League Play Ethics and Feelings - Thoughts...

Whomever dumps a match is sandbagging and should stop or be kicked out of the league.

sbpoolleague said:

Whomever dumps a match is sandbagging and should stop or be kicked out of the league.

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Did you even read the post? I wouldn't equate "sandbagging" with having some human decency.

Perhaps the LO should be kicked out of the league for not accommodating this person without penalizing the team.

To me, it's like this: If a pool league team is kind enough to let a physically AND mentally handicapped player be on their team AND play....the team members shouldn't care if their team makes the playoffs or not.

Let it stay fun for ALL the team members.

Maniac

That's a tough spot. I have a few questions: How would Player A respond to some coaching and training? Could he learn to be a better player?

In general, I think honesty is the best policy here. If players are dumping for him, ask that they not do that, and instead try to help him become a better player with perhaps a bit of coaching.

There are two effects to consider when Player B dumps to Player A:

1) Player A becomes artificially over rated
2) Player B becomes artificially under rated

Both effects undermine a handicapped league system for EVERYONE.

sbpoolleague said:

Whomever dumps a match is sandbagging and should stop or be kicked out of the league.

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and should be shot at dawn.

measureman said:

and should be shot at dawn.

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Now we are getting closer to justice

I think the either the LO or corporate (whomever does the ratings) should be made aware of the situation so that player A doesn't continually get raised because of player B's always helping them win. I think it's awesome to make player A feel great but it shouldn't punish the team where it matters most in tournaments & playoffs.

measureman said:

and should be shot at dawn.

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8:30..... after coffee

Player A's captain should better learn to manage his team and handicaps.
You can't control what the other teams or their players might do, but you can
control your team and manage (not manipulate) the handicaps of your players.

...and regardless of what the other teams may do, I'd always expect my players
to give their best effort and try to win every match, even player 'A'

BarTableMan said:

The majority of player A's wins are due to opponents missing balls on purpose

When playoffs and singles tournaments come around Player A gets crushed and doesn't understand why. Player A's team won't make it to the championships

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easiest question ever on AZB....

"making it to championships".....nice

"allowing a handicapped but enthusiastic person enjoy pool"....priceless

BarTableMan said:

Player A absolutely loves being on a pool team and tries their hardest to win every match. Player A also is physically and mentally handicapped. The majority of player A's wins are due to opponents missing balls on purpose and dumping in order to make player A feel good on pool night. Winning is just thrilling to player A.

Player A's league handicap level is artificially too high due to their wins.

When playoffs and singles tournaments come around Player A gets crushed and doesn't understand why. Player A's team won't make it to the championships because player A gets crushed when it really counts.

So...best to let each week be exciting OR tell players to stop the dumping. There are a lot league nights so I leave it alone. What do you all think?

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I commend that captain and players a's opponents.. There are not too many captains that would have such a player on their team.

As for the players artificially high handicap. That's a tough one. I suggest emailing ...or writing a note to your lo and attach it to your score sheet explaining your thoughts about it.. Do you really think a lower handicap would help this person in playoffs? I myself doubt it would .....but that's just my opinion. Let me put it this way....if that player is rated a 4 due to undeserved wins I highly doubt being lowered to a 3 would make any difference come playoffs.

To all the people crying sandbagging........letting a mentally handicapped person win one match a session against you is not going to affect your handicap at all.

SB.....you are a league operator. You... Of all posters who have replied in this thread show know that one match does not define your handicap.

michael4 said:

easiest question ever on AZB....

"making it to championships".....nice

"allowing a handicapped but enthusiastic person enjoy pool"....priceless

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I was typing while you posted.......great post. Wish my phone would let me rep you.

pocket said:

Did you even read the post? I wouldn't equate "sandbagging" with having some human decency.

Perhaps the LO should be kicked out of the league for not accommodating this person without penalizing the team.

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That is an unacceptable response. If he can't play to compete then he shouldn't play.

There are no participatuon trophies. If his team decides to use play a it is their choice and they will suffer the consequences.

If players are dumping to player A, then they should suffer theirs.

Ok I'll address the elephant in the room. Players join a league and pay to play in a competitive environment. If you just want to play for enjoyment's sake then rent a table and go for it. I'm all for supporting disabled folks but most leagues and there are disabled individuals that can play competitively against non-disabled shooters. Based on the OP player A here is not competitive. Skippy27 has it right. If the team decides to use Player A it's their choice.

You could always lose playoffs before player a plays, or lose 2 matches and let player a try! If player a fails also it's a team effort. Make a side deal to let player a win while you lose??????? Then play match. I'm gonna get killed by internet apa police but I like the side deal!

My belief has always been that letting someone win is neither nice nor compassionate. You not only are cheating yourself out of a match, you are cheating the other player out of valuable lessons. Next off, you are cheating your team mates out of wins and actual money if you miss placing only by the matches that you lost on purpose. Finally you are cheating yourself because for all intents and purposes it is sandbagging.

Here is my 2 cents..

Like many on here, I play to win, sometimes I do, sometimes not, I'm comptetitive.

That being said, kudo's to the team captain and team mates that are willing to put in the time, effort, and lots and lots of patience to participate in this enviroment. They are giving back to the sport in ways that apparantly some dont understand.

If a few games wont impact a handicapping system, let him enjoy the "win"

Often times, the physically and mentatlly challenged don't have many opportunities to enjoy life, even in the smallest increments. We take for granted our health and mental well being, the handicapped dont have that luxury.

In my opinion, give it a break, in a year it wont matter anyway.

Man some of you guys are harsh.

How many times has it been posted on this forum by serious layers and league players alike that they dont play as well when nothing is on the line as they do when the match means something such as money or higher level tournaments.


How many times have serious players stated when they play friends or just for funsies they dont play very well but say they are playing for several bucks their game picks up.


How many times have league players posted they can't get into the match when they play lower level players.

I guess none of ya'll have ever been guilty of playing down to the level of your opponent.

How many times has it been said on this forum that leagues...especially apa.....is pool played in a social environment. Well apparently the captain in question is doing exactly that.

I am.guilty of playing down to my opponent. I am.a.6 in 9 ball and last week lost to a 3 by a score of 25-26 in a 25-46 race..under some of you guy's definition i am a sandbagger because I did not try hard enough to win that match. Losing that match did not affect my handicap one iota just like those players losing a match to that disabled player does not affect theirs. I just dont get into playing lower level players but that does not make me a sand bagger..if I was a sandbagger I would not have won my last 3 matches vs 2-7's and a 6 after losing to that 3.