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Bavafongoul
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07-19-2019, 08:07 PM

Accept the fact there is avast difference between practicing alone versus competitively playing someone.
Practicing at home does sharpen oneís skills to a point but when the setting changes, well, so can you.

Playing on a table with reasonably tight pockets will develop you into a better player or else you will just
plateau. Only drive and commitment can push you into tacking and succeeding where others less skilled
struggle and become frustrated. A 10í table is the ultimate test but a 9í with tight pockets can come close.

The drawback is your home table becomes a golf course a lot of your visitors and friends may not enjoy.
If youíve got a very high handicap, the last thing you want to do is play a course like St. Andrews or Pebble Beach.
Youíll love the view but a pocket calculator will be needed to tabulate your scoring cuz sure ainít no muny course.


"My Pool Cues"

*Bob Owen Custom- Level 8 (s/d 4-24-16) - Flat Ivory Joint
*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 6 (s/d 5-4-16) - Flat Ivory Joint

*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 8 (s/d 2-23-15) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Ed Prewitt Custom '05 - Level 8 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Bob Owen Custom - Level 8 (s/d 5-4-14) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Tim Scruggs Custom (9-6-95) Level 7 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Runde Schon '85 Custom "R" Series (1 of 1)
*Palmer (Original) - '72 (All Cocobolo Wood)
  
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ThinSlice
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07-19-2019, 09:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavafongoul View Post
Accept the fact there is avast difference between practicing alone versus competitively playing someone.

Practicing at home does sharpen oneís skills to a point but when the setting changes, well, so can you.



Playing on a table with reasonably tight pockets will develop you into a better player or else you will just

plateau. Only drive and commitment can push you into tacking and succeeding where others less skilled

struggle and become frustrated. A 10í table is the ultimate test but a 9í with tight pockets can come close.



The drawback is your home table becomes a golf course a lot of your visitors and friends may not enjoy.

If youíve got a very high handicap, the last thing you want to do is play a course like St. Andrews or Pebble Beach.

Youíll love the view but a pocket calculator will be needed to tabulate your scoring cuz sure ainít no muny course.


I have to disagree with this concept. Tight pockets slowdown the stoke. Makes you play ultra conservative. It hasnít been good for pool in general. Everyone thinks....oh tight pockets do it must be tougher for those that donít play on them. Not exactly. I have had my best game on tighter pockets but thatís because I was on and didnít know any better. 4 1/2 are just fine. You will still miss and rattle plenty.


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Bavafongoul
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07-19-2019, 10:00 PM

I do not change my stroke on tight pockets. I mean pockets ridiculously tight from Pro Pocket Reducers.
The corner pockets on the front tables at Blue Fin are under 4”. The reducers make the opening tiny.

If you are curious, look at the thread for Pocket Reducers and look at the measurements in the photos.
Consistency is the most important thing I’ve found and so I don’t change my stroke with tight pockets.

Some might be tempted to slow roll some shots for added insurance of pocketing the OB, I.e, friendlier
pockets. My stroke really doesn’t change because a table plays harder from having smaller pockets.


"My Pool Cues"

*Bob Owen Custom- Level 8 (s/d 4-24-16) - Flat Ivory Joint
*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 6 (s/d 5-4-16) - Flat Ivory Joint

*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 8 (s/d 2-23-15) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Ed Prewitt Custom '05 - Level 8 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Bob Owen Custom - Level 8 (s/d 5-4-14) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Tim Scruggs Custom (9-6-95) Level 7 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Runde Schon '85 Custom "R" Series (1 of 1)
*Palmer (Original) - '72 (All Cocobolo Wood)
  
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07-19-2019, 11:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavafongoul View Post
I do not change my stroke on tight pockets. I mean pockets ridiculously tight from Pro Pocket Reducers.
The corner pockets on the front tables at Blue Fin are under 4Ē. The reducers make the opening tiny.

If you are curious, look at the thread for Pocket Reducers and look at the measurements in the photos.
Consistency is the most important thing Iíve found and so I donít change my stroke with tight pockets.

Some might be tempted to slow roll some shots for added insurance of pocketing the OB, I.e, friendlier
pockets. My stroke really doesnít change because a table plays harder from having smaller pockets.


Let me know where you are and if I can reach you then you have a match. Been playing too long to agree. If you can hit a bottom left shot into the corner at warp speed because thatís what it takes then thatís the player I want to learn from.


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Bavafongoul
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Question 07-20-2019, 01:47 AM

Fresno, CA.......and why would you want to hit a cue ball at warp speed with any stroke,
aside from say the break? I dunno about you but I try to move the cue ball around the table
Instead of sending it around the table. Pool is actually finesse and a stroke is part of that.
Naturally in a game, match, or tournament you will be confronted with a variety of shots.

Ditto again about you but I don’t remember the last time I stroked the cue ball at warp
speed. I recall hitting the cue ball with lots of follow but never warp speed. Same applies
to draw stroke. Cue strokes have a velocity chart and you really do not want to hang out
around the top. A pool stroke is a measured motion, not a 100 mph pitch. You know that.

You play the table within the limits of your stroke. For example, on a 9’ table, an object ball
that’s 6 diamonds away from the cue ball exceeds my draw stroke. So I either play a stop,
stun or follow stroke but not a draw stroke. If it’s a OB near the corner pocket where the rails
get involved, I’ll power a draw stroke 8 diamonds away but not when it’s a straight back draw.

I know the limits of my stroke so the map I use for running the table is for what I can do, not
what another player thinks they could do. Hitting the cue ball in a perpendicular fashion (sans
any wiggle or wobble) is the key to a straight shot. Unintended movement on the cue ball is a
surefire shot killer. And excess speed is another. Did you look at the photos I posted under the
Pocket Reducers thread? Under 4” are the CP pockets I play on and the sides are 1” wider. The
table is admittedly stingy but it helps to sort out the skill levels. Anyone can run 5-6-7 balls. It takes
more skill to own the rack & dominate it with safety control and running all the balls along the way.

I understand your point about trying a shot that is admittedly very hard using warp speed but again,
why would you want to? You can play the fiddle like Charlie Daniels or the violin like Itzhak Perlman.
Both type bow strokes are needed in pool but neither is performed at warp speed to produce melody
Might I suggest practicing a smooth, balanced straight line pool stroke extending 3-5” beyond the CB?


"My Pool Cues"

*Bob Owen Custom- Level 8 (s/d 4-24-16) - Flat Ivory Joint
*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 6 (s/d 5-4-16) - Flat Ivory Joint

*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 8 (s/d 2-23-15) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Ed Prewitt Custom '05 - Level 8 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Bob Owen Custom - Level 8 (s/d 5-4-14) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Tim Scruggs Custom (9-6-95) Level 7 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Runde Schon '85 Custom "R" Series (1 of 1)
*Palmer (Original) - '72 (All Cocobolo Wood)
  
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Swighey
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07-20-2019, 02:21 AM

Well it appears, from what I've seen, that snooker players have the edge over "American Pool" players at Chinese 8 ball, but the pool players have the edge over the snooker players when they enter American Pool competitions (with regulation, I.e not so tight, pockets). I think it's reasonable to assume here that they have limited pre-tournament practice at the games they don't usually play. Yes, C8B pockets are cut differently compared to "tight" American Pool pockets but both "play tight" and make an expansive game with a wider range of shots more challenging.

Anecdotally, it's my experience at the recreational level.of the game that good players who are super solid (and come from a snooker or E8B background) make gains on tight or difficult tables against those who put the hours in at the pool hall on regulation tables - but struggle in a race against those same players when the pockets are looser and allow a more knowledgeable player to run out the more difficult patterns more often

I think it also depends on a player's mindset.
  
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deanoc
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07-20-2019, 02:51 AM

Can practicing on tight pockets be a detriment?etc

yes

I am beginning to hate pool

My Gold Crown 5 has 4.5 pockets and tiny side pockets

I hate them,granted I am not such a good player,but a combination of tight pockets,practice pool,
and practicing straight pool is killing me

after 70 years of pool I am getting so sick of pool


Straight pool is making me afraid of long shots,tiny pockets are ,well no fun
and funsey pool is no fun at all

Afella is supposed to trade an older original table to me,but if he doesn't then
I am thinking of quitting
  
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rikdee
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07-20-2019, 04:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrctherake View Post
I dont care what table you play on, your fundamentals are gonna tell in you.

A tighter table just makes your lack of good fundamentals show moreso than the normal to easy tables.

Its really no more complicated than ^^^^^^^.
100% agree. If talking about pocketing, tighter pockets notwithstanding, top players simply hit the ball straighter on average. Stroke mechanics, not pocket dimensions, is fundamental to higher skill level.
If you play on standard pockets, just observe how your shots enter the pocket. Hitting points or the rails first?
  
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07-20-2019, 05:39 AM

Lassiter told me to practice on loose pockets and play for money on tight pockets.

Pool is all about confidence and you cannot gain confidence practicing on tight pockets all the time.

Bill S.
  
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07-20-2019, 07:14 AM

A quote I believe is attributed to Buddy Hall, may have been Ronnie Allen, when he was told that the pockets on the table were too big - "Bet more". That does seem to be a way to get the apparent size of the pockets to shrink!
  
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07-20-2019, 07:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cue4me View Post
A quote I believe is attributed to Buddy Hall, may have been Ronnie Allen, when he was told that the pockets on the table were too big - "Bet more". That does seem to be a way to get the apparent size of the pockets to shrink!
Big balls, small pockets....
  
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07-20-2019, 08:24 AM

You should change your conditions according to what you are looking to achieve.

Struggling with getting your technique sharpened up? Play on tight pockets.

Want to improve positivity, flow and positional play? Play on normal sized pockets.

Already running 10-packs on a normal table? Tighten up those pockets.

Struggling with holding your nerve under pressure? Play on normal sized pockets to get used to not choking..
  
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07-20-2019, 08:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cue4me View Post
A quote I believe is attributed to Buddy Hall, may have been Ronnie Allen, when he was told that the pockets on the table were too big - "Bet more". That does seem to be a way to get the apparent size of the pockets to shrink!
Yep.


*All pool shooting successes or failures must be answered in terms of aiming and speed control. Nothing else. You gotta' eat, sleep, breathe it, and live it.*
  
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07-20-2019, 08:36 AM

I would think that tighter pockets will help anyone progress faster. I tend to think that if a person is discouraged because of a lack of success on tight pockets then he, or she, should just think of this as another plateau to the next level. Another words, just keep working at it, and it will become easier with time. In my opinion that's why the Asian kids are so good, they love challenges.
  
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07-20-2019, 09:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanoc View Post
Can practicing on tight pockets be a detriment?etc

yes

I am beginning to hate pool

My Gold Crown 5 has 4.5 pockets and tiny side pockets

I hate them,granted I am not such a good player,but a combination of tight pockets,practice pool,
and practicing straight pool is killing me

after 70 years of pool I am getting so sick of pool


Straight pool is making me afraid of long shots,tiny pockets are ,well no fun
and funsey pool is no fun at all

Afella is supposed to trade an older original table to me,but if he doesn't then
I am thinking of quitting
Dean,

I'm sure you have connections with MG and RKC... Have one of them trade your rails for some looser ones of the right kind from another like table. Plenty of people here
want to tighten up their table, and if you can find one of them that works .. just exchange rails (just rubber, I mean) Or, just buy some new rubber..

I don't know why anyone would change a whole table, when all they "want" / "need"
is looser pockets. Probably won't make you happier with your game, but maybe??

If you were closer, I'd gladly take that table off your hands!

Regards,

TD
  
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