Why No 15 Ball Rotation Tournaments?

I'd like to see some of that myself. Watching some videos of Efren and Alcano play rotation really showed just how highly skilled these players are.

Johnnyt said:

IMO they don't want to play it because it's too much like work and too hard to cheat. This is one of the reasons Efern, Busti, Parica were so good at 9 ball when they first came to the U.S. If you cut your teeth on 15 ball rotation, you learn to control that white ball quick or sleep in the street. Johnnyt

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I agree with you, Johnnyt.

15-ball is tough: takes work and there are no easy paths to the win.
It's a superb practice game at the very least.

I love the way you stated it:

If you cut your teeth on 15 ball rotation, you learn to control that white ball quick or sleep in the street


I don't see words used so cleverly too often on this forum.
You managed to do it this time.

Johnnyt said:

Why never an answer to why there aren't any 15 ball rotation tournaments here in the states? I don't mean American Rotation. That's a good game for amature and "A" skill and below, not letting pros come in and take all the purse money...like Mike D IMO.

Call shot, no jump cues, no one foul BIH. Saying it takes too long to play don't buy it with me. Not when they are streaming 1-hole all over the place now. Put on as many 15 ball rotation as 1 hole tournaments and watch the 14.1 players comeback to tournament play along with the 8 ball and 9 & 10 ball players..

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Johnny tell me why you think American Rotation isn't good enough for the professional player. We do play call shot, no jump cues, one foul and we've eliminated racking problems and a lot of the luck on the break.

Johnnyt said:

It's BIH after the break, is it not? Not good to mix pros in with D, C, and B players. IMO. Johnnyt

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It is bih after the break, that's what takes a lot of luck and arguing out, it also helps to get the rack started quickly. Nowhere does it say you have to mix anyone, could be all pros and I think they would all love the format because they will know they had their shots. Unfortunately we're not in the position to host a big money added event to prove that but I think it would be as good a format as any other 15B rotation game.

You got my attention because it was like you're saying it it not good enough for the professionals but I can assure you after watching many of them play it, it is.

rotation

Johnnyt said:

IMO they don't want to play it because it's too much like work and too hard to cheat. This is one of the reasons Efern, Busti, Parica were so good at 9 ball when they first came to the U.S. If you cut your teeth on 15 ball rotation, you learn to control that white ball quick or sleep in the street. Johnnyt

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its not a bad idea here is what you mean?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb0Aorv8e30

maybe this will be the game to enter pro players and cash

Money Game

Here is a link to rotation money game between Alcano vs. Biado in PI. Biado giving up 50/70 points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ERmKfikN-g

Maybe some players don't know how to play the game....

Tell 'em it's just like 9-Ball, but there are 15 balls.

Instead of the 9 Ball winning, it's the addition of value marked on the ball.

First one to 61 points wins...

If they can't count... help them out. It might be to your benefit....

Here's an early morning match with 2 pros that Accu Stats did for us; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU6f7XvgUoM (Commentary volume kicks in at end of first rack)
I'm all ears to constructive criticism or ways to make it better.

I wish Rotation was the tournament game of the choice. Way more interesting than 10 ball. I would be satisfied with either classic rotation or America Rotation, though I prefer the latter due to use of the aggregate match score.

American Rotation

I love American Rotation and its rules. The BIH after the break gives everyone equal opportunity and it takes virtually all the luck out of the game with its rules. I really hope it catches on. Best game that has entered the pool scene in recent memory!

Best of luck Joe

Wedge

Hey, Joe --- my take on the Johnnyt comment about American Rotation being "a good game for amateurs and "A" skill and below and not letting the pros come in and take all of the purse money", is that the current format of AR allows and actually encourages any skill level player to compete with any other player within the (near perfect) rules you created --- and with no handicapping and no distinct league differences for pros vs amateurs, makes a lot of folks question if they can be a contender. AR is without a doubt - IMO - one of, if not THE best rule sets and games developed in the last few decades. Mixing the pros with even top level players will discourage most people from seriously thinking they can compete - with any game or any rule set. This has been one of my toughest obstacles in gaining interest in the game on an organized league level in my area - not necessarily at the local level, but even the best players have commented that their skills will be no real match IF they were to make it to the regional or the national level.

I love the game - the best rotation game and rules for all players. Maybe it's time to build and push the amateur portion of AR for those players below AA and Pro level. $.02

boogeyman said:

I agree with you, Johnnyt.

15-ball is tough: takes work and there are no easy paths to the win.
It's a superb practice game at the very least.

I love the way you stated it:

If you cut your teeth on 15 ball rotation, you learn to control that white ball quick or sleep in the street


I don't see words used so cleverly too often on this forum.
You managed to do it this time.

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The problem is, midway through the rack some one runs out all the high balls and wins. The game is
anticlimactic. Cribbage is a better game.

Mole Eye said:

I'd like to see some of that myself. Watching some videos of Efren and Alcano play rotation really showed just how highly skilled these players are.

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This^^... Efren playing the rotation ghost... surgery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSDBHLG5eyQ

Joe T said:

Here's an early morning match with 2 pros that Accu Stats did for us; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU6f7XvgUoM (Commentary volume kicks in at end of first rack)
I'm all ears to constructive criticism or ways to make it better.

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Joe, I just found this thread and I've just started playing in your league here in Des Moines at Big Dog's (site of the cue show and big tourneys in June).

I hate this game!!!:banghead::help:

I suck at it!!!!!!! It is frustrating, hard work, takes too much effort, too much thinking, too much work!

But, by God, I'm gonna learn it and get better at it and become a better player overall because of it....or else.:angry::angry::angry:

I love your business plan for it, too. I think you're definitely on the right track with this league.

Did I say I hate this game??!!!!!!!????????:speechless::speechless::



Jeff Livingston, so far 1 win for 4 matches.

K2Kraze said:

Hey, Joe --- my take on the Johnnyt comment about American Rotation being "a good game for amateurs and "A" skill and below and not letting the pros come in and take all of the purse money", is that the current format of AR allows and actually encourages any skill level player to compete with any other player within the (near perfect) rules you created --- and with no handicapping and no distinct league differences for pros vs amateurs, makes a lot of folks question if they can be a contender. AR is without a doubt - IMO - one of, if not THE best rule sets and games developed in the last few decades. Mixing the pros with even top level players will discourage most people from seriously thinking they can compete - with any game or any rule set. This has been one of my toughest obstacles in gaining interest in the game on an organized league level in my area - not necessarily at the local level, but even the best players have commented that their skills will be no real match IF they were to make it to the regional or the national level.

I love the game - the best rotation game and rules for all players. Maybe it's time to build and push the amateur portion of AR for those players below AA and Pro level. $.02

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re bolded part...

As an amateur who just started this, I must disagree with separating the different levels. I would not have joined if the league was just others at my skill level, because what would be the point of difference? What would I gain but another night out doing pretty much the same thing?

This league, imho, is for players who want to improve. It is not for those whose have big-guy-in-little-pond egos that they want to preserve.

I think there are lots of players who want to notch up a level or two and this league can help with that, from what I've seen so far. (I may change my mind by the end of summer)

Anyway, just wanted to say my piece.


Jeff Livingston