I always remember the pool halls being fairly empty in the summer months,but you could always count on the winter months for plenty of action,i remember hopeing all the time for snow,school would be closed and i could make a fast 100 or so and go right to the pool hall and put it in action,i guess that was some of the fun times growing up,but for so many of the past years pool does not even come back to life in the winter months anymore like it used to,i hope jay is right,i wish pool makes another come back!
where have all the pool players gone
- Thread starter bmoretallpaul
- Start date
mlalum
Banned
Not to mention than whenever some pool player gets to the point of running three balls he or she is then entitled to call all casual and league pool players BANGERs. Kind of the opposite of what they should be doing to help the game/sport. Good players offer up nothing but disdain for recreational players. Not very smart. It's the top end of the pool food chain that has been killing for years any potential for pool to be respected by the BANGERS who could raise the game/sport up to a successful business proposition. There are reasons why there is no demand for professional pool, why pool halls are going under, why no smart business person will ever put money into pool. The so called players need to take a hard look at themselves and then reassess the situation. There is no successful sports franchise where the inmates run the asylum.
If you want to find something to save the game/sport go down to your local pool hall and order something other than water. Talk is cheap. I've tried to encourage the business people in this industry that the way to save it is to stop spending so much investment/resources with the pros and put it at the grassroots where it could potentially do some good: pool rooms, leagues, regional tournaments. Before the "players'' kill off the game/sport for good.
Another view on the subject. As I grew up, I began frequenting a pool room around age 12. The manager told the beat cop (remember them?) I was his grandson. In the room was Irving Crane. He became my hero at an early age. As time went on, the room closed and pool moved to the suburbs. The new room also was frequented by Irv. Then came Mike Sigel, Larry Hubbart, Gil Finele, Charlie Dirisio and many other local greats. A few years later, Ron (Julio) Casanzio, Roy Ruffin and Pat Howey showed up. I learned from them. Directly or indirectly. There were lots of guys like me trying to be the next "Deacon" or "Captain Hook".
Now, I look around the room. There is virtually no one there to walk up to me and ask for a race to seven for a $20 bill. Not even a kid wanting the orange crush, all the breaks and two on the wire. No one asks why I played one shot rather than another easier shot. Position? I've got my jump cue in the case, who needs to learn position. Even worse, learn some basics of three cushion billiards? Are you nuts? One pocket? Too boring. Later, the same people discuss why pool is dying in our room.
Guess the changes in the game and our pool room have taken a toll. I'm a victim. Used to play nearly every day. Now, maybe once a week. Sure I play one night each of BCAPL and APA. It's not the same. Unlike Jay, I don't feel it ever will be. Sorry for the sad evaluation. JMHO.
Lyn
Now, I look around the room. There is virtually no one there to walk up to me and ask for a race to seven for a $20 bill. Not even a kid wanting the orange crush, all the breaks and two on the wire. No one asks why I played one shot rather than another easier shot. Position? I've got my jump cue in the case, who needs to learn position. Even worse, learn some basics of three cushion billiards? Are you nuts? One pocket? Too boring. Later, the same people discuss why pool is dying in our room.
Guess the changes in the game and our pool room have taken a toll. I'm a victim. Used to play nearly every day. Now, maybe once a week. Sure I play one night each of BCAPL and APA. It's not the same. Unlike Jay, I don't feel it ever will be. Sorry for the sad evaluation. JMHO.
Lyn
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I will say it one more time. The game of pool is not going away. Not anytime soon and probably not ever. There is a reason why in almost all large homes owned by wealthy people, a pool table is a must.
No matter how good a kid gets at video games or whatever, when introduced to pool, many of them will become enamored of the game. The game will endure in one form or another for a long, long time. I suspect there will still be poolrooms when all the video arcades are closed. Oh, that's already happened. And we may yet see newer and larger poolrooms and game rooms in the future.
People will always be looking for ways to get out and socialize, and a pool place still fills the bill. Pool is a wonderful game for socializing, whether in a bar setting or a pool room. A well constructed pool room/sport bar is still a viable business and there may even be a resurgence in the near future. I contend that people will get tired of sitting around the house playing games at home, and watching stuff on TV. And not everybody is content to go to the movies or sit in a bar drinking. A well kept poolroom remains a good alternative.
People want and need a place to get out, meet other people, and socialize. That will never change. If you think so, you're not a good student of human behavior. Being cooped up all day/night long gets old fast.
No matter how good a kid gets at video games or whatever, when introduced to pool, many of them will become enamored of the game. The game will endure in one form or another for a long, long time. I suspect there will still be poolrooms when all the video arcades are closed. Oh, that's already happened. And we may yet see newer and larger poolrooms and game rooms in the future.
People will always be looking for ways to get out and socialize, and a pool place still fills the bill. Pool is a wonderful game for socializing, whether in a bar setting or a pool room. A well constructed pool room/sport bar is still a viable business and there may even be a resurgence in the near future. I contend that people will get tired of sitting around the house playing games at home, and watching stuff on TV. And not everybody is content to go to the movies or sit in a bar drinking. A well kept poolroom remains a good alternative.
People want and need a place to get out, meet other people, and socialize. That will never change. If you think so, you're not a good student of human behavior. Being cooped up all day/night long gets old fast.
mlalum
Banned
In all due respect continuing to say it doesn't it make it true. You could be right but there's nothing going on right now that would support your theory. One thing that's obviously true: pool won't disappear as a game. But making hopeful predictions based on an annual $2 million investment and mysterious and unquantifiable - "If it's done right'' - don't meet the tests of reality. Equally odd is the example of how every wealthy person has a pool table in their house. I've been in a lot of wealthy homes and I can state unequivocally that that claim is just not true. Opinions are fine. I have a lot of them. And i get slammed for a lot of em on this forum. I'm not slamming your opinion i'm just disagreeing and would like to see more proof when claims are made about the future of pool. I'd like to see a future but it's not going to happen with hoping. I find all that counterproductive to the goal we all have.
I agree with Jay. There's a book I read called "Bowling Alone." It's about the decline over the last few decades of social engagemant in the United States.
Joining clubs is down. Being a member of social groups is down. Meeting at the corner store to shoot the breeze over a cup of coffee before work is down. Generally civic engagement is down.
I think technology has changed so fast that we are out of equilibrium. The immediate response to a change is not the same as the long term response.
We will swing back soon, and just like the local food movement, local social engagement will become popular. Meeting at a public place and enjoying a simple yet rich activity that is accessible during any season to a broad range of ages will become popular...
I owned a pool room in the early 70's and my rent was $350.00 a month for a 12 table room. I made a lot of money for the time in the business at $.60 an hour per cue. Remember that is $2.40 an hour for four players and I got a $1.00 for a beer. My help made $1.50 an hour plus tips. The economics have just plain turned against the pool room. You need too much quality sq. ft. and the costs make it almost imposable to make a living. Some things can't be argued with or ignored. There is a limit what you can charge for pool and the other costs make a pool room very hard to open. The ones that do well are the exception but most who haven't already closed are starving as are the owners with little prospect of anything changing. It is nice to be positive but wishful thinking does not make it happen. What pool may need is to have it linked to other business as it was in the 50's and 60's. Pool rooms were part of bowling alleys in most cities and that is where many kids began to play. I doubt many parents would have ever let them play in a real pool room back then. It created a great starting point for new young players. Now most of the pool is in bars. At a point you have a catch 22, no new players no pool rooms. No pool rooms no new players.
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The Cue Ball?
I would guess that must be The Cue Ball, in Salem? Great pool hall and worth stopping in just to see all those Centennials and the carving of the one piece slate on the wall. The guy who owns it, Jim Leybold, has been there since 1963, and the last time we stopped in it was 11:30pm on a Saturday night and he was working the counter after running a tournament all day. If we get to the point where there is one pool hall left in this country, and we might, my money's on Jim. My take on the business is that the halls have been hit from many sides all at once. The current young generation is not that into pool. All things electronic have captured the interest of this generation, and a sport like pool which requires some talent, discipline, and practice time to improve just doesn't appeal to the vast majority of them. At the same time, the internet has taken a large part of the cue and table sales that most rooms rely on to supliment their income. You can buy a new table in our area on Craigslist for $1495 delivered and set up. There are many websites that can sell all the cues we have in our display case for 1/3 less because they have no overhead. It's hard to compete with them, and they're not going away. Rooms have to look to increase their sales in areas that the internet and big box retailers can't take away like food, alcohol, and service. Currently, I believe that the rooms that survive will be the ones that have the ability to cater to both far ends of the spectrum. We still have the serious players who love the game and always will as long as there is a good place to play. We also have the group who is social and looking 'for a good reason to drink on a Tuesday Night'. What we don't have is the big group in the middle that spent a lot of money on pool time because they and their friends thought it was kind of fun, and they couldn't think of anything else to do. That group is likely gone for a while, and adjustments must be made to survive, generally speaking. I agree with Jay, though, at some point it will swing back the other way. Hey, at least were not selling payphones and typewriters, right? Those ain't EVER coming back.
Dave Smith
I would guess that must be The Cue Ball, in Salem? Great pool hall and worth stopping in just to see all those Centennials and the carving of the one piece slate on the wall. The guy who owns it, Jim Leybold, has been there since 1963, and the last time we stopped in it was 11:30pm on a Saturday night and he was working the counter after running a tournament all day. If we get to the point where there is one pool hall left in this country, and we might, my money's on Jim. My take on the business is that the halls have been hit from many sides all at once. The current young generation is not that into pool. All things electronic have captured the interest of this generation, and a sport like pool which requires some talent, discipline, and practice time to improve just doesn't appeal to the vast majority of them. At the same time, the internet has taken a large part of the cue and table sales that most rooms rely on to supliment their income. You can buy a new table in our area on Craigslist for $1495 delivered and set up. There are many websites that can sell all the cues we have in our display case for 1/3 less because they have no overhead. It's hard to compete with them, and they're not going away. Rooms have to look to increase their sales in areas that the internet and big box retailers can't take away like food, alcohol, and service. Currently, I believe that the rooms that survive will be the ones that have the ability to cater to both far ends of the spectrum. We still have the serious players who love the game and always will as long as there is a good place to play. We also have the group who is social and looking 'for a good reason to drink on a Tuesday Night'. What we don't have is the big group in the middle that spent a lot of money on pool time because they and their friends thought it was kind of fun, and they couldn't think of anything else to do. That group is likely gone for a while, and adjustments must be made to survive, generally speaking. I agree with Jay, though, at some point it will swing back the other way. Hey, at least were not selling payphones and typewriters, right? Those ain't EVER coming back.
Dave Smith
I agree with this. i also think that, with all the cheap new and used tables around, more players are getting their own equipment for what would otherwise be practice time (expensive practice time). I play 95% of my pool time on my own table. When I was younger, I liked hanging around the pool room to see what would transpire. Now at my age, that's about the last thing I want to do with my time.
The recreational player of the old days, which formed the bulk of pool room attendance, seems to have been replaced by the league players.
On Friday night I was at a classic pool room that only had 3 or 4 tables going including ours. The room usually has league Monday - Thursday and the place is packed. It's a great room , good atmosphere, mujsic, beer, clientele and excellent equipment. If you want to see where everybody is on a Friday night, go to the multi-plex, the malls, and the clubs.
Face it, with the big screen televisions and Netflix, Facebook and all the game systems, more people are just staying at home.
Chris
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And, with respect to your first point, the opposite is true as well. The better a pool player becomes, the more he is kind of an outcast, a hustler. I think the mindset of us all is terrible. TD's don't let good, local players play in local tournaments.... there is just simply no incentive to play well other than a passion for good pool. Think about it, what do you get if you start to play really well? Banned from all the local tournaments, and only get to play other top players in the area? Pool is a total catastrophe on every level, it really is. And its as much my fault as all of yours... WE are all the culprits in this equation!
There are two reasons: unused space, and vanity.
Most things tend to go full circle. With so many pool rooms closing there's a ton of used tables out there and they aren't going to evaporate. As they sit in storage, the owners will become more and more receptive to lower offers to sell them.
As the economy changes so will poolrooms. More and more vacant rents out there, and as the price per square foot goes down based on supply and demand, it will once again become affordable to rent a space large enough for full sized tables. Just a matter of time IMO.
As the economy changes so will poolrooms. More and more vacant rents out there, and as the price per square foot goes down based on supply and demand, it will once again become affordable to rent a space large enough for full sized tables. Just a matter of time IMO.
it comes to money , darren appleton was the top money winner last year at $118,000, and had to beat the best in the world and travel all over the world, not a very good return to be the best in your profession . a young player starting out without backers or sponsors will struggle to sustain a sucessful playing career. theres just easier ways to make money for young kids (poker etc.) where i live pool halls are closing up left and right. Even the amateur leagues are down in memb.ers
You guessed it! Blatant plug here for the Cue Ball...If I ever make it as far south as Medford, I'll stop in. My best wishes to you, Jim, and all who somehow keep pool halls available to us...the great unwashed. :smile:
Yeah my parents have a big house and have a pool table in the games room. It only gets used when i go over there which isn't that often. I got my own house and own table. It is definitely a piece of furniture only.
lyn, i am sorry to say that you are correct. the so called pool leagues have killed pool as a whole. hell, you cant even get a game in the bar anymore because the pool leagues have the tables all tied up. i dont blame the bar owners. leagues do generate income which otherwise would not be there. oh, a sad state of affairs pool is.