I’m going to look at a Gold Crown today (Likely a GC III) and the owner doesnt know if the slate is 1 or 3 pieces. Is there an easy way to tell without removing the felt?
Gold Crown Question
- Thread starter FeelDaShot
- Start date
No matter what version it is: it is a 3 piece slate.
Here is the service manual for GC3, be careful and good luck to you!
Trent from Toledo
All Brunswick tables should have 3-piece slates, even the antique models. If the table has been set up for a while, you can run your fingers over the cloth where the slate seam is - which is 2-2/3 diamonds up from the end rails on both ends, and you can often feel the seams. Generally speaking, only 7-foot and 8-foot coin-op tables have 1 piece slates, but there are exceptions, particularly for older custom made tables. You do NOT want to purchase a bigger table with 1-piece slate - it is a nightmare to move!
Excellent, thanks guys! Are three guys enough to move a table in a pickup you think? (No stairs involved)
If completely disassembled, yes.
You need to hire a table mechanic and disassemble the table, or at least have someone who has carpentry skills and has disassembled and moved tables before. Then, you only need 2 strong men to pick up and move each piece of slate (200 pounds). The Gold Crown frame is going to be at least another 200 pounds, even once the leg pedestals are removed.
You do NOT want to try to move out the table in one piece without disassembling, regardless of how many men you have to help you. Trying to do that, you can very easily do damage to the rails/aprons by trying to lift up the entire weight of the table by the rails or aprons.
For resetting up the table once you get it home, you most certainly need an experienced table mechanic to do the job even if you re-using the same cloth, if you want it to play right!
I dunno, I think anyone who has some basic skills and does a ton of research can do a good job.
BUY THE SIMONIS INSTALLATION DVDS!!!! NOT JOKING < DO IT!!!
Then download the PDF Realkingcobra's how to level a 3 piece slate table here: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=54538&page=6
its the last post on the thread.
The Gold Crown IMO one of the easiest tables to set up:
Assemble legs and stretcher,
place in permanent location
level the 4 leveling feet<<<starett 98-12 and 4' level or straight edge
then follow RKC method.
As for upholstering the rails and playing surface there is this:
A wise man told me this "99% of people out there stretching Simonis Cloth are doing it wrong, someone with basic skills and the installation DVDS can do a better job their first time than that 99% does every day" that man happened to be one of the dvds creators Glen Hancock aka Realkingcobra! Its actually his birthday today, send him some best wishes!
Many people ( myself included) have learned how to set up their own tables on here.
Step one is buying the right table and you hit the nail on the head on that one!
If you need any help or advice, call me during reasonable business hours and I would be glad to chat with you. go get that table!!!
Trent from Toledo (419)491-7476
2 able-bodied/grown men should be able to lift the about 225 lb slates. thats 125lbs each!!!??? do not carry them anymore than you have to, use a hand truck as much as possible, use moving blankets anywhere you are setting it down!!!
'no stairs' was the key phrase.
I tore down, loaded, moved, unloaded, and reassembled more
than a few of them by myself... in an El Camino.
The frame bolts together. And carrying slate is not the only option.
Dale(who enlisted gravity as an unpaid assisiant)
If they are big guys yes I just moved a 10x5 GC 1 snooker table yesterday with a pickup and three..... ok 2 strong young guys and a spotter for the stairs, completely disassembled myself with no experience whatsoever GC's are simple to tear down ... just make sure to mark everything as you do so putting it back together goes smoothly.
I will be putting it back together myself also except maybe for levelling the slates bands and resurfacing. 10x5 table weighs approx 1450lbs
+1 on the marking. Bring some masking tape and a sharpie.
Agreed...A good installation cost less than a chiropractor or emergency room visit. Do it right or don't do it. I would suggest the table gets looked at first...are the rails ok?..... is the slate a matched set or chipped/cracked. See what you are in for before buying.
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Thanks for the advice everyone! Especially Trentfromtoledo, you're too kind sir!
Here are my disassembly notes that I've gathered (I plan to disassemble and move myself):
1. Remove the pockets with an allen key and pull them out through the bottom. Mark each one with a sharpie and scotch tape.
2. Remove the bolts under the rails with a socket and put in a marked baggie.
3. Lift off the top of the table, name plate side first in order to clear the ball rack on the other side.
4. Flip the table top over onto the player surface
5. Remove the rails, castings, skirt, etc and property mark all pieces and parts.
6. Remove the felt and mark the slate locations.
7. Remove the 4-6 slate bolts in the two end slates (the 3.5" bolts, not the short ones).
8. Use a screwdriver to pry the two end slates away from the middle slates to release the pins. Only pry on the wooden part attached to the slate bottom.
9. Unbolt the middle slate.
10. Remove all staples in the slates.
11. Stack the slates in the truck with the playing surface up and 1/4" plywood between the slates to prevent damage.
12. Remove the frame and legs as needed to fit in the truck
The table looks great other than the old cloth and poorly cut pocket facings. I plan to replace the rail rubber even though it seems to be in decent shape, I'd just prefer new rubber to start with. I'm going to get K55 profile rubber, I've got a good supplier. I plan to hire a mechanic to provide the labor to replace the rail rubber and pocket facings. I would like to extend the subrails but that seems a little too involved for me. Anybody know what the largest pocket facings available are?
I might also have the mechanic install the Simonis Cloth. I'm not 100% sure yet. I had someone install the cloth on my old table and they did a poor job. I ended up redoing it all myself so I have a little experience and I already have the DVDs mentioned above. For some reason it seems like the mechanics around here never want to stretch the cloth tight enough.
Also, does anyone have a link to the GC manuals? I came across them last week in a post and I can't seem to find them anymore.
Once again thanks for all of the advice guys. Let me know if there is anything I'm missing above.
Here are my disassembly notes that I've gathered (I plan to disassemble and move myself):
1. Remove the pockets with an allen key and pull them out through the bottom. Mark each one with a sharpie and scotch tape.
2. Remove the bolts under the rails with a socket and put in a marked baggie.
3. Lift off the top of the table, name plate side first in order to clear the ball rack on the other side.
4. Flip the table top over onto the player surface
5. Remove the rails, castings, skirt, etc and property mark all pieces and parts.
6. Remove the felt and mark the slate locations.
7. Remove the 4-6 slate bolts in the two end slates (the 3.5" bolts, not the short ones).
8. Use a screwdriver to pry the two end slates away from the middle slates to release the pins. Only pry on the wooden part attached to the slate bottom.
9. Unbolt the middle slate.
10. Remove all staples in the slates.
11. Stack the slates in the truck with the playing surface up and 1/4" plywood between the slates to prevent damage.
12. Remove the frame and legs as needed to fit in the truck
The table looks great other than the old cloth and poorly cut pocket facings. I plan to replace the rail rubber even though it seems to be in decent shape, I'd just prefer new rubber to start with. I'm going to get K55 profile rubber, I've got a good supplier. I plan to hire a mechanic to provide the labor to replace the rail rubber and pocket facings. I would like to extend the subrails but that seems a little too involved for me. Anybody know what the largest pocket facings available are?
I might also have the mechanic install the Simonis Cloth. I'm not 100% sure yet. I had someone install the cloth on my old table and they did a poor job. I ended up redoing it all myself so I have a little experience and I already have the DVDs mentioned above. For some reason it seems like the mechanics around here never want to stretch the cloth tight enough.
Also, does anyone have a link to the GC manuals? I came across them last week in a post and I can't seem to find them anymore.
Once again thanks for all of the advice guys. Let me know if there is anything I'm missing above.
Best thing that's been said, have Three guys, this makes life easy. If your going up or down or left or right it's not that big a deal. Also, the slate width allows for a middle man, with room to move why not use that to your advantage?. It ain't worth it unless you have two gorillas, then two is fine. Everything else your going to come across is simple, and get a coffee can or two for hardware. A good box too. Then take them boys out for some beers/food and pool afterwards.
Johnnybgood
Banned
If it’s a GC III then the slates won’t be pinned. Best to score the seams with a utility knife and then lift either of the end slates. The seams will then separate.
I would also remove the foot end apron (ball storage and or return) first. Then it won’t matter which end of the top assembly you remove.
I have the GC III manual. PM me your email and I will send it.
If you are going to replace the cushions I would recommend going with the Brunswick Superspeed Cushions. If you go with another brand the profile won’t match. Even if it’s a K55 cushion. There are several threads regarding this. If you are going to extend the rails and correct the pocket angles then you could have the sub rails modified for a K55. Personally I would stick with the superspeeds.
In regards to cloth, if you have never installed cloth and more particular on a GC then I would recommend you have someone do it. Not that it’s incredibly difficult but, it is possible to make a $300 mistake. If you are confident then go for it.
I believe the largest pocket facings are 1/4”. Shimming the pockets like that without correcting the angles will make for a bad playing table and does nothing to correct the angles. There are people that you can send your rails to and have whatever you want done to them. Mark Gregory is probably the most reputable on this site but there are many that can do great work for you. I would recommend you get them done and don’t make the mistake I made. If you shim the pockets you will see what I mean and then you will have to start all over again. Unless you are happy with the play.
Another big thing to do is replace the floating nuts in the rails. Classic Billiards sells some real nice heavy duty ones. The flimsy ones that come with the tables tend to bend from over torquing. The Classic Billiards ones are hardened and thicker they also sell a hardened version of the domed locking washer. These are cheap items and I can’t recommend these enough. Especially since you are replacing the cushions.
You didn’t mention the frame. If you don’t have room to move it then you will have to disassemble that also. The cross members should be stamped but never the less wouldn’t hurt to mark them.
Also consider bolting the slates down to the frame with 1/4-20 philips head bolts and nylock with a washer. These holes also tend to strip out.
These are wonderful yet old tables. Many of the things I mention are things all owners go through.
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You have done your research,many good points have been made, you will be all good. Just a suggestion, use something like a moving blanket in between the slates as well. Something soft in between will not scratch them.
As for the rail work, I have been told a 1/4" 60 durometer neoprene facing is the largest that should be used, I stick by that for customers who may want a tighter pocket and dont have the $$$ for the extensions. That leads to this part: any bigger facing and it makes the pocket play funny. an that makes sense because the bigger facing, the more area that is not actually cushion rubber. While you are doin the cushions, you would do yourself a favor by having the mechanic to a proper sub rail extention with wood and skip the larger facing all together. People use the larger facing as a short cut to replacing the cushions as well.
I wish you good luck and dont forget that black permanent marker to mark EVERYTHING as you take it apart! What ever works for you, numbers, letters or both!
If a man thinks he can move a pool table, I think he can and I was that man at one point.
Trent from Toledo
P.s. I been doin this just about 6 years now and if there is one thing I have learned it is this: Bein a Pu$$y in this business will get you to just about the same place being stupid will....
I Keep hearing this term "gorilla" being used, I am 42 about 200lbs, 6'1" and decent shape. A healthy grown man should be able to carry at LEAST HALF of his body weight with out hurting himself.... Get in shape fellas!!!
As for the rail work, I have been told a 1/4" 60 durometer neoprene facing is the largest that should be used, I stick by that for customers who may want a tighter pocket and dont have the $$$ for the extensions. That leads to this part: any bigger facing and it makes the pocket play funny. an that makes sense because the bigger facing, the more area that is not actually cushion rubber. While you are doin the cushions, you would do yourself a favor by having the mechanic to a proper sub rail extention with wood and skip the larger facing all together. People use the larger facing as a short cut to replacing the cushions as well.
I wish you good luck and dont forget that black permanent marker to mark EVERYTHING as you take it apart! What ever works for you, numbers, letters or both!
If a man thinks he can move a pool table, I think he can and I was that man at one point.
Trent from Toledo
P.s. I been doin this just about 6 years now and if there is one thing I have learned it is this: Bein a Pu$$y in this business will get you to just about the same place being stupid will....
I Keep hearing this term "gorilla" being used, I am 42 about 200lbs, 6'1" and decent shape. A healthy grown man should be able to carry at LEAST HALF of his body weight with out hurting himself.... Get in shape fellas!!!
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Johnnybgood
Banned
It’s a 3 piece slate if it’s a 9’. If it’s been sitting and or played for a long time you “might” see the slate seams through the felt. That’s a might depending on how well the table was assembled. But, I have seen even well assembled tables that have been sitting for years show slate seams through the felt.
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