Back Hand English

If parallel english works, why change?
SPF=randyg

RandyG, I would be very interested in your answer to this.

Joe Tucker teaches the use of front and back hand shift to reduce the amount of cue ball deflection when English is needed. His idea seems to make sense for reducing cue ball deflection when English is used.

I think the contrasting ideas imply that parallel shifting is used to produce English with more deflection that a non parallel shift where the rear of the cue stick is closer to the center of the cue ball.

So it would appear that Joe’s method could be quite useful if one takes the time to learn to use a non – parallel shift. Would you agree or disagree and why?

well I'm not randy Joe but IMOP (I actually had a conversation with Steve the other day)

Use what you like to use.....if you like "paraleling" or BHE or FHE then use it.

There are some shots that can be easier found to hit using diff aiming methods, like BHE.

I don't use BHE but it is a club in my bag if I wish to use it put it that way.

so to me....YES joe it is quite useful just have to learn to use it or any other methods.

Its like jumping normally and not learning to use the dart stroke......they both are extremely effective. But both have their strengths and weaknesses. Its just to know which one to pick for which shot.

I had a very tough 90º+ cut shot this weekend that I chose to use BHE to try and make......I didn't make the cut but i guarantee you I hit it better than I would have using my typical method.

-Grey Ghost-

Thanks for the comment. I was primarily responding with a query to Randy's post but all info is appreciated.

After learning about JoeT's idea I tend to use it quite often as it seems to work well for me. However, I am ambivelent about it as I try to develop that "pure" stroke.

greyghost said:

well I'm not randy Joe but IMOP (I actually had a conversation with Steve the other day)

Use what you like to use.....if you like "paraleling" or BHE or FHE then use it.

There are some shots that can be easier found to hit using diff aiming methods, like BHE.

I don't use BHE but it is a club in my bag if I wish to use it put it that way.

so to me....YES joe it is quite useful just have to learn to use it or any other methods.

Its like jumping normally and not learning to use the dart stroke......they both are extremely effective. But both have their strengths and weaknesses. Its just to know which one to pick for which shot.

I had a very tough 90º+ cut shot this weekend that I chose to use BHE to try and make......I didn't make the cut but i guarantee you I hit it better than I would have using my typical method.

-Grey Ghost-

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This is true..:smile:

JoeW said:

RandyG, I would be very interested in your answer to this.

Joe Tucker teaches the use of front and back hand shift to reduce the amount of cue ball deflection when English is needed. His idea seems to make sense for reducing cue ball deflection when English is used.

I think the contrasting ideas imply that parallel shifting is used to produce English with more deflection that a non parallel shift where the rear of the cue stick is closer to the center of the cue ball.

So it would appear that Joe’s method could be quite useful if one takes the time to learn to use a non – parallel shift. Would you agree or disagree and why?

Click to expand...

Hi Joe. It's referred to as, cue ball SQUIRT.

First off, I use both forms. I grew up with front hand English and as an inquiring mind, taught myself back hand English.

For my personal stroke, back hand English needs very little if any aim adjustment. I use it when I'm drawing the cue ball. Old habits die hard and therefore when I'm following the cue ball, front hand English is the easiest.

Sounds like I agree.....SPF=randyg

mr5994 said:

That's the thing.....How do I know that parallel english works for me? And how would I know if Back Hand English would work better?

Occasionally I will miss a shot after applying english, but I can't always attribute the miss to the application of english.

I am wondering if the general consensus is that BHE is superior to parallel english, and if it is worth the effort to learn it and incorporate it into my game.

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yes it is worth it....but neither are better than the other. both have their faults and fortes.

-Grey Ghost

Not an instructor here...

Why isn't anyone saying there is no such thing as "parallel english" to the original poster?

Hasn't it been proven for a while on these forums that it does not exist? It physically does not work. You may "think" your cue is being shifted parallel, but at the moment of contact through the cue ball it will actually be angled and look exactly like BHE if you were to have an overhead camera of the shot and froze the frame at cueball contact. This is true if you use BHE, FHE, combination of both, "swipe" the cue while it is in motion, line up with stick already angled while in your stance, etc. All these methods lead you to the same exact stick angle at the moment of contact with the cueball.

I used to think that I used "parallel" english, until I started reading what BHE was on here. Then, I realized that when I spun the ball, my stick was in fact at an angle. Just freeze on your follow through, and see if your stick is straight to the line of the shot, or is angled.

I personally approach the shot with my stick already angled, and the tip at the right amount of english, but there are many ways to get to the same result.

I apologize if I'm wrong, but I thought this was already hashed out a few years ago.

randyg said:

Hi Joe. It's referred to as, cue ball SQUIRT.

First off, I use both forms. I grew up with front hand English and as an inquiring mind, taught myself back hand English.

For my personal stroke, back hand English needs very little if any aim adjustment. I use it when I'm drawing the cue ball. Old habits die hard and therefore when I'm following the cue ball, front hand English is the easiest.

Sounds like I agree.....SPF=randyg

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Thank you.

Bob Jewett said:

I think BHE is a useful tool to demonstrate the need for squirt compensation and roughly the amount of compensation needed to beginners.

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Are you saying BHE is best used by beginners or only "good" for beginners (i.e. too basic for advanced players)?

Bob Jewett said:

There are some good players who imagine they are using BHE without compensation. Of course they are compensating for lots of things or they wouldn't make a ball. As long as they can stay in that subconscious groove, they'll be OK, but they better not think about their shots.

Click to expand...

I think you just described every good player who uses any english technique.

It all comes down to what you're most accurate with while being subconscious. I was never successful with fronthand english or "parallel" or any weird combination thereof. I am, however, successful with pivoting balls in using BHE. Am I adjusting? Definitely not consciously -- and that's why I use it. Many Asian players also pivot their backhand - who are prob also compensating subconsciously...and play dream-like.

It's hard to imagine a pool player who would look at a shot and think, "Hmmm.. for this shot and this length I'm going to have X amount of squirt so I'm going to aim here... and the swerve will be Y... so I'll adjust back to here....."

My point is I wouldn't classify BHE as a beginner technique at all. All english methods require some degree of compensation -- some less than others, however.