day..
But I could have sworn Alex got rid of a lot of that once he started playing more snooker? His matches I saw after that, he very much looked like a snooker player playing pool, (but better position) as he was basically stunning everything in.
I started playing in the 90's and all the rooms I went to had either 760 or 860. I don't think I've ever played on "real pool player quality" slow nap cloth.
UNLESS, that is the stuff they put on Valley bar tables at dive bars? Or the stuff they put on junk home tables in the past 30 years. Is that what slow nap cloth is that you guys are talking about?
UNLESS, that is the stuff they put on Valley bar tables at dive bars? Or the stuff they put on junk home tables in the past 30 years. Is that what slow nap cloth is that you guys are talking about?
Yeah.. I can see having to do that on tight pockets. If you power up and try stun run-through on a tight table with slightly worn cloth, you're gonna have a bad day..
I'll have to defer to you on this, Russ. I may have snoozed that Alex made this adjustment when he got into playing more snooker. No doubt, the stun shot is used more often by snooker players, who are more eager than pool players to avoid the use of English.
crapnap
A playing buddy of mine referred to that stuff you are talking about as crapnap. Nails it pretty close. I don't know what the old slow directional cloth was, I think mostly wool, but I would say it was every bit the equal if not superior to any cloth we are playing on now. It didn't go away because it was inferior quality. I think this new cloth was both cheaper and more popular with the bangers. Most places have a lot more bangers than pool players.
Hu
A playing buddy of mine referred to that stuff you are talking about as crapnap. Nails it pretty close. I don't know what the old slow directional cloth was, I think mostly wool, but I would say it was every bit the equal if not superior to any cloth we are playing on now. It didn't go away because it was inferior quality. I think this new cloth was both cheaper and more popular with the bangers. Most places have a lot more bangers than pool players.
Hu
The old thick cloth WAS cheaper., Hu
There was quality cloth around...but usually at the better rooms.
Baker’s in Tampa,,,late 60s...I played 9-ball on carom cloth...loved it.
There was a lot of Mali 821 around...little better quality...but directional nap.
...and I always thought directional didn’t belong on any billiard table....
...go to the trouble of making a level table...then guarantee it won’t roll straight?
I liked the slow cloth on bar tables.
1. You had to knock the ever loving crap out of the break to make balls.
2. Always lots of clusters to deal with. This was always one of my strengths as a player, i.e. how to deal with difficult tables.... Where to leave the opponent so they could not improve their position, etc.
You have to be SO precise in your patterns when playing barbox eight ball on high nap cloth. Love it.
Yup!
The tables didn't roll straight. They rolled in at the foot and out at the head best I recall. There was usually one gaff table in a hall that had the cloth "accidentally" put on backwards to give the local a running start against a traveler. The weave was pronounced enough that if you slow rolled a shot across the table you had to allow for the railroad tie effect. Those clothes soaked up moisture like a sponge I believe and you had to hit a ball to move it, not much patty caking in play.
This cloth was most likely to be found in old pool halls that were long and narrow, high ceilinged, and quiet. Special places where I cut my teeth. I associate the cloth with the rest of the ambience. Besides that, it just seems like it was more fun when we considered cloth roll. It was consistent between tables which is far different from a table that isn't level. Also, understanding the cloth was one of the first things that separated me from the average teen. Fun to go on campus(LSU) at fourteen or fifteen and rob the college kids trying to rob me! A dime a rack, a nickle tip if you weren't a jerk. Giving the rack boy a quarter was being a big spender!
If I had a man cave it would be very similar including a ten foot table. I liked the classy old places. The family center type halls are bright, clean, friendly, but somehow they just aren't pool halls. They don't have class and history.
Yep, I have lived long enough to be an old grump! There was a time when I was just a young grump.
Hu
The old thick cloth WAS cheaper., Hu
There was quality cloth around...but usually at the better rooms.
Baker’s in Tampa,,,late 60s...I played 9-ball on carom cloth...loved it.
There was a lot of Mali 821 around...little better quality...but directional nap.
...and I always thought directional didn’t belong on any billiard table....
...go to the trouble of making a level table...then guarantee it won’t roll straight?
The tables didn't roll straight. They rolled in at the foot and out at the head best I recall. There was usually one gaff table in a hall that had the cloth "accidentally" put on backwards to give the local a running start against a traveler. The weave was pronounced enough that if you slow rolled a shot across the table you had to allow for the railroad tie effect. Those clothes soaked up moisture like a sponge I believe and you had to hit a ball to move it, not much patty caking in play.
This cloth was most likely to be found in old pool halls that were long and narrow, high ceilinged, and quiet. Special places where I cut my teeth. I associate the cloth with the rest of the ambience. Besides that, it just seems like it was more fun when we considered cloth roll. It was consistent between tables which is far different from a table that isn't level. Also, understanding the cloth was one of the first things that separated me from the average teen. Fun to go on campus(LSU) at fourteen or fifteen and rob the college kids trying to rob me! A dime a rack, a nickle tip if you weren't a jerk. Giving the rack boy a quarter was being a big spender!
If I had a man cave it would be very similar including a ten foot table. I liked the classy old places. The family center type halls are bright, clean, friendly, but somehow they just aren't pool halls. They don't have class and history.
Yep, I have lived long enough to be an old grump! There was a time when I was just a young grump.
Hu
The table I play on every Sunday has Simonis cloth on it, but it is not 860...it is something slower.
There used to be a separate area in Brian's that had two tables that were always used for money games. This table is one of them and it used to have 860 on it. I think the owner decided to use something "cheaper", so it has whatever is on it now.
Whatever it is, I like it better than 860. Some people think it is too "slow", compared to some of the other tables. They are used to "bunting" balls and not having to "stroke" balls around in order to travel long distances with the cue ball. I have NO PROBLEM at all on this table. Once you get the table speed down, it's time to "let the dogs out".
The fast cloth and rails have screwed the game up, IMO. It has become something akin to "pinball" or "pachinko". Give me "old school" every day of the week.
There used to be a separate area in Brian's that had two tables that were always used for money games. This table is one of them and it used to have 860 on it. I think the owner decided to use something "cheaper", so it has whatever is on it now.
Whatever it is, I like it better than 860. Some people think it is too "slow", compared to some of the other tables. They are used to "bunting" balls and not having to "stroke" balls around in order to travel long distances with the cue ball. I have NO PROBLEM at all on this table. Once you get the table speed down, it's time to "let the dogs out".
The fast cloth and rails have screwed the game up, IMO. It has become something akin to "pinball" or "pachinko". Give me "old school" every day of the week.
860 is the slowest pool cloth they make. You in Hawaii? I would imagine its kinda humid there. I live in Okla and Simonis plays slower here due to the humid air.
Here's a question for all you talking a out old school cloth, as if most of you think you know something....LOL
Which old cloth are you refering to, is it Mali, Steven's, Warren, Charles House, Brunsco1, Championship, Simonis? Were any of you aware of Simonis producing a rayon backed cloth, like the rubber backed bar table cloth as I use to refer to it. All these cloths played much differently from each other, so which cloth played so slow as you guys put it, that superman couldn't even get a decent break on a rack of 8 ball????
Which old cloth are you refering to, is it Mali, Steven's, Warren, Charles House, Brunsco1, Championship, Simonis? Were any of you aware of Simonis producing a rayon backed cloth, like the rubber backed bar table cloth as I use to refer to it. All these cloths played much differently from each other, so which cloth played so slow as you guys put it, that superman couldn't even get a decent break on a rack of 8 ball????
I'm sure we're fixin' to find out.
I'm sure we're fixin' to find out.
I doubt it, most players had no idea what they were playing on back then. But Steven's was the choice cloth for major tournaments at the time, and was second to none in my opinion, and still would e today if it was still being produced.
Thought you were going to say which was slowest. What happened to Stevens? They just fold up or what? UD: Did a lil search and found that the JP StevensCo. got bought out in 1988. Union troubles got the best of them. Apparently the movie "Norma Rae" was based on stuff that happened in a Stevens mill.
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I never minded the speed 'cause that's all there was back when. What i didn't like was the pilling(little fur balls) that would deflect a ball. You had to brush that stuff a lot. I think 860-speed cloth is just about right.