Designing new light, projector mount, and camera for table

Oh, one thing I was reading about the SLR's used in movie mode, is they don't autofocus. Whatever focus you set them at they hold. So this can make it more difficult to use for recording video in traditional circumstances.

However, in our circumstance here, the locked focus will actually be a benefit. If you ever see a stream and the picture zooms in and out a hair when the player walks in front of the camera, its due to the auto-focus. My current Panasonic camcorder has a manual focus mode, and it really is much better for this application than autofocus. Same for white balance. If you get a camera, look for one that has a manual white balance. If its auto white balance only, every time the player blocks the light of the table from hitting the camera, you will see the screen change dramatically and have a huge hot spot on the table, then none. Again, you want manual focus and manual white balance if you have a camera mounted on your ceiling dedicated to pool.

Below is a time lapse video of the overhead projector installation. 2min 50 sec for easy viewing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XauTiQO6oWs&feature=youtu.be

app4dstn said:

Man you never fail to impress.

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Thank you.

I Got Lucky said:

Very nice. That computer training aid looks like the cats meow!!! Congrats.

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Thank you.

frankncali said:

What lights did you get and where from?

Setup looking great

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I got them from eBay about 5 years ago. The listing is now gone. They were about $150 to $200 shipped for the pair, I don't remember exactly. They are 6000 K color temp. I don't remember the wattage, I can check in Jan when I'm back home. They are edge lit.

I'm fairly certain all the LED panels are about the same, all over eBay and Amazon. Here are two listings of pairs:

6500 K https://www.amazon.com/Luxrite-Brig...pY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

5000 K https://www.amazon.com/Daylight-Cei...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Slightly cheaper still will be on eBay. Just do a search for LED 2x4 and you will see dozens of choices.

Cardigan Kid said:

What did you discover or find that worked better than what was listed or recommended with the video training unit installation recommendations?

Do they have an optimal distance, height, or table placement that gave you a starting point?
Also, how does it look with both the LED panels on?

Thanks again. The time lapse stuff is greatly appreciated

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There are two competing companies that sell a similar product. I decided to go with the Projection Pro Billiards brand, as they were the original, and significantly cheaper. That said, I read through both websites for any installation and projector advice. Both had the optimal projector location at the end rail end of the table, about 6-8' high, and about 6' away. The both also recommended a sideways mount, where the projector points to the long rail of the table. (but is still far away and high up, at that skewed angle).

Projector Pro Billiards said where I ended up putting it would be best for picture quality, but the pool table light would be in the way.


Here is the text from the second company, ICATraining:
Q: Can't a projector be mounted directly above the table?
It would be desirable to put a projector directly above the table. However, most projectors can't mount vertically due to thermal reasons, and laser projectors that can mount vertically cost >$1000. And then of course there is a pool pool table light that would compete for space and interfere with the projector...

Just my opinion, but I don't believe either company tried it overhead, or they would have seen that the light is not in the way, because the projector goes outbound of the table as I have demonstrated.

The second company also has a warning about projector failure in that orientation. I had not seen this until after I actually installed it. I did a google search, and there is some debate about it. I personally don't believe it will make any difference. The fan works in any orientation, and its force in moving the air is much higher than the force of air movement from natural convection. Plus, the picture quality is so much better, that I'm willing to take a chance that the projector may die earlier. Its at least twice as good a picture, maybe more.

This video from earlier in the thread is with both LED panels in place. The projector lines show up very nicely, both in the video and in person:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gh8d9DMbFg&feature=youtu.be

Oh, there is one more advantage I remembered with the projector where I put it, vs the end rail mounting position that is skewed:

The mouse movement is significantly better. What the system is is actually a linux computer, that uses the pool table as the monitor. When you have the projector in the "skewed" position, its light intersects the table at a weird angle, and the resulting light shape is like a triangle or trapezoid. The linux operating system doesn't know this, and thinks its still a normal rectangular shaped monitor. So when you go to move the mouse, it does not move naturally. You get used to it, but its not great.

In contrast, when you have the projector where I put it, the mouse moves much better. The image is rectangular, like a regular computer monitor.

This doesn't affect the picture of the projected image when you are inside the pool table program. Because the image is calibrated to the table diamonds. But, the mouse movement is still not great, as the calibration does not seem to affect the mouse movement. If you quit the pool table program, and return to the linux desktop, then you see the full desktop. But in the "Skewed" position, maybe 1/2 of the desktop will be on the pool table, and the other half will be on the floor. With the projector where I put it, about 90% of the linux desktop is on the pool table, and just a little lands on the floor.

Again, this doesn't affect the pool program. But if you want to exit, for example to browse the internet on the pool table, the skewed position will drive you nuts, while the overhead position works ok.

fastone371 said:

Maybe you cannot answer this but I will give it a shot all the same. I have the Brunswick commercial light over my GCI, the same light that pool halls typically have over their Gold Crowns. I mounted the light 36"-38" inches above the playing surface of the table (I think I got the desired mounting dimensions from the WPA handbook ) Do you still think that the projector mounted above the long rail would still work or do you think the light may interfere requiring the light to be raised?? Since the table is in my basement I have 9'-10' tall ceilings down there.

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I think you may have to raise the light slightly. But you definitely don't have to put it as high as the ceiling if you don't want to. I will get measuremets later. I'm very familiar with that light, the GC light.

pab said:

I have a pretty specific question as well. You mentioned the projector (I have a short throw) be centered on the side pocket and 1 foot out from the long rail. I'm guessing the lens is centered. Do you also have the center of the lens 12" out from the outside edge of the rail - or does I just need to get it close and then adjust the position and angle of the mount so the image covers the table?

I've ordered a Littman light and it hasn't arrived yet. Not sure if it will hang at the same height as a Diamond (with the bottom of the unit 78" from the ground) or if it will hang differently. That might impact the positioning of the projector as I have 9' ceilings too.

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I'll get you better measurements also. It might have to wait until Jan, I think I wrote them in my notebook that I left in Atlanta. I had the vertical lens distance to slate distance, and horizontal lens distance to long rail distance measured out for you all.

I will say based on my experience with the LED's, both single and double panels, they are bright enough that even when flush with the ceiling, they do a great job lighting the table.

It turns out I brought my notebook with me. Here are the measurements:

For a GC 9' table:

Horizontal distance: Center line of the table (Long ways) to centerline of the lens is 37"
Vertical distance: Slate to glass of lens is 53.5" (I have to double check this, it might be plus/minus 2").
Long rail distance: Centerline of lens is even with centerline of the side pockets.


You can still put the projector higher than these numbers, but it will make the light it throws out overlap the table about a foot in each direction. That will work fine, except you will be throwing less actual light on the table (some will be on the floor). The practical result of this is the picture won't be as bright.

For Fastone, we couch probably figure out with these 53.5 height numbers compared to your 38" high light number if the light needs to move up by drawing a few triangles on a piece of paper.

To Fastone: a picture like this will help figure it out. The "triangle" of light, as long as it doesn't hit the bottom edge of the GC light, you should be fine.

Back to the Camera:



I found someone on Craigslist in Philly that had the exact camera and lens I was after. I met him today, and bought it. $400 for the camera, 10-18mm zoom lens, 24mm prime lens, filter, 2 chargers, 3 batteries. The 10-18mm zoom lens is the one I need for pool. The camera is a Canon T3i.




Here is the camera lens 47" high from the floor. This seems to be the minimum height to get the whole slate. The 4 napkins at the corners are 50" x 100" apart, at their outer corners. I don't have a camera card (or even a card reader for that matter) so I took a picture of the camera's screen with my iPhone. You can see the full 9' slate surface would be in the picture. Unknown how much distortion will be in the picture until I get over the actual pool table. But this quick test looks promising.




Here is the view from 72" high from the floor. This is the highest I will be able to put it over my actual table. This looks very promising. I can have the camera there, and then zoom in if I want to get a closer picture, or stay further out to show more of the shooter, and not only the playing surface.

Ghosst said:

Sorry if I missed it earlier, but is that a Raspberry Pi 2 or 3? If you're not sure, can you take a quick picture of the end of the box where the USB ports are?

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I don't know, and I won't be near it again until after the holidays. They probably have the information on their website, its www.projectionprobilliards.com

The raspberry is what gets delivered, pre-loaded with the software. It auto-starts in the pool program, so you never have to touch the OS if you don't want to. They don't sell the software separately to the best of my knowledge.

To Fastone, I went out to my home room, Drexeline Billiards in Philly last night and took this picture for you. Its the GC light over GC4 tables. I measured the height using my cue stick, and the light's grate is about 50"-52" above the slate. FYI I can't imagine it any lower, do you hit your head on yours?