Agreed.
I don't think I would try to make this unless I am just not thinking straight.
What is the best way to play a safety in this scenario?
- Thread starter freedog69
- Start date
Agreed.
I don't think I would try to make this unless I am just not thinking straight.
On virtually ANY frozen or near-frozen ball on the short rail, I like this shot.
I think it's a pretty reliable 2 way but you do need some feel for it.
It's easier if the cue ball is much closer to a side rail than the object ball (which is the case here).
It's harder though if forced to elevate a little (which is the case here).
Just try the old famous spin-it-in-with-inside shot.
When you miss this shot at the correct speed, it almost ALWAYS gets safe (see below).
But the correct speed is a matter of feel and depends on how much you spin a ball,
and the difficulty is compounded by jacking up over the corner pocket.
I'd still try it though. If hit 'decently' (meaning not good enough to make it but close) you get safe.
If you hit really bad and barely nick the 9 ball you get safe, or at least a long tough tester.
The biggest disaster is if you hit it fat which is just going to sell out completely.
Bear in mind over this large distance the cue ball curves quite a bit. And it's worse if the pocket
forces you to elevate. You might start out aiming to whiff the 9 by half a ball.
If I were coaching like an APA 4 in this situation I'd have them kick firmly.
On our local tables, high inside and about 2 ball widths south of the side pocket, will hit the middle
diamond of the foot rail. So I'd have them aim a smidge south of that hoping to kick the 9 in.
Firm so there's separation if it misses.
I think it's a pretty reliable 2 way but you do need some feel for it.
It's easier if the cue ball is much closer to a side rail than the object ball (which is the case here).
It's harder though if forced to elevate a little (which is the case here).
Just try the old famous spin-it-in-with-inside shot.
When you miss this shot at the correct speed, it almost ALWAYS gets safe (see below).
But the correct speed is a matter of feel and depends on how much you spin a ball,
and the difficulty is compounded by jacking up over the corner pocket.
I'd still try it though. If hit 'decently' (meaning not good enough to make it but close) you get safe.
If you hit really bad and barely nick the 9 ball you get safe, or at least a long tough tester.
The biggest disaster is if you hit it fat which is just going to sell out completely.
Bear in mind over this large distance the cue ball curves quite a bit. And it's worse if the pocket
forces you to elevate. You might start out aiming to whiff the 9 by half a ball.
If I were coaching like an APA 4 in this situation I'd have them kick firmly.
On our local tables, high inside and about 2 ball widths south of the side pocket, will hit the middle
diamond of the foot rail. So I'd have them aim a smidge south of that hoping to kick the 9 in.
Firm so there's separation if it misses.
Carpet angel,
I believe you cb/ob speed ratio is off. In my experience, for the on to travel bak to middle table, cb comes back toto that end of the table too.
And I messed around with that shot last night. Slow Rollin th cb to tap on was surprisingly easy- coz I am a bit of a masher- but left a very east return safe. Cutting the ball is was damn near impossible.
Thinning it resulted in givin up bih more often than successful safe.
Sending cb/ob to opposite side rails was the best shot, for me.
I believe you cb/ob speed ratio is off. In my experience, for the on to travel bak to middle table, cb comes back toto that end of the table too.
And I messed around with that shot last night. Slow Rollin th cb to tap on was surprisingly easy- coz I am a bit of a masher- but left a very east return safe. Cutting the ball is was damn near impossible.
Thinning it resulted in givin up bih more often than successful safe.
Sending cb/ob to opposite side rails was the best shot, for me.
Bike shorts, it's another one of those "all depends on how you spin it"... it happens as diagrammed
a lot, but it also fuсks up* plenty too ^^
If you spin more violently the cue ball hits fuller and travels less.
*not shown
Slow rolling I don't like... easy return safe, and you must trust the table.
On perk's table it would just be giving up ball in hand.
You can shoot this shot making sure if you miss, you miss short, with the right speed, you won't give up a easy shot.
On virtually ANY frozen or near-frozen ball on the short rail, I like this shot.
I think it's a pretty reliable 2 way but you do need some feel for it.
It's easier if the cue ball is much closer to a side rail than the object ball (which is the case here).
It's harder though if forced to elevate a little (which is the case here).
Just try the old famous spin-it-in-with-inside shot.
When you miss this shot at the correct speed, it almost ALWAYS gets safe (see below).
But the correct speed is a matter of feel and depends on how much you spin a ball,
and the difficulty is compounded by jacking up over the corner pocket.
I'd still try it though. If hit 'decently' (meaning not good enough to make it but close) you get safe.
If you hit really bad and barely nick the 9 ball you get safe, or at least a long tough tester.
The biggest disaster is if you hit it fat which is just going to sell out completely.
Bear in mind over this large distance the cue ball curves quite a bit. And it's worse if the pocket
forces you to elevate. You might start out aiming to whiff the 9 by half a ball.
If I were coaching like an APA 4 in this situation I'd have them kick firmly.
On our local tables, high inside and about 2 ball widths south of the side pocket, will hit the middle
diamond of the foot rail. So I'd have them aim a smidge south of that hoping to kick the 9 in.
Firm so there's separation if it misses.
Kicking from here is a terrible idea!
You are 9 feet away and you might miss the whole ball, or leave it straight in. Very low percentage of succeeding . If the safety is this tough, go down trying to win the game. I would try and cut it in, bank it one rail, or bank it 4 rails making sure If I miss, I miss short.
My opinion is you don't. The chance you pull a safe *AND* your opponent misses the bank is a lower percent than shooting to make the shot.
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play it four rails and you'll make a very interesting DISCOVERY....'The TIP Teacher'
Aim/Align straight at the ball, then pivot "one tip" to the right (experiment, it may be 1.5 on your table) and hit the ball with the speed to "two rail" the 9 Ball back to the end rail where you're shooting from. Do the same thing and play it four rails and you'll make a very interesting DISCOVERY....'The Game is the Teacher' ...this technique is shown in the 'TIP Banking Secrets' video at www.cjwiley.com if anyone's interested.....PPV is under 5.
Aim/Align straight at the ball, then pivot "one tip" to the right (experiment, it may be 1.5 on your table) and hit the ball with the speed to "two rail" the 9 Ball back to the end rail where you're shooting from. Do the same thing and play it four rails and you'll make a very interesting DISCOVERY....'The Game is the Teacher' ...this technique is shown in the 'TIP Banking Secrets' video at www.cjwiley.com if anyone's interested.....PPV is under 5.
If the 9 is on the rail, I'd try to cut/spin it in with inside, aiming a bit to the right of the object ball because I'll definitely get some swerve from being slightly jacked-up. It's not a high-percentage shot, but it's not bad and gives me a chance to win the game right there, along with the possibility of leaving my opponent a tough shot.
If the 9 is just a bit off the rail, I'd probably attempt to play defense with a half ball hit and outside to split the CB and OB.
In either case, I'd be pretty irate if I left myself that shot or my opponent left me there by accident after missing the 9.
If the 9 is just a bit off the rail, I'd probably attempt to play defense with a half ball hit and outside to split the CB and OB.
In either case, I'd be pretty irate if I left myself that shot or my opponent left me there by accident after missing the 9.
Maybe I wouldn't shoot it this way on a 9 footer,but on an 8 footer or bar table like I'm used to seeing where I live,I'm probably cutting that in,because I used to practice shots like this.
It all depends on,
How I'm feeling at the time.
What the competitive situation is.
Distance off the rail,if frozen I'm swinging for sure,same goes for an inch or more off the rail. Where I have problems is close but not frozen,up to maybe an inch off the rail.
Another shot I'd look at is a CJ special,but I didn't learn this shot from him.
Aim at the left half of the 9,with a sharp stroke and a healthy dose of high RIGHT. The cue ball will catch the rail,dive to the side rail,then reverse and should stay pretty close to the end rail,maybe going side to side but the idea is to hold the cue ball close to the end rail. If you make the 9,you're good to go,if not you might leave your opponent a tough shot.
Plus,you can hit it bad and make the 9 on a double bank.
CJ's version of this shot in in the preview of his banking video. Tommy D.
It all depends on,
How I'm feeling at the time.
What the competitive situation is.
Distance off the rail,if frozen I'm swinging for sure,same goes for an inch or more off the rail. Where I have problems is close but not frozen,up to maybe an inch off the rail.
Another shot I'd look at is a CJ special,but I didn't learn this shot from him.
Aim at the left half of the 9,with a sharp stroke and a healthy dose of high RIGHT. The cue ball will catch the rail,dive to the side rail,then reverse and should stay pretty close to the end rail,maybe going side to side but the idea is to hold the cue ball close to the end rail. If you make the 9,you're good to go,if not you might leave your opponent a tough shot.
Plus,you can hit it bad and make the 9 on a double bank.
CJ's version of this shot in in the preview of his banking video. Tommy D.
Absolutely what He Said. Frozen OB on the rail is the best. If it was off the rail by an inch, then the other scenarios.
On virtually ANY frozen or near-frozen ball on the short rail, I like this shot.
I think it's a pretty reliable 2 way but you do need some feel for it.
It's easier if the cue ball is much closer to a side rail than the object ball (which is the case here).
It's harder though if forced to elevate a little (which is the case here).
Just try the old famous spin-it-in-with-inside shot.
When you miss this shot at the correct speed, it almost ALWAYS gets safe (see below).
But the correct speed is a matter of feel and depends on how much you spin a ball,
and the difficulty is compounded by jacking up over the corner pocket.
I'd still try it though. If hit 'decently' (meaning not good enough to make it but close) you get safe.
If you hit really bad and barely nick the 9 ball you get safe, or at least a long tough tester.
The biggest disaster is if you hit it fat which is just going to sell out completely.
Bear in mind over this large distance the cue ball curves quite a bit. And it's worse if the pocket
forces you to elevate. You might start out aiming to whiff the 9 by half a ball.
If I were coaching like an APA 4 in this situation I'd have them kick firmly.
On our local tables, high inside and about 2 ball widths south of the side pocket, will hit the middle
diamond of the foot rail. So I'd have them aim a smidge south of that hoping to kick the 9 in.
Firm so there's separation if it misses.
I am gonna disagree: I would estimate 60% chance of executing the shot leaving cb/ ob on different side rails, 50% chance of opponent making the bank (due to poor bank angle or opponent's poor shooting). That is a 25% probability of suck sess.
I would estimate my probability of making the cut/ bank at 10%, best...leaving a lucky safe after missing at 10%, best. That is 5% probability of success.
I think the shot Tommy is talking about is sort of seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wJ8qUSrsmI&noredirect=1
Basically, tons of inside slows down the CB and lets it hit the side rail with spin
that brings it back up towards the head rail. So the cue ball should stick towards the head rail
and the object ball should be near the foot rail.
The problem is if you hit it "pretty good" instead of perfect, it looks like the 9 would hang up near
the hole. It doesn't have much juice cuz the back cut is so severe. On the other hand it would be a little
less severe in our diagrammed example, than it was in CJ's video.
No way, give it a try before knock it. I'll try it myself tonight and if I'm wrong
I'll come back and admit it. Maybe I'll video.
You mentioned you'd cut it or fire at the bank.
I'm positive both of those are just about impossible and sell out.
If the ball is frozen, it's well-known that your chances of making it are FAR higher spinning it in
than trying to cut it directly hitting ball-first. And if you try ball first and miss it's gonna
barely be moving and should end up right in front of the hole. Meanwhile your cue ball goes butt-wild
up and down the table with no hope of getting safe.
The bank looks impossible because you can't beat the double kiss on the ball if it's frozen.
Maybe if it's off the rail half a ball and you hit warp speed. But not frozen to the rail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wJ8qUSrsmI&noredirect=1
Basically, tons of inside slows down the CB and lets it hit the side rail with spin
that brings it back up towards the head rail. So the cue ball should stick towards the head rail
and the object ball should be near the foot rail.
The problem is if you hit it "pretty good" instead of perfect, it looks like the 9 would hang up near
the hole. It doesn't have much juice cuz the back cut is so severe. On the other hand it would be a little
less severe in our diagrammed example, than it was in CJ's video.
No way, give it a try before knock it. I'll try it myself tonight and if I'm wrong
I'll come back and admit it. Maybe I'll video.
You mentioned you'd cut it or fire at the bank.
I'm positive both of those are just about impossible and sell out.
If the ball is frozen, it's well-known that your chances of making it are FAR higher spinning it in
than trying to cut it directly hitting ball-first. And if you try ball first and miss it's gonna
barely be moving and should end up right in front of the hole. Meanwhile your cue ball goes butt-wild
up and down the table with no hope of getting safe.
The bank looks impossible because you can't beat the double kiss on the ball if it's frozen.
Maybe if it's off the rail half a ball and you hit warp speed. But not frozen to the rail.
Wow!! Now this in my opinion was a great thread no bashing just straight opinions based off of an individuals playing experience. Thank you so much for all the positive responses. I think I will experiment with each of these decisions as they all seem to hold merit.
Thanks again
Chris
Thanks again
Chris