You can foul on a push by pushing

gordml · Dec 14, 2018

Yes you can foul on a push by pushing
https://youtu.be/CPGXl8QAUSI?t=4669
Never seen that before.
Never even heard of anyone calling it.
Occurred at a World championships match.

HawaiianEye · Dec 14, 2018

You have to "shoot the cue ball on a push". You can't just put the tip of your cue on the cue ball and "push it".

Looks like there must be some camel flies in there. Niels keeps fanning something out of his face and away from the table.

GideonF · Dec 14, 2018

I watched that match. Tough draw for first round - Niels vs YL Chang.

AtLarge · Dec 14, 2018

gordml said:
Yes you can foul on a push by pushing ...

... and lots of other ways.

On a push out, "rules 6.2 Wrong Ball First and 6.3 No Rail after Contact are suspended," but all the other foul rules still apply.

[WPA rules]

BasementDweller · Dec 14, 2018

Great call. Definitely double hit the ball.

Luxury · Dec 14, 2018

iPhones Start at the beginning of the video can someone tell me at what point it happens please?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bob Jewett · Dec 14, 2018

BasementDweller said:
Great call. Definitely double hit the ball.

Yes, the ref gets bonus points for this. I think lots of refs would fail to get that one right especially when a champion is doing it.

Bob Jewett · Dec 14, 2018

Luxury said:
iPhones Start at the beginning of the video can someone tell me at what point it happens please?...

The time is encoded in seconds in the link. You should be able to see t=4669 in there which is 4669-3600 =1068 for 1 hour
1068-60*17 =48 for 17 minutes with 48 seconds left over or 1:17:48

Bob Jewett · Dec 14, 2018

And for what it's worth, you can't push out with your ferrule, either.

spartan · Dec 14, 2018

I am a noob. So in noob terms, that means any foul on cue ball or scratch is foul . Any other types of foul are not fouls ?

Bob Jewett · Dec 14, 2018

spartan said:
I am a noob. So in noob terms, that means any foul on cue ball or scratch is foul . Any other types of foul are not fouls ?

On a push out, only the two rules listed above are suspended. It is still possible to foul in about a dozen other ways. Here are the official rules. Check out section 6 which lists (or attempts to list) all possible fouls: https://wpapool.com/rules-of-play/#Fouls

BassMasterK · Dec 14, 2018

This guy must have done it before in the match. Look at Niels signal the ref right before the shot to look at it, while Niels was seated. I would never even think to do that on a push unless it happened before a few times and wasn't called.

Bob Jewett · Dec 14, 2018

BassMasterK said:
This guy must have done it before in the match. Look at Niels signal the ref right before the shot to look at it, while Niels was seated. I would never even think to do that on a push unless it happened before a few times and wasn't called.

Not necessarily. The way he was lining up for a fullish hit with the balls close together cries out that it is likely to be a foul.

Bob Jewett · Dec 14, 2018

Here is a screen shot from YouTube just before the problematic shot. You can see Niels has raised his hand to signal a problem but the ref was already moving into position to watch for the double hit.

jay helfert · Dec 14, 2018

You guys have better eyes than me! I can't see much watching the video.

gordml · Dec 15, 2018

jay helfert said:
You guys have better eyes than me! I can't see much watching the video.

You can change the resolution on the video.
Click on the settings icon- (the round bumpy wheel).
Then click on quality.
then select 720p.

Not sure why 720p is not the default mode

Cornerman · Dec 15, 2018

gordml said:
Yes you can foul on a push by pushing
https://youtu.be/CPGXl8QAUSI?t=4669
Never seen that before.
Never even heard of anyone calling it.
Occurred at a World championships match.

Good. And then maybe 90% of thr players who misuse the term “push shot” will understand.

Oh wait... it’s not a push ... it’s a double hit.

Freddie <~~~ or not

Bob Jewett · Dec 15, 2018

Cornerman said:
... Oh wait... it’s not a push ... it’s a double hit.
...

For those who are confused by Freddie's comment....

A push shot is played with a special kind of stroke that most players have never noticed and would probably be unable to execute. The rule is:

6.8 Push Shot
It is a foul to prolong tip-to-cue-ball contact beyond that seen in normal shots.

The place you are most likely to see a push shot is on a trick shot.

To play a push shot, bring your cue tip right up to the cue ball but don't touch it. Now, without any backstroke at all, accelerate your tip forward, sort of like a sweeping motion.

Chang has a short backstroke and then he follows through slowly to herd the balls together down the rail. He hit the cue ball at least twice. Maybe it was a triple hit, but it was not a push shot.

oldschool1478 · Dec 15, 2018

I assume pushing-out with no object ball contacted is excused under one of those?

Bob Jewett · Dec 15, 2018

oldschool1478 said:
I assume pushing-out with no object ball contacted is excused under one of those?

Here are the two foul rules that are suspended during a push out:

6.2 Wrong Ball First
In those games which require the first object ball struck to be a particular ball or one of a group of balls, it is a foul for the cue ball to first contact any other ball.

6.3 No Rail after Contact
If no ball is pocketed on a shot, the cue ball must contact an object ball, and after that contact at least one ball (cue ball or any object ball) must be driven to a rail, or the shot is a foul.

Here's a link directly to the Fouls section of the rules: https://wpapool.com/rules-of-play/#Fouls

You can foul on a push by pushing

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Shoot Pool, not people

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Cue Author...Sometimes

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