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Bavafongoul
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11-15-2013, 11:56 AM

Yes....wood needs to be aged......talk to a wood craftsman...today's technologies do not accelerate the process with the same results.

"When wood is used as a construction material, whether as a structural support in a building or in woodworking objects, it will absorb or desorb moisture until it is in equilibrium with its surroundings. Equilibration (usually drying) causes unequal shrinkage in the wood, and can cause damage to the wood if equilibration occurs too rapidly. The equilibration must be controlled to prevent damage to the wood. If dried too quickly, wood shrinks much at the surface, compressing its damp interior."

"Wood drying may be described as the art of ensuring that gross dimensional changes through shrinkage are confined to the drying process. Ideally, wood is dried to that equilibrium moisture content as will later (in service) be attained by the wood. Thus, further dimensional change will be kept to a minimum.
It is probably impossible to completely eliminate dimensional change in wood, but elimination of change in size may be approximated by chemical modification. For example, wood can be treated with chemicals to replace the hydroxyl groups with other hydrophobic functional groups of modifying agents (Stamm, 1964). "

"Among all the existing processes, wood modification with acetic anhydride has been noted for the high anti-shrink or anti-swell efficiency (ASE) attainable without damage to wood. However, acetylation of wood has been slow to be commercialized due to the cost, corrosion and the entrapment of the acetic acid in wood. There is an extensive volume of literature relating to the chemical modification of wood (Rowell, 1983, 1991; Kumar, 1994; Haque, 1997)."

"Drying timber is one method of adding value to sawn products from the primary wood processing industries. According to the Australian Forest and Wood Products Research and Development Corporation..........green sawn hardwood, which is sold at about $350 per cubic metre or less increases in value to $2,000 per cubic metre or more with drying and processing."So yes, properly aged and stored wood used for pool cues is definitely stronger, more desirable and is very expensive which is why production cues aren't made with the same wood that custom cue-makers use.........it's too costly to outright purchase wood already aged for7-8-10 years and longer and there's too many issues associated with environmental control and storage of wood inventories for pool cues/shafts etc. to do that on their own.

I am not saying that production cues are manufactured using inferior wood and to infer anything like that would be complete misinterpretation by the reader. What I am saying is that the wood used by higher end custom cue-makers is superior quality wood. Very simply put, that means it's more expensive wood no matter how you slice it but wood factor is not the sole difference as there's so many other considerations as well.


"My Pool Cues"

*Bob Owen Custom- Level 8 (s/d 4-24-16) - Flat Ivory Joint
*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 6 (s/d 5-4-16) - Flat Ivory Joint

*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 8 (s/d 2-23-15) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Ed Prewitt Custom '05 - Level 8 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Bob Owen Custom - Level 8 (s/d 5-4-14) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Tim Scruggs Custom (9-6-95) Level 7 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Runde Schon '85 Custom "R" Series (1 of 1)
*Palmer (Original) - '72 (All Cocobolo Wood)

Last edited by Bavafongoul; 11-15-2013 at 05:01 PM.
  
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11-16-2013, 07:41 AM

Mass produced but marketed well.They will make a cue and call it
a 1 of 7 then make another cue with almost he same design and change a inlay
color and make that cue a 1 of 12 or a limited or a whatever.
To me a Schon, Joss,Pechauer feel and hit about the same depending on the
shaft you play with.Designs will vary of course.
  
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9Ballr
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11-16-2013, 07:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavafongoul View Post
Can you compare a custom Danny Turnbull gun, or a custom Les Kimber model, with an out of the box Colt or S&W?
Surely you meant to say Les Baer.
That's the name, plus nothing custom about Kimber except 'some' Kimber customs.
And even then only minimally so.
  
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11-16-2013, 08:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zilemok View Post
Are schons considered mid-high end cues? How do you define if a cue is low, mid or high end cue? Do list some examples of production and custom cues in each range. Thanks
It is a good question, however, with that said I do not think you will find an answer other than personal opinions. With that said in my opinion your question can only be based on the current purchase price of an item.

If your question is based on quality that is a entirely different question.

Based upon price of currently sold production cues, I think that Schon would qualify as a mid to high end production cue.


Best Regards

"Warlock 1"

Craig W. Rittel
  
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02-07-2014, 09:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jburkm002 View Post
Do you need to age wood for 10 to 20 years with today's technology. LD shafts are cut in pie shapes and put back together. I don't know how old the wood is. I do think technology somehow puts everything back together and they aren't falling apart. Let's be fair. Not all custom cues are all that as far as design goes. They are all subjective to playability just like production. They made their name and that means something. I get that. Let's says two shops have the exact same materials to make the same exact cue. One custom and one production. So I should pay more because the custom shop doesn't have the same technology of the production shop. That's silly. It would be basically the same cue in the end.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

This could be debated until we're all blue in the face. You said "let's say two shops have the exact same materials to make the same exact cue." That won't happen. As for "custom" cue makers who you might think do not make any strides towards creating a better product over the years, I would give you a few names. Dennis Searing, Joel Hercek, Barry Szamboti. All top tier cuemakers who make better cues today than 10 years ago, I'm sure. But...I noticed you live in Baltimore. Go talk to Mike Lambros, he's in your area and makes one of the BEST playing cues on planet earth. He'll explain better than I, why a custom cue plays better than a production cue. Not to say there aren't production cues that play good, because there are, for sure. There has been comparisons made of cars, watches, guns, etc. A Ferrari and a Ford Focus will both get you from point A to point B, but it sure is a lot better getting there in a Ferrari, in my opinion. No disrespect to Ford Motor Company...


BET SOMETHING!!!




  
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another way to look at cues
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HollyWood
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Wink another way to look at cues - 02-11-2014, 05:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zilemok View Post
Are schons considered mid-high end cues? How do you define if a cue is low, mid or high end cue? Do list some examples of production and custom cues in each range. Thanks
Schon sells like 8 levels. level 2 level 3 level 4 level 5 level 6 one of a kind ,and elite . pm sent Please buy this bk ( Blue book of cues) by Brad Simpson. it gives you values for used cues. from a few cuemakers .
  
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Schon Cues
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Shooter08
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Schon Cues - 02-11-2014, 06:34 PM

I am a Schon dealer and I don't care what current Schon you take off the rack, if it was made by Evan it should play similar to any other current Schon cue be it a STL1 or Unique. They are all cored and all have the same shafts and ferrules unless you get ivory. If you want a Schon PM me for pricing shipped with PayPal payment.
  
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02-13-2014, 01:45 PM

The way I look at it Schon is similar to Rolex in the watch world. They are both top quality, relatively expensive products that delivery a high level of performance and consistency. They are generally very well regarded, but they are certainly not at the top echelon of the available options.

In cues we have Szamboti, Black Boar, Gina, SW, etc. and it would be hard to argue that those are not on a different level than Schon. Same thing in watches. Rolex is nice but it's certainly not a high end Patek Phillipe, A Lange and Sohne, Jaeger LeCoultre, or Audemars Piguet.

That isn't to say a Schon can't perform just as well as those other cues or that a Rolex won't keep time as well as those other watches, they absolutely will. There are other intangible factors that come into play along with some degree of limited supply, and more involved construction techniques that are used that do not necessarily have a direct effect on performance.

I like Schon and Rolex, very solid and reliably high quality products.

And, if you are looking for a Schon, definitely contact Shooter08...I'm glad I did and would recommend him highly.
  
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02-14-2014, 02:22 PM

I keep my Wilson Combat in my BMW Z4 to protect my "high end, med-high, med, and low end" cues on pool night.
  
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02-20-2014, 06:47 AM

schon sells more cues over $2000 than any cue maker in the world

They also sell cues that cost less than $1000 on 80% of their cues,maybe 90&

Laurie gets about $2000 bon her cheapest model

Barry gets over $5000 on the basic cues
Jake Hulcy claims not to be a cue maker and his truly one of a kind far out Picasso
styles are getting way up over $10,000

You decide whats high end for yourself
  
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02-20-2014, 08:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavafongoul View Post
I think rather than me pontificating as I've been accused of doing, ,
with all due respect mr bavafongoul
how a cue plays has nothing to do with all the intricate and number of inlays.
the fact that you can pick your wood /design/ weight balance and all doesnt make your cue play "better"
because in someone elses hands it might play like sh*t
it might look "better" but that too is
beauty is in the eyes of the beholder
of course you pay a price for being able to control your options and the fact that the number of cues available by said custom cuemaker
is lower thus decreased supply usually means increased price

all that being said
for the op if selling point is your definition for high/mid/low end cues
as mentioned schon is in the upper end of production cue prices
yet even at $2000 for one of schons more expensive cues
barely gets him to mid level with custom cues
high end customs from cuemakers still making cues would be szamboti/black boar/searing to name a few there are more
mid range would be murrell/nitti(a favorite of mine for great quality for the price)/ to name a couple
for customs schon in the higher end and joss i think of more in the mid range
i dont keep up with production cues much so i cant be of more help
  
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02-26-2014, 10:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
with all due respect mr bavafongoul
how a cue plays has nothing to do with all the intricate and number of inlays.
the fact that you can pick your wood /design/ weight balance and all doesnt make your cue play "better"
because in someone elses hands it might play like sh*t
it might look "better" but that too is
beauty is in the eyes of the beholder
of course you pay a price for being able to control your options and the fact that the number of cues available by said custom cuemaker
is lower thus decreased supply usually means increased price

all that being said
for the op if selling point is your definition for high/mid/low end cues
as mentioned schon is in the upper end of production cue prices
yet even at $2000 for one of schons more expensive cues
barely gets him to mid level with custom cues
high end customs from cuemakers still making cues would be szamboti/black boar/searing to name a few there are more
mid range would be murrell/nitti(a favorite of mine for great quality for the price)/ to name a couple
for customs schon in the higher end and joss i think of more in the mid range
i dont keep up with production cues much so i cant be of more help
If there one thing I've learned from threads like these, it's that bavafongoul will over debate and over complicate any question having to do with cues.


Chuck Stephenson
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03-02-2014, 10:03 PM

I would say Schon cues or mid range to high end depending on the model you buy.
  
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03-17-2014, 12:16 AM

I would say a Schon is a good high end commercial cue. The ones I have played with play well. My only hit on them and and any custom is with rounded points.
  
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Not really the first question about that...or?
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al-capool
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Question Not really the first question about that...or? - 03-18-2014, 03:32 PM

Dear zilemok,
Just that there isn't any misunderstanding. I neither want to offend you, nor is my statement here below against you, or anything else personal!

I'm an AZB-Member since 2 months only and I'm quit sure that till now, I've already read 10 or more threads, about what kind of Cues Schons are. But I think the real sad thing about it, is that on every thread like this, you a few wise members, knowing everything about anything better than anyone else and there are also the other ones, who are always repeating the same answers!
I'm sorry, but am I really the only one who feels like this?

Of course you can read as many replies you want to, on one or more threads of that "little" selection, here below:
- Schons are what end cues? (Cue Reviews) 29 replies
- What makes a Joss or Schon worth the $$$$ (Cue Reviews) 16 replies
- Jacoby, Schon, or other (Custom) Cue? (Cue Reviews) 30 replies
- Schon VS Predator (Cue Reviews) 11 replies
- Poll: Schon VS. Mezz Poll (Cue Reviews) 46 replies
- What production cue is your favourite? (Main Forum) 56 replies
- Schon hit? (Wanted/For Sale) 39 replies
I'm sure if you need more and you would search a little, you'll find many more about the same theme!

IMO to all those who really care about what kind of Cues Schons are, I sincerely propose:
Go to a billiard supply reseller, who has a waste choice of Schon Cues! Choose one or more Schons and take a close and sharp look on the woods and the other materials, their colours and contrasts, the Irish linen or leather wrap and if there are some Inlays, on their designs, sizes and forms and how they're matching together. On the points, the veneers and the ring works too. But especially on how precise and clean all these works have been accomplished! Finally play a few racks with one of them!
Then you could decide yourself, to what end cues Schons belong!

KR, Al Capool


Player: Schön Unique "T.R."
Shaft 1: 314-2 with black Kamui 'S'
Shaft 2: Schon IV with black Kamui 'S'
Case: Dybior 2/4 Croco embossed black leather & black velvet
Break Cue: Predator BK1
Jump Cue: A no name

Last edited by al-capool; 03-21-2014 at 06:13 AM. Reason: Corrigated version
  
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