Book Finally Coming?

Boxcar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Gosh, and I was so afraid this thread was going to turn into one of those drippy latter day Morality Plays.
 

justcueit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So there is some new and improved information? That is good and promising news for all those who purchased the CTE DVDs, watched every one of Stan's YouTube clips countless times, argued with believers and naysayers alike here on AZ and back on RSB over the last 15 to 20 years, only to wind up giving up on getting the system to work objectively as described.

Like I've said too many times to count, I hope Stan's book and truth series help a lot of players improve their game.
There's nothing like playing great pool, though I know golfers and bowlers and dart throwers and musicians say the same thing about their passions. I'd just like to see more people reaching higher levels of pool. I don't care what system they may or may not use, or what system they like or dislike or ridicule or worship. We all love this game. We all have passion for it, else we wouldn't be here talking and arguing about it.


Another backhanded slap in your post. Nothing new.

For the record, state championships, regional tournaments, tour events here and abroad, and numerous national championships have been won with CTE PRO ONE. Too much stuff to list.

Pro players are migrating to CTE PRO ONE such as Hunter Lombardo and Mary Kenniston. The list grows.

Tyler Styer’s accomplishments over the past few years speak for themself.

To think that those that use PRO ONE are not using it with an objective center cue ball is a mistake. Yes, it’s tougher not knowing all the minutia but as Hal used to say-pivot to center and whack it., Theres way more to it than you understand.

Connie Shuffett
 
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Boxcar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
But actually, I think it's the sequel to "The Gunfight at The O.K. Corral"...............

No...........it's more like a rerun of "West Side Story"

I've just met a girl named Maria
And suddenly that name
Will never be the same
To me
Maria!
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Another backhanded slap in your post. Nothing new.

For the record, state championships, regional tournaments, tour events here and abroad, and numerous national championships have been won with CTE PRO ONE. Too much stuff to list.

Pro players are migrating to CTE PRO ONE such as Hunter Lombardo and Mary Kenniston. The list grows.

Tyler Styer’s accomplishments over the past few years speak for themself.

To think that those that use PRO ONE are not using it with an objective center cue ball is a mistake. Yes, it’s tougher not knowing all the minutia but as Hal used to say-pivot to center and whack it., Theres way more to it than you understand.

Stan is not going to continue to respond to your backhanded slaps. Stan advises not to speak on a topic until you’re strongly educated about it.

Connie Shuffett

No backhanded slap intended. Stan just can't handle any honest criticism whatsoever. He really needed a PR person to handle all the criticism he started getting from the beginning, then it probably wouldn't have escalated into this 20yr mess of us against them. We're talking about aiming pool balls, not exactly a topic that calls for hate or egotism or envy or gloating.

I believe the reason Stan has been badgered for years isn't because a handful of people that purchased his DVDs and watched his 100+ YouTube videos just couldn't make it work. It's because a large amount of people couldn't make it work, at least not according to the "objective" instructions, hence the multiple "CTE my way" versions that have popped up on YouTube over the years. There's no way to tell how many players couldn't make it work because there are no public reviews or ratings of the material. We only know the few players here that are satisfied, as well as a few pro players, all fine people I'm sure.

Anyhow, it's obvious that Stan has a lot of passion, and I respect that, but he also has a lot of stubbornness not to acknowledge that many people simply struggle with CTE trying to get it to work as fluently as he gets it to work. He is so quick to point out all the pro players that are using the system, but there's an unknown mass of non-pro players out there that have tried it, and most end up quitting it or coming up with their own version of it. Why is that? Must you already be a great player like Stan, Cookie, Stevie Moore, Tyler, etc...in order to work the system well? It sure seems like it. If that's not the case, Stan should rethink his attitude and come down off that high horse of his where many players that aren't already great would love to learn from him. If it's a "professional" system, how about trying to handle criticism more professionally, honestly, no ego, and don't assume that just because someone doesn't like or get CTE that they are "against" it. There is such a thing as indifference. Not everyone has to be "for it" or "against it".

Sorry for the long rant. I blame American Honey, good stuff. :eek:
 
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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Connie - let me illustrate a very simple example of the kinds of criticisms we have had about Stan's system and how he describes it. I offer this because you are not a regular member here and may not be aware of such things.

Stan says that CTE Pro1 takes you to an over cut alignment so that every shot hits center pocket. Let's look at an example. When Stan says the table is a 2x1 surface with the pockets at the intersection of the rails, he is talking about the dimensions from cushion nose to cushion nose (the very tip of the cushion). On a 9' table this measures 50" by 100". The corners are located at the intersection of the rails. IOW, if you extend each rail so that they intersect at a right angle, this intersection will be at the very center of the pocket near the opening of the pocket - probably just inside the shelf.

Let's set up an ETA shot that is frozen to the long rail. In order to pocket that shot, you must aim for the ob to hit the facing of the cushion, which is a good one to two inches away from that intersection of the rails. Now set up another ETA shot frozen to the short rail. Same thing happens but now on the opposite facing. So here we have two ETA shots and they must somehow be aimed at points a whole pocket diameter away from each other. In this case, if Stan's system actually took you to the corner of the table (where the rails intersect) then you could never pocket a ball near the rail. This has been brought up before and the response we get is something like:

- it's been explained to you a dozen times already
- you're a hater and a naysayer
- if you took it to the table and worked on it you would understand
- wait for the book.

Never any comments like it takes you close to the corner of the pocket, allowing for some slop, or anything like that. It is always an overcut to center pocket exactly so go pound sand.

Maybe you can ask Stan for us. I'm pretty sure he won't insult you. :wink:
 

justcueit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Connie - let me illustrate a very simple example of the kinds of criticisms we have had about Stan's system and how he describes it. I offer this because you are not a regular member here and may not be aware of such things.

Stan says that CTE Pro1 takes you to an over cut alignment so that every shot hits center pocket. Let's look at an example. When Stan says the table is a 2x1 surface with the pockets at the intersection of the rails, he is talking about the dimensions from cushion nose to cushion nose (the very tip of the cushion). On a 9' table this measures 50" by 100". The corners are located at the intersection of the rails. IOW, if you extend each rail so that they intersect at a right angle, this intersection will be at the very center of the pocket near the opening of the pocket - probably just inside the shelf.

Let's set up an ETA shot that is frozen to the long rail. In order to pocket that shot, you must aim for the ob to hit the facing of the cushion, which is a good one to two inches away from that intersection of the rails. Now set up another ETA shot frozen to the short rail. Same thing happens but now on the opposite facing. So here we have two ETA shots and they must somehow be aimed at points a whole pocket diameter away from each other. In this case, if Stan's system actually took you to the corner of the table (where the rails intersect) then you could never pocket a ball near the rail. This has been brought up before and the response we get is something like:

- it's been explained to you a dozen times already
- you're a hater and a naysayer
- if you took it to the table and worked on it you would understand
- wait for the book.

Never any comments like it takes you close to the corner of the pocket, allowing for some slop, or anything like that. It is always an overcut to center pocket exactly so go pound sand.

Maybe you can ask Stan for us. I'm pretty sure he won't insult you. :wink:

It must be said first that you do not know how the system works, therefore can’t know whether the ETAs work or not.

Honestly, Stan does NOT understand your setups and the results that you are concerned about.

Video or diagram your setups and explain your concerns and then pony up a LARGE bet that CTE can’t handle them.
I promise you this much, bet or no bet on your part, Stan will address the shots in his Truth Series.

Connie Shuffett
 
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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It must be said first that you do not know how the system works, therefore can’t know whether the ETAs work or not.

Honestly, Stan does NOT understand your setups and the results that you are concerned about.

Video or diagram your setup and explain your concern and then pony up a LARGE bet that CTE can’t handle it.

Connie Shuffett

Not sure what's so hard to understand. Place a ball at 2 diamonds on the long rail, another one at 2 diamonds on the short rail, and a third on the foot spot. Each ball must go to a different location in order to be pocketed. If CTE takes you to center pocket each time, what does that even really mean? Center pocket will not pocket the 2 balls on the rails. The CTE solution for the ball on the spot will not work for the balls on the rails unless the player makes an adjustment either consciously or subconsciously.

If CTE is a robust system, this question should not be difficult to explain. It doesn't require answers like, "You don't understand" or "I don't understand" or "How much you wanna bet"?
 

justcueit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not sure what's so hard to understand. Place a ball at 2 diamonds on the long rail, another one at 2 diamonds on the short rail, and a third on the foot spot. Each ball must go to a different location in order to be pocketed. If CTE takes you to center pocket each time, what does that even really mean? Center pocket will not pocket the 2 balls on the rails. The CTE solution for the ball on the spot will not work for the balls on the rails unless the player makes an adjustment either consciously or subconsciously.

If CTE is a robust system, this question should not be difficult to explain. It doesn't require answers like, "You don't understand" or "I don't understand" or "How much you wanna bet"?

Center pocket varies per each shot. Center pocket per each shot is determined by establishing a line of centers between a ghost ball and the given object ball. The over-cut line can be seen in relation to to the core of the given ghost ball per each shot.

Connie Shuffett
 

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I believe the reason Stan has been badgered for years isn't because a handful of people that purchased his DVDs and watched his 100+ YouTube videos just couldn't make it work. It's because a large amount of people couldn't make it work, at least not according to the "objective" instructions, hence the multiple "CTE my way" versions that have popped up on YouTube over the years. There's no way to tell how many players couldn't make it work because there are no public reviews or ratings of the material. We only know the few players here that are satisfied, as well as a few pro players, all fine people I'm sure.

o

No, it's only been a handful of people on here badgering the system. "A large amount of people couldn't make it work" Where do you get these numbers at. Only been about 6 or 7 on here that actually tried and couldn't get it. You can't count the trolls like Richard Boxcar that pop in.
The reason so many versions are popping up on youtube is because CTE is just that good and people want in on it to try and make a name for themselves. No most aren't close to Stan's work but you can't stop people from trying to copy his work.
You want to talk about a large amount of people then let's look at that.
Hal taught countless numbers.
Stan has taught large numbers of people.
Look at all the versions on youtube people are learning from.
The PBIA instructors teach a version of CTE
That translates to large numbers.

That american honey must have been real tasty last night,lol.
 
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cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not sure what's so hard to understand. Place a ball at 2 diamonds on the long rail, another one at 2 diamonds on the short rail, and a third on the foot spot. Each ball must go to a different location in order to be pocketed. If CTE takes you to center pocket each time, what does that even really mean? Center pocket will not pocket the 2 balls on the rails. The CTE solution for the ball on the spot will not work for the balls on the rails unless the player makes an adjustment either consciously or subconsciously.

If CTE is a robust system, this question should not be difficult to explain. It doesn't require answers like, "You don't understand" or "I don't understand" or "How much you wanna bet"?

Stan will address the shots in his Truth Series. Sit back and wait.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Center pocket varies per each shot. Center pocket per each shot is determined by establishing a line of centers between a ghost ball and the given object ball. The over-cut line can be seen in relation to to the core of the given ghost ball per each shot.

Connie Shuffett

OK so that makes sense. Each ball has to go to a different part of the pocket depending on where it is on the table. There is no "one" center pocket. If you are in a position to use the ETA perception to pocket all three of those balls, how does the ball know where it is on the table and how does it know to go to the left side vs center vs right side, if you get my drift? Of course, this comes right back to the original problem, something Stan coined as "a mystery." If the ball is addressed in the same way then the cut angle cannot be different, all other things being equal, yet Stan says it is. For those not familiar, it is like this: Put the ob and cb on hole reinforcers and make it so that an ETA pockets the ball in the center. Now move the ob to the left two inches and do the same ETA. It cannot still go center pocket using the same aiming method, yet Stan says it does and calls it a mystery "that was never supposed to be."

Several of us have offered explanations, the most common and likely one being that the player makes the necessary adjustments either during set up or during the stroke to pocket the ball. They use the ETA as a starting point and then step into the correct position based on past experience. The introduction of a "visual sweep" makes this easier to do because a 1/2 tip manual pivot is harder to fudge.

While these explanations may or may not be strictly correct, the CTE supporters assure is that our explanations are wrong... even thought they call it a mystery... somehow they know we are wrong.

Understanding this is what I've been calling the WHY it works. If it cannot be shown that Stan's method can put the player on the shot line 100% objectively without the need for getting a feel for the shot direction, then it must be concluded that the shot line must be known and understood before any of the CTE steps are taken. That kind of defeats the purpose of using the method, other than to provide some kind of pre shot routine structure.
 

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
OK so that makes sense. Each ball has to go to a different part of the pocket depending on where it is on the table. There is no "one" center pocket. If you are in a position to use the ETA perception to pocket all three of those balls, how does the ball know where it is on the table and how does it know to go to the left side vs center vs right side, if you get my drift? Of course, this comes right back to the original problem, something Stan coined as "a mystery." If the ball is addressed in the same way then the cut angle cannot be different, all other things being equal, yet Stan says it is. For those not familiar, it is like this: Put the ob and cb on hole reinforcers and make it so that an ETA pockets the ball in the center. Now move the ob to the left two inches and do the same ETA. It cannot still go center pocket using the same aiming method, yet Stan says it does and calls it a mystery "that was never supposed to be."

Several of us have offered explanations, the most common and likely one being that the player makes the necessary adjustments either during set up or during the stroke to pocket the ball. They use the ETA as a starting point and then step into the correct position based on past experience. The introduction of a "visual sweep" makes this easier to do because a 1/2 tip manual pivot is harder to fudge.

While these explanations may or may not be strictly correct, the CTE supporters assure is that our explanations are wrong... even thought they call it a mystery... somehow they know we are wrong.

Understanding this is what I've been calling the WHY it works. If it cannot be shown that Stan's method can put the player on the shot line 100% objectively without the need for getting a feel for the shot direction, then it must be concluded that the shot line must be known and understood before any of the CTE steps are taken. That kind of defeats the purpose of using the method, other than to provide some kind of pre shot routine structure.

https://www.facebook.com/venomtrick.../UzpfSTEwMzkxOTcwNjk6MTAyMTgwMzU0Njk1NzE4MzM/
 

justcueit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
OK so that makes sense. Each ball has to go to a different part of the pocket depending on where it is on the table. There is no "one" center pocket. If you are in a position to use the ETA perception to pocket all three of those balls, how does the ball know where it is on the table and how does it know to go to the left side vs center vs right side, if you get my drift? Of course, this comes right back to the original problem, something Stan coined as "a mystery." If the ball is addressed in the same way then the cut angle cannot be different, all other things being equal, yet Stan says it is. For those not familiar, it is like this: Put the ob and cb on hole reinforcers and make it so that an ETA pockets the ball in the center. Now move the ob to the left two inches and do the same ETA. It cannot still go center pocket using the same aiming method, yet Stan says it does and calls it a mystery "that was never supposed to be."

Several of us have offered explanations, the most common and likely one being that the player makes the necessary adjustments either during set up or during the stroke to pocket the ball. They use the ETA as a starting point and then step into the correct position based on past experience. The introduction of a "visual sweep" makes this easier to do because a 1/2 tip manual pivot is harder to fudge.

While these explanations may or may not be strictly correct, the CTE supporters assure is that our explanations are wrong... even thought they call it a mystery... somehow they know we are wrong.

Understanding this is what I've been calling the WHY it works. If it cannot be shown that Stan's method can put the player on the shot line 100% objectively without the need for getting a feel for the shot direction, then it must be concluded that the shot line must be known and understood before any of the CTE steps are taken. That kind of defeats the purpose of using the method, other than to provide some kind of pre shot routine structure.

FACT: The player does not know the shot line. The CTE process takes the player to the no judgement over-cut shot line. That’s what separates CTE from every other aiming system.

Connie Shuffett
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
FACT: The player does not know the shot line. The CTE process takes the player to the no judgement over-cut shot line. That’s what separates CTE from every other aiming system.

Connie Shuffett

Yes, I understand this to be the underpinning of your method. When I decide to hit with an ETA perception how do I decide whether to sweep inside or outside?
 

justcueit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, I understand this to be the underpinning of your method. When I decide to hit with an ETA perception how do I decide whether to sweep inside or outside?

The answer to that is addressed in full in Stan’s Truth Series and book. Stan is not going to begin walking you through the process at this time. Should Stan answer that question, you’d have another and another.

Connie Shuffett
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The answer to that is addressed in full in Stan’s Truth Series and book. Stan is not going to begin walking you through the process at this time. Should Stan answer that question, you’d have another and another.

Connie Shuffett

This is the kind of question that does not square with the idea that the player does not need to know the shot line. Historically, as you say, this kind of question leads to another and another. That's what happens when the "answers" are evasive, incomplete and/or contain made up jargon.

The answer to the "mystery" is not addressed in the book, according to Stan, himself.
 

justcueit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is the kind of question that does not square with the idea that the player does not need to know the shot line. Historically, as you say, this kind of question leads to another and another. That's what happens when the "answers" are evasive, incomplete and/or contain made up jargon.

The answer to the "mystery" is not addressed in the book, according to Stan, himself.

You’re not going to play twenty questions with Stan.

The player does need to know the shot line and the CTE process yields it for the player to know.

Nothing evasive about saying when and where the process of CTE will be fully revealed. Should you decide to get froggy the window is open.

Connie Shuffett
 
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
No, it's only been a handful of people on here badgering the system. "A large amount of people couldn't make it work" Where do you get these numbers at. Only been about 6 or 7 on here that actually tried and couldn't get it. You can't count the trolls like Richard Boxcar that pop in.
The reason so many versions are popping up on youtube is because CTE is just that good and people want in on it to try and make a name for themselves. No most aren't close to Stan's work but you can't stop people from trying to copy his work.
You want to talk about a large amount of people then let's look at that.
Hal taught countless numbers.
Stan has taught large numbers of people.
Look at all the versions on youtube people are learning from.
The PBIA instructors teach a version of CTE
That translates to large numbers.

That american honey must have been real tasty last night,lol.

Well I'm just basing it on the amount of threads I've read over the years concerning the DVDs and the amount of people complaining aboit trying to get it working for every shot. There's plenty more than half a dozen naysayers, and a couple are local friends of mine.

Usually when a Youtuber blocks their subscriber count, and blocks all comments on videos, and there's no way to verify the amount of negativity or bad reviews of any product they're selling....well, that's an indication that the numbers/data may not be very flattering. I could be wrong of course. I've been wrong about a lot of stuff, but I always admit when I am, and I accept it as a lesson learned. Look up any billiard book, dvd, gizmo, etc.. and you can get a good idea about what other players think of the product. I do that with CTE and find nothing but bickering forum threads. So my assumption isn't purely baseless. You, and maybe Dave S are two players I know of that aren't pros but play sporty enough for me to respect your opinion. So I remain hopeful that the truth series will make everything much better.:eek:

And yes, the American honey was quite tasty.
 
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