Break cue question

Three.Two.N.D. · Jul 7, 2015

Hello AZB. I was in need of a break cue so I put a samsara tip on my old Joss cue. Been working on my break with it and it is getting better. Question is would I see a huge improvement from my break now if I was to switch to a cue built to be a breaker (i.e. predator bk or custom break)? I am not asking for which break cue is best cuz I know there are many threads on that subject. Thanks all

KMRUNOUT · Jul 7, 2015

I've tried every scenario with break cues, not break cues, regular players to break, etc.

If you have a reasonably well constructed cue with a break-appropriate tip on it, you are not suddenly going to see a giant increase in your break *power*. Honestly if you get a 5% increase, that would really be something (and unlikely). However, there are a couple of areas where you definitely will see a benefit:

1) CONTROL!!! Some break cues (Predator, OB, not sure which others) have low deflection shafts. This is actually a huge benefit on the break. Because we are hitting hard, and often with non-standard technique (compared to a regular shot), there is no chance of being as accurate on the cue ball. if you hit a bit left of center, for example, you may deflect the cue ball quite a bit to the right, resulting in a less than square hit. To me, 85% of the break *quality* is how *good* you hit the head ball, not how hard. A low deflection shaft really may a tool that is best used on the break!

2) Reliability. By using a dedicated breaker, you remove some of the punishment that your tip sustains. You can also use a tip more appropriate for breaking on the breaker, and your favorite playing tip on the player. Looks like you already have this benefit, so you won't gain much there.

3) Balance, etc. A cue like the BK3 has a balance that favors breaking. I actually like the BK2 better in this regard. Still, it is nice to have the weight a little more in the rear of the cue. This is so that if you swing off line, you are still moving the mass of the cue, rather than moving the cue *around* the mass, if that makes sense. Also, if you like breaking hard, the BK3 in particular has a great finish on it for breaking...the smooth satin finish extends all the way down the shaft and back up the butt all the way to the handle. This means if you are like me or any big power breaker, and in particular have the style of keeping your bridge hand glued to the table, (think Shane, Thorsten, some others), and have a long follow through, it helps eliminate binding on your hand as you follow way through. I actually have a burn mark on the biggest knuckle of my left thumb from breaking (with other break cues).

In your case, I think the main benefit will be better cue ball control, specifically if you go with a Low Deflection cue like Predator and OB. I have a BK3 and a hybrid X Breaker butt with OB break shaft in my case at all times. The BK3 for certain hits the hardest, and offers excellent control. The OB setup offers a better balance (thanks to me) and feel (thanks to Samsara and OB), but maybe doesn't explode the rack quite as well. If you break very hard, the difference in speed doesn't matter. If you, like the majority of people, do NOT break as hard as you would like, the BK3 really shines. No other cue I've tried has such a great result when you put it in the hands of say a girl that breaks 16mph at her best. Somehow, it just delivers RESULTS. Balls go in!!

Hope this helps. PM me if you want more info.

Edit: Here is me breaking with the X-Breaker butt/ OB shaft at Snookers. If you break like this, the two cues I mentioned will be phenomenal. This break is at the 8:00 mark, and I hit it 18.4 mph.

https://youtu.be/YONMFmjVXFc?t=8m

KMRUNOUT

Bob Jewett · Jul 7, 2015

Three.Two.N.D. said:
Hello AZB. I was in need of a break cue so I put a samsara tip on my old Joss cue. Been working on my break with it and it is getting better. Question is would I see a huge improvement from my break now if I was to switch to a cue built to be a breaker (i.e. predator bk or custom break)? I am not asking for which break cue is best cuz I know there are many threads on that subject. Thanks all

Depending on how tight the rack is more speed/power may not be needed and may actually hurt.

KMRUNOUT · Jul 7, 2015

Bob Jewett said:
Depending on how tight the rack is more speed/power may not be needed and may actually hurt.

Bob,

Not sure if you watched the break video I linked. I appears that I am hitting the rack not that hard. I used the app to determine that this was 18.4 mph. Clearly I hit the rack dead solid. I believe there are almost no 9 ball situations that require more speed than that. In 8 ball, it is nice to really pop that head ball on a 9' table. If you watch the original AccuStats 8 ball invitational, you will see Bustamante *crushing* the rack for 8 ball. That was with a Sardo tight rack, and the rack reacts like it is very well frozen. Busty is hitting them 28 mph+ and gets phenomenal results with amazing cue ball control. With todays magic rack, you can get good results hitting it softer too.

In a couple of weeks in the BCA 8 ball tourney, it will be agic rack optional on a Diamond bar box. I plan to hit my 8 ball breaks exactly how I hit this 9 ball break in the video. Very square, zero body movement, and not too hard.

Thanks for the advice.

KMRUNOUT

Three.Two.N.D. · Jul 7, 2015

KMRUNOUT said:
I've tried every scenario with break cues, not break cues, regular players to break, etc.

If you have a reasonably well constructed cue with a break-appropriate tip on it, you are not suddenly going to see a giant increase in your break *power*. Honestly if you get a 5% increase, that would really be something (and unlikely). However, there are a couple of areas where you definitely will see a benefit:

1) CONTROL!!! Some break cues (Predator, OB, not sure which others) have low deflection shafts. This is actually a huge benefit on the break. Because we are hitting hard, and often with non-standard technique (compared to a regular shot), there is no chance of being as accurate on the cue ball. if you hit a bit left of center, for example, you may deflect the cue ball quite a bit to the right, resulting in a less than square hit. To me, 85% of the break *quality* is how *good* you hit the head ball, not how hard. A low deflection shaft really may a tool that is best used on the break!

2) Reliability. By using a dedicated breaker, you remove some of the punishment that your tip sustains. You can also use a tip more appropriate for breaking on the breaker, and your favorite playing tip on the player. Looks like you already have this benefit, so you won't gain much there.

3) Balance, etc. A cue like the BK3 has a balance that favors breaking. I actually like the BK2 better in this regard. Still, it is nice to have the weight a little more in the rear of the cue. This is so that if you swing off line, you are still moving the mass of the cue, rather than moving the cue *around* the mass, if that makes sense. Also, if you like breaking hard, the BK3 in particular has a great finish on it for breaking...the smooth satin finish extends all the way down the shaft and back up the butt all the way to the handle. This means if you are like me or any big power breaker, and in particular have the style of keeping your bridge hand glued to the table, (think Shane, Thorsten, some others), and have a long follow through, it helps eliminate binding on your hand as you follow way through. I actually have a burn mark on the biggest knuckle of my left thumb from breaking (with other break cues).

In your case, I think the main benefit will be better cue ball control, specifically if you go with a Low Deflection cue like Predator and OB. I have a BK3 and a hybrid X Breaker butt with OB break shaft in my case at all times. The BK3 for certain hits the hardest, and offers excellent control. The OB setup offers a better balance (thanks to me) and feel (thanks to Samsara and OB), but maybe doesn't explode the rack quite as well. If you break very hard, the difference in speed doesn't matter. If you, like the majority of people, do NOT break as hard as you would like, the BK3 really shines. No other cue I've tried has such a great result when you put it in the hands of say a girl that breaks 16mph at her best. Somehow, it just delivers RESULTS. Balls go in!!

Hope this helps. PM me if you want more info.

Edit: Here is me breaking with the X-Breaker butt/ OB shaft at Snookers. If you break like this, the two cues I mentioned will be phenomenal. This break is at the 8:00 mark, and I hit it 18.4 mph.

https://youtu.be/YONMFmjVXFc?t=8m

KMRUNOUT

Thanks for the info KMRUNOUT! Nice break too. Good luck at BCA

KMRUNOUT · Jul 7, 2015

Thanks a lot! Lots of Break Rak practice haha! I used to be able to squat the cue ball like that at 26mph. Not so much anymore.

KMRUNOUT

AtLarge · Jul 7, 2015

KMRUNOUT said:
... Some break cues (Predator, OB, not sure which others) have low deflection shafts. This is actually a huge benefit on the break. ...

That depends. For break cues, I think it's desirable to have a match between one's breaking bridge length and the shaft's natural pivot length. Then, an unintended off-center hit on the cue ball (unintended back-hand english) is more likely to result in the cue ball going where intended. Some players use a longer-than-normal bridge length for the break shot. For them, a shaft with a long natural pivot length, as on an LD shaft, might be better on the break cue. But a shaft with a shorter natural pivot length, as on a non-LD shaft, should be better on break cues bridged at a normal (short) length.

9Ballr · Jul 7, 2015

KMRUNOUT said:
3)Balance, etc. A cue like the BK3 has a balance that favors breaking. I actually like the BK2 better in this regard. Still, it is nice to have the weight a little more in the rear of the cue. This is so that if you swing off line, you are still moving the mass of the cue

Most break cues I have tried are forward balanced.
In either case I much prefer a forward balanced break cue than the others.
It - for me - makes my breaks just a tad more powerful as the cue wants to fall forward and I just have to push it in the right direction.

I recommend the Pechauer break cue. It is amazing.

KMRUNOUT · Jul 7, 2015

9Ballr said:
Most break cues I have tried are forward balanced.
In either case I much prefer a forward balanced break cue than the others.
It - for me - makes my breaks just a tad more powerful as the cue wants to fall forward and I just have to push it in the right direction.

I recommend the Pechauer break cue. It is amazing.

Funny...the Pechauer cue is specifically one I hate. The exaggerated forward balance ruins my ability to strike the cueball effectively. If you don't break too hard, or are very short, it might work. Of course, personal preference is important. However every really good breaker I see tends to favor the more rear balanced cue. I'm tall (6' 2.5"), so I like the rear balance. I believe you need to have a more perfect stroke to not get into trouble with a very forward balanced cue. The physics simply say it is not as easy to direct the mass of the cue accurately if you are pivoting around some fulcrum.

For the OP, if you try a Pechauer and a BK2, you will immediately see the difference in forward vs rear balance on the break cue. You should try both and see what feels best to you.

KMRUNOUT

dr_dave · Jul 7, 2015

AtLarge said:
That depends. For break cues, I think it's desirable to have a match between one's breaking bridge length and the shaft's natural pivot length. Then, an unintended off-center hit on the cue ball (unintended back-hand english) is more likely to result in the cue ball going where intended. Some players use a longer-than-normal bridge length for the break shot. For them, a shaft with a long natural pivot length, as on an LD shaft, might be better on the break cue. But a shaft with a shorter natural pivot length, as on a non-LD shaft, should be better on break cues bridged at a normal (short) length.

For those interested, a lot more info on this topic can be found on the cue natural pivot length resource page.

And for other good info related to thoughts in this thread, see the break technique and equipment advice.

Enjoy,
Dave

measureman · Jul 7, 2015

I like to hit the rack as hard as I can.Maybe it's not the most effective way to break but I like to see the cue ball hop in the air and stop at middle table (most of time not always)
and the balls scatter.
So i bought an $85 break cue and had a white diamond tip put on it.
This way I can break with total abandon and not worry about damage to my playing cues.
:smash::smash::smash::smash:

Break cue question

Three.Two.N.D.

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