A team of Professional Women v Amateur Men - who wins?

storke · May 1, 2015

Matt said:
The top female pros are all grand master level players, so if you're limiting the male team to advanced and master players, the women are going to be the favorite by a wide margin. However, there are a lot of grand master level male players that don't play pool for a living; if you put a team of them together, they would be able to hang with the women. That team would also be able to hang with a lot of the male pros, just not the elite.

Basically, the top female professionals are good enough to compete with a lot of the male professionals, just not the top ones, but I can say the same about the top male amateurs. There is just a much bigger pool of male players to draw from, so the skill level of the women drops off pretty quickly compared to the men. The life of a professional, or even shortstop, pool player just doesn't seem to attract that many women.

I dont believe this to be so. I cant think of any female professional players who could beat Chris Bartrum. He is not a top pro and I would bet money none of the women could beat him if the race was long enough. Therefore there is a over inflated sense of how good the women pros are.

BasementDweller · May 1, 2015

storke said:
I dont believe this to be so. I cant think of any female professional players who could beat Chris Bartrum. He is not a top pro and I would bet money none of the women could beat him if the race was long enough. Therefore there is a over inflated sense of how good the women pros are.

Not sure why this happens but it happens every time this subject comes up. I think people love to project the world they wished they lived in into the real world.

In the real world, the women aren't as good. There's not a single woman on the planet that would play Chris Bartram a serious money match.

axejunkie · May 1, 2015

The women's pro level drops considerably after a certain level, say Top 25 or Top 50, however that is determined. It's that way in many other women's sports, relative to men's sports. Thus it makes a huge difference if the women's team is Ouschan, Kim, Fisher etc. or women who are ranked lower but classed as professionals.

poQet trainer · May 1, 2015

judging from your avatar you see women as nothing more than sex objects, and than asking if a top woman can even compete with amateurs just says it all on your stance on women. that being said, I do agree that there is only four or five women that could compete with the men at a professional level and most women pros aren't true "pros" compared with the men. as far as the top 4, I do believe they can beat a top amateur. At times I believe that women have the intellectual advantage in pool bc their focus is conscious, and the men need to be in-stroke or in the zone, and we tend to fall apart much easier if things aren't going our way, at least at the amateur level, a true male pro can compensate with muscle memory and years of practice. I see that all the time and believe it to be true.

poQet trainer · May 1, 2015

storke said:
I dont believe this to be so. I cant think of any female professional players who could beat Chris Bartrum. He is not a top pro and I would bet money none of the women could beat him if the race was long enough. Therefore there is a over inflated sense of how good the women pros are.

BasementDweller said:
Not sure why this happens but it happens every time this subject comes up. I think people love to project the world they wished they lived in into the real world.

In the real world, the women aren't as good. There's not a single woman on the planet that would play Chris Bartram a serious money match.

it's happening, and we have to bite it and deal with it, lets not get started on real world situations and who deserves what on merit and not because it's right or fair. we're handing America to the undeserving and unqualified and we're going to regret it. all in the name of what? this is a subject better left for the NPR, but either way, I don't know who chris bartram is and from the couple of videos on youtube he's prone to mistakes a pro wouldnt make. I don't know about money matches, that's a different game all together, he might be a beast in money games. I definitely play better on money games, but in a mosconi set up up its different.

jburkm002 · May 1, 2015

Are there ACCU STATS that might support how men and women match up?

pwd72s · May 1, 2015

peppersauce said:
What are the requirements to be tagged a BCA Grandmaster? I saw a BCA grandmasters tournament that had Rafael Martinez and Gabe Owen in it.

To the OP, I think it depends on which female pros and which amateur males you were to put against each other.

Basically win a couple of Masters tournaments...or consistently win masters tourneys, not sure which.

My "Honorary Nephew" is Matt Horner...ranked BCA Grand master. But he is a working stiff, didn't play enough tournaments to enter BCA events this year. So, he entered the open 8 ball event in Lincoln City..that had quite a few top pros..Deuel, Morra, Van Boening, Frost,and others. Matt finished in the money, 5th=6th out of 128 entered. So yeah, BCA grand masters can play some...

If I had megabucks, I'd probably spend the loot to give Matt a free ride on the pro tour for a year or so..just to see if he could enter their ranks. Right now, he's lucky if he can spend 4-5 hours a week on a table...

On the other hand, I don't know if I'd wish the life of a pro pool player on my worst enemy...

Matt · May 1, 2015

storke said:
I dont believe this to be so. I cant think of any female professional players who could beat Chris Bartrum. He is not a top pro and I would bet money none of the women could beat him if the race was long enough. Therefore there is a over inflated sense of how good the women pros are.

The OP stipulated that the amateur players would be BCA advanced or master level players. If Chris Bartrum isn't a grand master level player, he's not as good as you think he is.

DTL · May 1, 2015

.....................

Mrdodd72 · May 1, 2015

Matt said:
The OP stipulated that the amateur players would be BCA advanced or master level players. If Chris Bartrum isn't a grand master level player, he's not as good as you think he is.

A BCA ranking is hardly an accurate litmus test for a good player. Although I participate in a league now, back in the late 80's and early 90's, league players and good money match players didn't mix. The money players had little respect for the leagues. So many great players out there will have nothing to do with pool leagues.

Matt · May 1, 2015

Mrdodd72 said:
A BCA ranking is hardly an accurate litmus test for a good player. Although I participate in a league now, back in the late 80's and early 90's, league players and good money match players didn't mix. The money players had little respect for the leagues. So many great players out there will have nothing to do with pool leagues.

I said "grand master level" player. I don't care whether he plays in a league and has an official BCA rank or not. If he doesn't play at a grand master level, he's not favored to beat any of the top 10 women, whether it's a money match or not.

Calling yourself a pool pro, amateur, league player, or money player has nothing to do with how well you play, so the OP used the BCA rankings as a baseline, and every female pro that is on the BCA list is a grand master. That doesn't necessarily make them better than the male pros (the ones on the list are also grand masters), but it does make them better than the advanced and master players that were proposed for the "amateur" team.

barking4action · May 1, 2015

Men. Their break is better

sjm · May 1, 2015

TheOne said:
If a team of 4 amateur male players (BCA advanced and masters only) played a team of 4 professional women in a Mosconi style format (for the sake of arguments lets say the top 4 in the current rankings) who do you think would win, or is it too close to call?

I don't have a strong opinion but I am curious to hear the opinion of the forum.

Cheers

A team of Sha Sha Liu, Han Yu, Ga Young Kim and Siming Chen vs. the four best BCA masters players --- I'd pick the ladies. Put them up against the grand masters, however, and they are underdogs.

gogg · May 1, 2015

Tramp Steamer said:
You mean four league players against four professional women pool players?

God Lord, man. That would be like our neighborhood middle school boys basketball team playing the Uconn Lady Huskies.

That's awesome!!

* wish I had started this crap earlier *

SJDinPHX · May 1, 2015

This hypothetical question, has been asked many, many times, in all sports...Look back at when a 50 yr. old Bobby Riggs (who was never the greatest tennis player anyway) got beat by lady superstar, Billie Jean King..It was a media hyped, lopsided match-up, to begin with !

We have to use other sports to draw a comparison, as it would be very hard to duplicate such a match in pool.. You could possibly get your answer by putting up the best men's player in the world, against the best women player !..IMO, (in a long enough race) it would be a slaughter !

Thats why they have separate tours, in all sports/games !..Women have never been able to compete, evenly, with their male counterpart...Sorry ladie's, its been that way forever, and like it or not, it ain't gonna change !

SJD...(aka, male chauvanist pig :embarrassed2

PS..I do much prefer watching the girls/ladies play..ANY GAME !

KRJ · May 1, 2015

DTL said:
I'll play any female on the planet:

- Race to 30 10 Ball
- Straight Pool to 300 points
- 8 Ball race to 15
- Full rack banks race to 8
- One Pocket race to 8.

All for $1000 each.

DTL

I don't know who you are, but I'm betting on you. You play all games, and you are calling out for action. Somebody stream this shite

TheOne · May 1, 2015

poQet trainer said:
judging from your avatar you see women as nothing more than sex objects, and than asking if a top woman can even compete with amateurs just says it all on your stance on women. that being said, I do agree that there is only four or five women that could compete with the men at a professional level and most women pros aren't true "pros" compared with the men. as far as the top 4, I do believe they can beat a top amateur. At times I believe that women have the intellectual advantage in pool bc their focus is conscious, and the men need to be in-stroke or in the zone, and we tend to fall apart much easier if things aren't going our way, at least at the amateur level, a true male pro can compensate with muscle memory and years of practice. I see that all the time and believe it to be true.

Apologies about the avatar, I haven't been active on the forum for many years and it was related to one of the more historic threads from about five years ago - I was still quite impressed with the amount of assumptions you made from it though!

I shall change it ASAP.

I also wanted to add that although this question has been asked before, there is a serious reason for this thread which I hope will eventually answer this question.

If anything I would slightly favour the ladies btw but I'm not so certain.

Masayoshi · May 1, 2015

Matt said:
I said "grand master level" player. I don't care whether he plays in a league and has an official BCA rank or not. If he doesn't play at a grand master level, he's not favored to beat any of the top 10 women, whether it's a money match or not.

Calling yourself a pool pro, amateur, league player, or money player has nothing to do with how well you play, so the OP used the BCA rankings as a baseline, and every female pro that is on the BCA list is a grand master. That doesn't necessarily make them better than the male pros (the ones on the list are also grand masters), but it does make them better than the advanced and master players that were proposed for the "amateur" team.

Actually it doesn't necessarily make them better than the male masters. While most of the top 10 women are probably equivalent to many male grand masters, the talent drops off considerably outside of those elite and is MUCH softer than the men's grand master's list.

Also, if you go purely by ranking, there are probably quite a few masters players who could beat a few of the weaker top 10 wbpa ranked players (although there are much stronger players below them).

edit: Actually forget that. After reviewing the men's masters list, there are tons of players that could play heads up with the top women and probably win.

Johnnyt · May 1, 2015

Masayoshi said:
Actually it doesn't necessarily make them better than the male masters. While most of the top 10 women are probably equivalent to many male grand masters, the talent drops off considerably outside of those elite and is MUCH softer than the men's grand master's list.

Also, if you go purely by ranking, there are probably quite a few masters players who could beat a few of the weaker top 10 wbpa ranked players (although there are much stronger players below them).

edit: Actually forget that. After reviewing the men's masters list, there are tons of players that could play heads up with the top women and probably win.

I wouldn't use WBPA, as they don't have the 10 best women in the world playing in it. Johnnyt

Charlie Hustle · May 1, 2015

Id take the men over the top women.

A team of Professional Women v Amateur Men - who wins?

One Pocket Player

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