ferrules

For strong, clean, good weight, easy to work, and plays good, you'd be hard pressed to find anything better than non-grain elforyn or Saber-T. Saber is harder, where Elforyn is medium hard.

That said, I prefer a good quality linen melamine. The stuff I use is hard, strong, plays good, stays clean, but it is a little brittle and isn't the snow white I prefer. I don't put much stock into material weight. By the time a ferrule is bored, threaded, and cut to size, none of them add appreciable weight. My dream material would be crispy hard, non-brittle, bright white, and clean. Doesn't exist, so I make compromises.

There is no need to thread a ferrule on a playing stick. A capped ferrule deadens the hit.


but, if it makes you feel better............ go for it


Kim

I like Masn Micarta these days.
Threaded through, .350 18 or 3/8 UNF.
Capped melamine or Saber T hit way too hard for SS steel collars or rosewood forearms or ebony. Way too much ping for me.
Juma hits bettef when capped imo. Too much difference in off-center hits when not capped. Make some mock-ups and test yourself. That way you find out yourself.
Don't use 5-minute epoxy unless customer is waiting. Wood glue and thin epoxy have been proven to be better than them.
I thread becaue pressfit ferrules eventually develop a gap at the bottom.

whammo57 said:

There is no need to thread a ferrule on a playing stick. A capped ferrule deadens the hit.


but, if it makes you feel better............ go for it


Kim

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There may be no need for YOU to thread a ferrule, and capping the ferrule may deaden the hit of YOUR cues, but to make blanket statement claims like that is short sided & naive. SW threads & caps their ferrules. BB makes shafts that don't even have ferrules. Who's right & who's wrong? I'd have to give both revered makers the benefit of doubt & assume they don't do things because it "makes them feel better". There's tried & tested purpose behind their procedures, and it would be a fool to think otherwise.

Joey touches lightly on the science behind ferrules as he notes the variance in hit between center ball & off center shots, as it relates to capped & uncapped ferrules. And that only refers to his tenon size & thread type. Change to a .312x18 tenon, or say my old .375x10 tenon, and the dynamics change dramatically. Capped may or may not be best. Threads may or may not be best. The tip choice, shaft taper, and shaft diameter all factor into how a particular ferrule & ferrule install technique perform. It's an infinite variable science with no absolution.

qbilder said:

There may be no need for YOU to thread a ferrule, and capping the ferrule may deaden the hit of YOUR cues, but to make blanket statement claims like that is short sided & naive. SW threads & caps their ferrules. BB makes shafts that don't even have ferrules. Who's right & who's wrong? I'd have to give both revered makers the benefit of doubt & assume they don't do things because it "makes them feel better". There's tried & tested purpose behind their procedures, and it would be a fool to think otherwise.

Joey touches lightly on the science behind ferrules as he notes the variance in hit between center ball & off center shots, as it relates to capped & uncapped ferrules. And that only refers to his tenon size & thread type. Change to a .312x18 tenon, or say my old .375x10 tenon, and the dynamics change dramatically. Capped may or may not be best. Threads may or may not be best. The tip choice, shaft taper, and shaft diameter all factor into how a particular ferrule & ferrule install technique perform. It's an infinite variable science with no absolution.

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We're not even talking about the pads. Fiber or carbon fiber.
Two materials not even talked about are Kevlar and paper micarta/phenolic.
Both durable stuff too but the colors are off .

I bought all the ferrule types I could, when I started up. Threaded capped ferrules with 18TPI threads seems to work really well.
Juma or T-34 works fine and gives a nice hit.
If a firmer hit is wished for, I use LBM, the one Schmelke sells is nice.
For break cues short G10 ferrules, threaded and capped are my favourite.
Sabre - T also machines nice.
The Ivoryine products are more expensive than regular LBM, but as far as I have understood it`s a LBM material?

No experience with Micarta and I would love to hear where you get it from in rod form Joey?

I use Aegis Capped ferrules....What are thoughts and opinions about Aegis? They seem to be durable and produce a nice solid hit. Just curious as to what others think?

Hard facts

Hardness testing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-xvN6W6xhQ
Weight table: http://www.dzcues.com/ferrules_4.html

M.G. said:

Hardness testing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-xvN6W6xhQ
Weight table: http://www.dzcues.com/ferrules_4.html

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2 of an endless number of variables. Weight is for uninstalled ferrules, so it's only a rough, general data point. For instance, you use a 1" capped Titan ferrule on typical 5/16-18 threaded tenon, and I use a 1/2" Ivorine 4 through ferrule press fit on a 3/8" diameter tenon. Who's ferrule is heaviest?

Furthermore, who's hits hardest? Feels most natural? Imparts more spin? Easiest to control? Now let's put a SuperPro tip on yours & an Elk Master on mine. Changes the dynamics yet again. How about an Elk Master on yours & SuperPro on mine? Let's give your shaft a 15" pro taper with 12mm diameter, and mine 13.25mm with an 11" compound conical taper. See where I'm going with this? Ferrules & ferrule install techniques are not so simple to quantify. If you & I use the same material and same install technique, but our shaft dimensions are notably different, then we will have totally different opinions of the material, and neither of us would be wrong. We based our opinions on our own personal experiences. The moral of my story is that you can dismiss it all & take a lazy, narrow minded approach, or you can delve into the subject and acquire an appreciation, if not understanding, of the endless possibilities. There's much more to a ferrule than the weight and hardness of the base material.

Since I mentioned Titan and Ivorine 4, let's do a simple hypothetical. In my comparison, I gave the Titan a 5/16-18 thread, and the Ivorine a 3/8" bore. Obviously the Titan is notably softer than the Ivorine, but at what point will the wall thickness of the Ivorine ferrule become thin enough that it has equal compression strength as the Titan? Now take it a step further & make that thin walled Ivorine longer, changing yet again the compression strength of the ferrule. At what point do the base material specs get parred or even trumped by the finished product specs? That's where knowledge and experience come into play, and material specs become nothing but general data. This is exactly why SW can thread & cap their ferrules while BB doesn't even use ferrules, and yet both create great playing cues. If anything, I will submit that the more of the material present, the more its material specifications affect the cue. That is the real truth.

JoeyInCali said:

.... but the colors are off .

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Dumb question maybe, but why not paint a ferrule if the material colour is off ? I know folks who use a black felt pen to make black ferrules, why not use a tough white high gloss paint to make an off one white. I realize that some plastics don't take paint well but some do.

Dave <-- also spelled colour properly

DaveK said:

Dumb question maybe, but why not paint a ferrule if the material colour is off ? I know folks who use a black felt pen to make black ferrules, why not use a tough white high gloss paint to make an off one white. I realize that some plastics don't take paint well but some do.

Dave <-- also spelled colour properly

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Paint won't stick.

qbilder said:

There may be no need for YOU to thread a ferrule, and capping the ferrule may deaden the hit of YOUR cues, but to make blanket statement claims like that is short sided & naive. SW threads & caps their ferrules. BB makes shafts that don't even have ferrules. Who's right & who's wrong? I'd have to give both revered makers the benefit of doubt & assume they don't do things because it "makes them feel better". There's tried & tested purpose behind their procedures, and it would be a fool to think otherwise.

Joey touches lightly on the science behind ferrules as he notes the variance in hit between center ball & off center shots, as it relates to capped & uncapped ferrules. And that only refers to his tenon size & thread type. Change to a .312x18 tenon, or say my old .375x10 tenon, and the dynamics change dramatically. Capped may or may not be best. Threads may or may not be best. The tip choice, shaft taper, and shaft diameter all factor into how a particular ferrule & ferrule install technique perform. It's an infinite variable science with no absolution.

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You're funny......

Kim

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

Hit is subjective. I think (IMO) that a capped ferrule hits harder and better. I get more feedback and feel from it. I also thread mine so I have a mechanical bond and a chemical bond. It has also been proven that capped ferrules are stronger. Just like everything else - you have to go with what you like, and what you believe in.

Capped ferrules are the work of the devil..........drops the mic and walks off the stage.

M.m.ma.ma.maama says Murray!

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murray tucker said:

capped ferrules are the work of the devil..........drops the mic and walks off the stage.

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yep agree there murray!

j2pac said:

Best ferrule I ever had IMO, was an Ivor-X ferrule that I purchased directly from Kerry Zylr. That ferrule is amazing. It's light, strong, and impervious to chalk. Don't know if you can still find the real stuff anymore, but it was/is really good IMO.
j2

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The real stuff is with me.
Unfortunately, it costs so much to get them made.
I have very few left in rod form.