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Cool 11-01-2019, 06:17 AM

Mark Williams eyes closed potting.
https://youtu.be/Pobc0qDwgz8
The first shot looks to be object ball last.
  
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11-01-2019, 07:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Lee View Post
Pete...Try breaking with your eyes closed (close them before you start your final backswing, and keep them closed, and your bridge hand on the table, until after the CB strikes the rack.) Then open your eyes, and survey the results (both in terms of CB control, and break results). That will show you how accurate (or not) your transition is, and whether you're tightening up on the break like almost everybody out there (not necessary). If you're still getting inconsistent results, try backing off on how hard you're trying to hit the break. Speed, timing and cue weight are the key ingredients for a better break.

For accurate kicking, use an upright stripe as your CB, and focus on the spot on the rail diamond, or cushion you're trying the hit, during that part of your PEP. Switch your eyes to the CB before you start your final backswing, and trust your stroke. Adjust speed and/or spin as necessary.

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
Scary Scott (I tend to Pop N Squat style break), but I'll give it a try. I know Max Emberle Talks about the cue ball last. And I do the eyes closed shooting sometimes too (mostly out of fear of how bad I'll miss lol).

Thanks Scott...
  
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yeah I think so too!
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yeah I think so too! - 11-01-2019, 08:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregcantrall View Post
Mark Williams eyes closed potting.
https://youtu.be/Pobc0qDwgz8
The first shot looks to be object ball last.


Definitely looked at the object ball last on that first shot, but it was an easy shot!(grin)

I had to watch the next video with Ronnie O too. Huge brass ones to ask what the prize for 147 was when he had eight points. Had he not gotten out then he would have looked pretty silly! Of course his opponent can't help having a bit of an "Oh crap!" look on his face.

Great to see you in the thread 435 posts after you started it!

Hu
  
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11-01-2019, 12:16 PM

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Originally Posted by ShootingArts View Post
Great to see you in the thread 435 posts after you started it!

Hu
January 21, 2013 Was my opening post.

Today there is no doubt that it works for me. It is one part of the overall routine. Finding the shot line then establish a solid shooting platform that gives mechanical advantage to the delivery system, is first. Focusing on point of contact and path through the ball goes with a precision delivery system. Getting it all makes for FUN!

I am all about looking for every way to improve. Lessons not only accelerated my improvements but gave me something I may never have accomplished on my own.
I noticed improvements in three students of John Schmidt after only a few lessons. They all said that John teaches cue ball last. Hmm could be a good time to hit him up for lessons.
  
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11-01-2019, 12:32 PM

I'm sure I USUALLY look at the cue ball last.

If you are lined up right with the cue ball and the object and have a straight stroke, then the cue ball is your only target.

If you hit it "correctly", all the other things should fall into place.
  
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11-01-2019, 12:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawaiianEye View Post
I'm sure I USUALLY look at the cue ball last.

If you are lined up right with the cue ball and the object and have a straight stroke, then the cue ball is your only target.

If you hit it "correctly", all the other things should fall into place.
well said and agree


A billiard table is that richest of metaphors,
by turns a theatre, an altar, touchstone, gauntlet,
ritual ground, a gunfighter's high noon, a refuge,
a verdant landscape for balls to scatter and rest in meaningful synchronicity,
a classroom, a karma dance, mirror of moods, a guide and trusted friend...

-- from grissim's "billiards"
  
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makes sense
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makes sense - 11-01-2019, 01:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregcantrall View Post
January 21, 2013 Was my opening post.

Today there is no doubt that it works for me. It is one part of the overall routine. Finding the shot line then establish a solid shooting platform that gives mechanical advantage to the delivery system, is first. Focusing on point of contact and path through the ball goes with a precision delivery system. Getting it all makes for FUN!

I am all about looking for every way to improve. Lessons not only accelerated my improvements but gave me something I may never have accomplished on my own.
I noticed improvements in three students of John Schmidt after only a few lessons. They all said that John teaches cue ball last. Hmm could be a good time to hit him up for lessons.

It makes a lot more sense to take lessons from someone with a similar game. It would be silly for me to take lessons from a typical nine ball player, I play a totally different style most of the time.

These days I live a long ways out on a farm and only get on a pool table occasionally. Looking for a back porch table now. However, I have decided that other than slight things my race has been ran. I'm not trying to improve anymore, just hold onto a little that I have.

One temptation, a REVO shaft. I need it about like an extra hole in my head but I have shot with a friend's 11.8mm REVO a few times and much to my surprise I like it. I'm more inclined to ignore such things. Tried the layered tips, went back to a dud. Started using them in the early eighties. Of course they were a mystery tip a couple friends recommended. I lived fairly close to Jensen Cues back then.

Hu
  
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11-01-2019, 03:12 PM

I "lifted" this from a page concerning bowling, but the concept applies to pool, as well:

"If you use a 3-point targeting system, line up your shot using the distant focal point for a couple of seconds, and then back to your closer target for a second, then deliver the bowling ball. (in the case of pool, the 3-points are the cue ball, the object ball, and the pocket or where you want the object ball to go once you have hit it).

Whether you target the dots, arrows, a board, pins, or any other place on the lane you need to focus on your target until you are comfortable and prepared to begin your approach. Once you are in your stance, you should focus on your intended target for a couple of seconds until your internal focus tension relaxes.

If you use a 3-point targeting system, line up your shot using the distant focal point for a couple of seconds, and then back to your closer target for a second, then deliver the bowling ball.

Once you're set up and ready to go, focus your eyes on your target and block out all external distractions. Don't think about the mechanics of your physical game, just bowl reflexively and react to the target as you release the ball (stroke in the case of pool).

When you’re a beginner, it’s most likely you will be looking at the pins when you throw the ball. After all, they are your ultimate target so it makes sense to look at them when you’re making your shot.

This is known as pin bowling, and although it can be effective, there are actually better ways to do it. Instead of looking all the way down at the pins, you should keep your focus closer to you.

Spot bowling is the preferred method, and this means aiming at the target arrows spread across the lane about 15 feet down from the foul line. If you aim your ball according to these seven arrows, you will have a much better chance of consistently hitting your target.

The reasoning behind this makes sense if you think about it. The pins are 60 feet away from you, while the arrows are much closer to you.

It is much easier to hit a target that’s closer rather than farther, and if you can hit the right arrow, your ball will most likely continue down that path and hit the right pin"

In my case, I use the cue ball as my "closer target" and the "distant target" is the contact point on the object ball or rail I'm trying to hit with the cue ball.

Last edited by HawaiianEye; 11-01-2019 at 04:55 PM.
  
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11-01-2019, 04:19 PM

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Originally Posted by DrCue'sProtege View Post
In other words, you are now a CUE BALL LAST player.

Correct?
Mostly, yes. I am in awe of hendryís cue tip stillness
And try to copy him. If his tip ends high, there is follow.
If it ends low, there is draw.
  
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11-02-2019, 07:15 AM

If I look at the OB last I might not hit the CB precisely where I want to.

If I look at the CB last I might not hit the OB precisely where I want to.

Unless the specific shot demands one or the other, I try to keep both in view (one of the reasons it's important for me to get as low as possible over the cue).

pj
chgo
  
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11-02-2019, 11:47 AM

I consider Barry Stark an excellent instructor and coach. He has a whole series of videos on YouTube that I find very helpful. However he considers cue ball last a flaw. He states as much in this video on flaws. https://youtu.be/gSDo2dJiGoo
He gets to cue ball last at around 5:45. I donít find his explanation of why object ball last is better to be very compelling. He has obviously been involved debating this subject. He emphasizes that you need to have your stroke so grooved and have confidence you will strike the cue ball as intended without having to look at. I get that and agree that a student of Barry will get to that in short order. His justification of object ball last seems to boil down to; Because it is the right thing to do.

While striking the object ball correctly is the objective, striking the cue ball precisely is necessary to accomplish that. Barry teaches how to accomplish that. I find it easier to accomplish when I focus my attention on where and how I strike the cue ball.

Establishing a stable shooting platform and grooving the mechanics will allow a player to hit where they are aiming regardless of where they are looking. Check out Mark Williams no look shots.
  
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11-02-2019, 12:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregcantrall View Post
I consider Barry Stark an excellent instructor and coach. He has a whole series of videos on YouTube that I find very helpful. However he considers cue ball last a flaw. He states as much in this video on flaws. https://youtu.be/gSDo2dJiGoo
He gets to cue ball last at around 5:45. I donít find his explanation of why object ball last is better to be very compelling. He has obviously been involved debating this subject. He emphasizes that you need to have your stroke so grooved and have confidence you will strike the cue ball as intended without having to look at. I get that and agree that a student of Barry will get to that in short order. His justification of object ball last seems to boil down to; Because it is the right thing to do.

While striking the object ball correctly is the objective, striking the cue ball precisely is necessary to accomplish that. Barry teaches how to accomplish that. I find it easier to accomplish when I focus my attention on where and how I strike the cue ball.

Establishing a stable shooting platform and grooving the mechanics will allow a player to hit where they are aiming regardless of where they are looking. Check out Mark Williams no look shots.
Just curious, why is this so important to you? If you like CBL by all means go for it. This is almost like being in that asylum called the Aiming Forum. Last thing, i asked Buddy about looking at CB last and he looked at me like i was from Pluto. He said he used it sometimes if CB was really close to rail, other than that its OB last. Good enough for me. Been doin it that way for 30+ yrs.
  
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11-02-2019, 01:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregcantrall View Post
I consider Barry Stark an excellent instructor and coach. He has a whole series of videos on YouTube that I find very helpful. However he considers cue ball last a flaw. He states as much in this video on flaws. https://youtu.be/gSDo2dJiGoo
He gets to cue ball last at around 5:45. I donít find his explanation of why object ball last is better to be very compelling. He has obviously been involved debating this subject. He emphasizes that you need to have your stroke so grooved and have confidence you will strike the cue ball as intended without having to look at. I get that and agree that a student of Barry will get to that in short order. His justification of object ball last seems to boil down to; Because it is the right thing to do.

While striking the object ball correctly is the objective, striking the cue ball precisely is necessary to accomplish that. Barry teaches how to accomplish that. I find it easier to accomplish when I focus my attention on where and how I strike the cue ball.

Establishing a stable shooting platform and grooving the mechanics will allow a player to hit where they are aiming regardless of where they are looking. Check out Mark Williams no look shots.
In the video Barry compares pool to darts. WHAT???????
Now what comparison is there to darts and pool?

Somebody also told me CB last is like looking at the basketball last when you shoot a free throw. WHAT??????

You cant compare those things to pool/billiards. Its an entirely different animal. People make comparisons all the time and you simply cant do it. It is totally unique in and of itself.

Perhaps the only thing you can compare to pool/billiards is putting in golf. And there what do you look at last? The golf ball or the hole? The golf ball, of course.

r/DCP


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11-02-2019, 01:57 PM

I learned to concentrate on the cue ball and once Iíve made my decision on where Iím going to strike it with my cue tip I look up at the object ball and in the matter of a second or two I shoot. Of course Iíve studied the object ball before I get down behind the cue ball but once Iím down Iím not obsessed with the object ball. I am obsessed with the cue ball.


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11-02-2019, 06:13 PM

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Originally Posted by Scott Lee View Post
Actually, Boxcar, the outcome has already been decided before you pull the cuestick back, the last time, along with the proper PEP and other SPF variables. If not, chances of success are greatly reduced. If you haven't made your mind up, once your bridge hand hits the cloth, within 8-12 seconds, stand back up and decide what you're going to do, before you stand back down on the shotline.

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
Scott,

Thank you for your response to my statement. I have no reason to disagree with what you said. We're talking about two different things.

Best regards,

Boxcar
  
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