Same cue. My block letter Joss that I have had since 1985. The logo on that cue is in my signature.
The difference in veneer color is natural light vs non-natural light, same camera.
.
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~ Vintage Player ~
- Thread starter $TAKE HOR$E
- Start date
Same cue. My block letter Joss that I have had since 1985. The logo on that cue is in my signature.
The difference in veneer color is natural light vs non-natural light, same camera.
.
If that's the case, it's hard to tell who built these points. I think there were earlier threads on it, and the consensus is that it's a diamond series, 1981 to 1982. If that's the case, neither Stroud nor Scuggs had anything to do with it.
But, given that double wide off white veneer, it's not so certain, and the logo is not so certain either. It is possible it could have been earlier. But, given the collars, I don't think so. You want to do a close up of the joint collars? I don't think they will indicate early; I think they are too dark.
All the best,
WW
That's exactly the conundrum I have had all along with this cue. Early veneers, later rings, uncertain maybe earlier logo post Stroud (mid 70's)...but none of that is 100% sure.
Yes, we have talked about this before. I post it as an example of how things aren't as certain as we sometimes would like.
When I got it in 1985 the finish was already yellowed by the way.
I'll see if I can get some close ups of the collars. I am really crushed for time. Just got off work and getting on my bike. Probably will be out of town all weekend after work tomorrow.
I do think there is a good chance it is Diamond Series. But I also think it might go back to the mid-seventies.
No rush Doc, get on your bike and get some exercise and relaxation. Then post a close up of the collars. I'll then tell you when it was likely made. Joint inserts and pilots would help also.
To keep this relevant to this thread, the phenolic in the joint collars is a very good clue as to vintage when it comes to Joss cues. Rings, dashes, patterns, that's all BS. The material is key.
All the best,
WW
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Yes, materials help a lot. It may not always peg the maker, but helps nail down the era more.
Of course makers can use older materials, but obviously can't use materials not available yet.
So materials can tell a cue could not have been made before a certain time, but certainly could be made after that time.
We run into that with tribute cues. Old materials.
We also have to consider that with fakes.
It's not just about what we know but about how to use what we know.
Of course makers can use older materials, but obviously can't use materials not available yet.
So materials can tell a cue could not have been made before a certain time, but certainly could be made after that time.
We run into that with tribute cues. Old materials.
We also have to consider that with fakes.
It's not just about what we know but about how to use what we know.
I am no expert on vintage cues.
But many times when an unknown like this comes up someone will mention Verl Horn.
Any chance this is a Horn?
But many times when an unknown like this comes up someone will mention Verl Horn.
Any chance this is a Horn?
Well, this is a traditional style cue. And Verl made traditional cues. Not sure I've seen a Hoppe style cue from Verl, but I certainly wouldn't exclude him from the list of possibilities. Although I might lean to the Joss / JossWest theory, the point length, if nothing else, is similar to Verl's.
All the best,
WW
Well yes, that's the picture I posted lol
Ha...can’t believe I didn’t remember seeing that. The Hoppe ring and finish on the bottom is also another dead give away. Now all I gotta do is figure out what to do with it...
Ha...can’t believe I didn’t remember seeing that. The Hoppe ring and finish on the bottom is also another dead give away. Now all I gotta do is figure out what to do with it...
Text me so I can buy it
leave it to your son....My kids don't hunt but my oldest will get my Beretta someday
Stake-Horse
Hello my name is Bob Yanochik
I owned that cue since 1975,
Ill give u History
I purchased it off my best friend George Birtel (R.I.P.) for 150.00 It was like 6 months old.
ok life History of it.
It is a JOSSWEST, that had ivory joint stamped JW sideways on top of joint. (never seen one since that) It cracked a little on me and I had replaced buy Bill Stroud like 1980??
It came back with no Marking.
Thats why its nameless.....
Back then I didnt care about Sideways anything,lol
I had 4 shafts 2 were JOSSWEST (one I cracked breaking) I know but back then we did dumb shit.
so I did have Danny James make the one that is a little different taper.
I asked Steve to make me a STIFF shaft .
now the other 2 .
I was intrduced to Gus buy my friend Butch Witak
he had the 1ft Gambler Gus ever made..
RIP Butch..
At that time I drove auto parts all over the east coast for Keystone Auto in Pa.
so I ended up every week on one of my routes in Pendel Pa,
It was like 1 block away from Gus.s shop.
I use to stop and and hang with him ,maybe 2 a month,
sometimes we sat and had a smoke and then he went back to work..
he liked me cause of Butch I think.
And I am a likeable Guy,lol(pat on the back) lol
we were buddies with Gus Szamboti at that time and begged,and begged him to make me 2 shafts.
well guess what he did it for me and charged me 100 a shaft....
back in 1980 100 a shaft was outrageous..
and I do believe he priced it that high so I would say NO.
He did say I dont make shafts for other cues.
My answer to him PLEASE>>>>>.
He got tired of me begging.lol
I had that cue my whole life..
I can play so I not blowing smoke up ur butt..
I had 5 JOSSWEST, 2 gus Szambotis JOSS. other cues but I kept that cue to play with.
It was a Monster and u walked in the room and people looked at me cause it was a loud cue,lol
Bumperless Hoppe.
I quit playing pool and had the cue in a bedroon for alot of years.
Then I got interested in Collecting and selling cues with a good friend Cosmo Salerno.
he intruduced me to a man named Rich Sazalis from frackville Pa.
Rich called me and Said I got a guy in (Boston?) will give u like 2500 for it but he wants proof of Gus shafts.
I said I still have Box in came in and HE worked a deal out and sent me the money.
If I remember right it came to me arround Xmass 1980?????
I hope u understand that it was a big part of my pool playing in 25 years or so..
My name is Bob Yanochik #570-881-5335
I am still in AUW of seeing it since I sold it..
U have a winner Pal.......
Thank U for letting me share this with u,I always wondered about it
Hello my name is Bob Yanochik
I owned that cue since 1975,
Ill give u History
I purchased it off my best friend George Birtel (R.I.P.) for 150.00 It was like 6 months old.
ok life History of it.
It is a JOSSWEST, that had ivory joint stamped JW sideways on top of joint. (never seen one since that) It cracked a little on me and I had replaced buy Bill Stroud like 1980??
It came back with no Marking.
Thats why its nameless.....
Back then I didnt care about Sideways anything,lol
I had 4 shafts 2 were JOSSWEST (one I cracked breaking) I know but back then we did dumb shit.
so I did have Danny James make the one that is a little different taper.
I asked Steve to make me a STIFF shaft .
now the other 2 .
I was intrduced to Gus buy my friend Butch Witak
he had the 1ft Gambler Gus ever made..
RIP Butch..
At that time I drove auto parts all over the east coast for Keystone Auto in Pa.
so I ended up every week on one of my routes in Pendel Pa,
It was like 1 block away from Gus.s shop.
I use to stop and and hang with him ,maybe 2 a month,
sometimes we sat and had a smoke and then he went back to work..
he liked me cause of Butch I think.
And I am a likeable Guy,lol(pat on the back) lol
we were buddies with Gus Szamboti at that time and begged,and begged him to make me 2 shafts.
well guess what he did it for me and charged me 100 a shaft....
back in 1980 100 a shaft was outrageous..
and I do believe he priced it that high so I would say NO.
He did say I dont make shafts for other cues.
My answer to him PLEASE>>>>>.
He got tired of me begging.lol
I had that cue my whole life..
I can play so I not blowing smoke up ur butt..
I had 5 JOSSWEST, 2 gus Szambotis JOSS. other cues but I kept that cue to play with.
It was a Monster and u walked in the room and people looked at me cause it was a loud cue,lol
Bumperless Hoppe.
I quit playing pool and had the cue in a bedroon for alot of years.
Then I got interested in Collecting and selling cues with a good friend Cosmo Salerno.
he intruduced me to a man named Rich Sazalis from frackville Pa.
Rich called me and Said I got a guy in (Boston?) will give u like 2500 for it but he wants proof of Gus shafts.
I said I still have Box in came in and HE worked a deal out and sent me the money.
If I remember right it came to me arround Xmass 1980?????
I hope u understand that it was a big part of my pool playing in 25 years or so..
My name is Bob Yanochik #570-881-5335
I am still in AUW of seeing it since I sold it..
U have a winner Pal.......
Thank U for letting me share this with u,I always wondered about it
Stake-Horse
Hello my name is Bob Yanochik
I owned that cue since 1975,
Ill give u History
I purchased it off my best friend George Birtel (R.I.P.) for 150.00 It was like 6 months old.
ok life History of it.
It is a JOSSWEST, that had ivory joint stamped JW sideways on top of joint. (never seen one since that) It cracked a little on me and I had replaced buy Bill Stroud like 1980??
It came back with no Marking.
Thats why its nameless.....
Back then I didnt care about Sideways anything,lol
I had 4 shafts 2 were JOSSWEST (one I cracked breaking) I know but back then we did dumb shit.
so I did have Danny James make the one that is a little different taper.
I asked Steve to make me a STIFF shaft .
now the other 2 .
I was intrduced to Gus buy my friend Butch Witak
he had the 1ft Gambler Gus ever made..
RIP Butch..
At that time I drove auto parts all over the east coast for Keystone Auto in Pa.
so I ended up every week on one of my routes in Pendel Pa,
It was like 1 block away from Gus.s shop.
I use to stop and and hang with him ,maybe 2 a month,
sometimes we sat and had a smoke and then he went back to work..
he liked me cause of Butch I think.
And I am a likeable Guy,lol(pat on the back) lol
we were buddies with Gus Szamboti at that time and begged,and begged him to make me 2 shafts.
well guess what he did it for me and charged me 100 a shaft....
back in 1980 100 a shaft was outrageous..
and I do believe he priced it that high so I would say NO.
He did say I dont make shafts for other cues.
My answer to him PLEASE>>>>>.
He got tired of me begging.lol
I had that cue my whole life..
I can play so I not blowing smoke up ur butt..
I had 5 JOSSWEST, 2 gus Szambotis JOSS. other cues but I kept that cue to play with.
It was a Monster and u walked in the room and people looked at me cause it was a loud cue,lol
Bumperless Hoppe.
I quit playing pool and had the cue in a bedroon for alot of years.
Then I got interested in Collecting and selling cues with a good friend Cosmo Salerno.
he intruduced me to a man named Rich Sazalis from frackville Pa.
Rich called me and Said I got a guy in (Boston?) will give u like 2500 for it but he wants proof of Gus shafts.
I said I still have Box in came in and HE worked a deal out and sent me the money.
If I remember right it came to me arround Xmass 1980?????
I hope u understand that it was a big part of my pool playing in 25 years or so..
My name is Bob Yanochik #570-881-5335
I am still in AUW of seeing it since I sold it..
U have a winner Pal.......
Thank U for letting me share this with u,I always wondered about it
Wow...that right there is what collecting cues is all about. A story like that adds value to a cue that far exceeds a monetary amount. Thanks so much for the info and while we're both still upright I will for sure buy you dinner sometime and would love to hear some old war stories from that era...
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Thankx Guy
It was fun to tell it..
Remember those are Gus shafts so that makes it a very collectible item..
I’m 64 yrs old on Monday so had that cue a lifetime.
I hope u enjoy it and glad to see it’s still in around..
I got a few good stories on cues .lol
Someday I will post a few..
Right now I feel good telling that one..
It was fun to tell it..
Remember those are Gus shafts so that makes it a very collectible item..
I’m 64 yrs old on Monday so had that cue a lifetime.
I hope u enjoy it and glad to see it’s still in around..
I got a few good stories on cues .lol
Someday I will post a few..
Right now I feel good telling that one..