Cueball speed: the Final Frontier

bdorman · Feb 28, 2013

I've finally come to the realization that CB speed is the most important factor in successful position play. Of course, you have to aim well enough to pocket the ball, and apply the correct spin...but speed is what separates the "okay" shot from the great shot. ((Especially on safety shots: for a pocket-shot you only need to think about where the CB is going to end up (the OB is going in a pocket so it's speed is less important). But in a safety shot you have to think about the final position of the CB and the OB!))

Speed is also the most difficult skill for me. I make every run-out more difficult by under-shooting or over-shooting position.

Here's an idea I'm going to try: Using my "Break Speed" iPhone app to get some reference speeds. Maybe shoot headspot to footspot at various speeds and use the app to measure the mph. I'm just the kind of person who benefits from having a reference point; it helps me establish muscle-memory if I have a number to go along with an action.

I hope the Break Speed app will work at lower speeds and softer sound levels.

Any suggestions?

CJ Wiley · Feb 28, 2013

we could describe what this "ideal speed" was exactly.

bdorman said:
I've finally come to the realization that CB speed is the most important factor in successful position play. Of course, you have to aim well enough to pocket the ball, and apply the correct spin...but speed is what separates the "okay" shot from the great shot. ((Especially on safety shots: for a pocket-shot you only need to think about where the CB is going to end up (the OB is going in a pocket so it's speed is less important). But in a safety shot you have to think about the final position of the CB and the OB!))

Speed is also the most difficult skill for me. I make every run-out more difficult by under-shooting or over-shooting position.

Here's an idea I'm going to try: Using my "Break Speed" iPhone app to get some reference speeds. Maybe shoot headspot to footspot at various speeds and use the app to measure the mph. I'm just the kind of person who benefits from having a reference point; it helps me establish muscle-memory if I have a number to go along with an action.

I hope the Break Speed app will work at lower speeds and softer sound levels.

Any suggestions?

Cue Ball speed changes how deflection and spin effect the cue ball's path. Therefore it's best to keep it as consistent as possible. Measuring your ideal speed with this app. would be a great idea. This would also help my online teaching if we could describe what this "ideal speed" was exactly.

The key is "Cue Stick Speed," as opposed to "Cue Ball Speed" because this is where you get your feel, and it gives you a direct relationship to the game.

Feel and Touch are "the difference that makes the difference" in your position play and both are generated by the feedback to your hands.

djkx1 · Feb 28, 2013

One thing that I'm sure you know about but is worth mentioning is the path of the cueball. The more your CB travels in a line toward the object ball the more forgiveness there is regarding speed. If you are traveling across the line it is much more important that the speed is perfect.

Island Drive · Feb 28, 2013

bdorman said:
I've finally come to the realization that CB speed is the most important factor in successful position play. Of course, you have to aim well enough to pocket the ball, and apply the correct spin...but speed is what separates the "okay" shot from the great shot. ((Especially on safety shots: for a pocket-shot you only need to think about where the CB is going to end up (the OB is going in a pocket so it's speed is less important). But in a safety shot you have to think about the final position of the CB and the OB!))

Speed is also the most difficult skill for me. I make every run-out more difficult by under-shooting or over-shooting position.

Here's an idea I'm going to try: Using my "Break Speed" iPhone app to get some reference speeds. Maybe shoot headspot to footspot at various speeds and use the app to measure the mph. I'm just the kind of person who benefits from having a reference point; it helps me establish muscle-memory if I have a number to go along with an action.

I hope the Break Speed app will work at lower speeds and softer sound levels.

Any suggestions?

Play the game ONLY using center ball, cueing anything along the verticle 6 to 12 o'clock shot line. Nothin' better....KIS

Mitchxout · Feb 28, 2013

Island Drive said:
Play the game ONLY using center ball, cueing anything along the verticle 6 to 12 o'clock shot line. Nothin' better....KIS

If God didn't intend for you to use english he wouldn't have made the balls round. Anyone that truly plays this way can get the 8. Email me for a meetup. :thumbup:

Island Drive · Feb 28, 2013

Mitchxout said:
If God didn't intend for you to use english he wouldn't have made the balls round. Anyone that truly plays this way can get the 8. Email me for a meetup. :thumbup:

It was a suggestion to help get a feel for cue ball speed, nothing more. If your ever in CO let me know.

sparkle84 · Feb 28, 2013

Island Drive said:
Play the game ONLY using center ball, cueing anything along the verticle 6 to 12 o'clock shot line. Nothin' better....KIS

Why would you tell someone to aspire to mediocrity. Not learning, using & mastering all types of english will severely limit someones game.

To the OP, dkx1 made a very good point. Playing position correctly will help in that on many shots speed becomes less of a factor.

Of course speed is very important but so is direction. Coming into position zones at the right direction & angle is equally important. Learn both. Even very good players have trouble with speed at times but still get thru the rack because they know how to enter zones correctly.

Good luck with your game

Banks · Feb 28, 2013

sparkle84 said:
Why would you tell someone to aspire to mediocrity. Not learning, using & mastering all types of english will severely limit someones game.

To the OP, dkx1 made a very good point. Playing position correctly will help in that on many shots speed becomes less of a factor.

Of course speed is very important but so is direction. Coming into position zones at the right direction & angle is equally important. Learn both. Even very good players have trouble with speed at times but still get thru the rack because they know how to enter zones correctly.

Good luck with your game

I tried out the whole center ball thing for a bit and was surprised at what I was missing out on in some cases. There's a lot that can be done with center. It's no different than spending time trying other types of english.

"Not learning, using & mastering all types of english will severely limit someones game." Spending time with center ball differs from that how?

Besides, top/bottom/etc are more useful when you have a reference point.

bdorman · Feb 28, 2013

CJ Wiley said:
Cue Ball speed changes how deflection and spin effect the cue ball's path. Therefore it's best to keep it as consistent as possible.
The key is "Cue Stick Speed," as opposed to "Cue Ball Speed" because this is where you get your feel, and it gives you a direct relationship to the game.

Interesting points that I'll definitely keep in mind. Thanks!

Island Drive said:
It was a suggestion to help get a feel for cue ball speed, nothing more. If your ever in CO let me know.

That's the plan: Establish my first reference points with center CB, the follow, then draw...then english. I hope that by combining CJ's ideas of "feel" with use of the break app will enable me to find out "how does lower-right english effect my CB speed?" But first I need center speed as a reference point.

sparkle84 said:
To the OP, dkx1 made a very good point. Playing position correctly will help in that on many shots speed becomes less of a factor.

Of course speed is very important but so is direction. Coming into position zones at the right direction & angle is equally important. Learn both. Even very good players have trouble with speed at times but still get thru the rack because they know how to enter zones correctly.

This is an area I really need to pay more attention to. I know the theory, I just don't seem to look for it while I'm at the table. Thanks for the reminder.

SmoothStroke · Feb 28, 2013

100 %

sparkle84 said:
Why would you tell someone to aspire to mediocrity. Not learning, using & mastering all types of english will severely limit someones game.

To the OP, dkx1 made a very good point. Playing position correctly will help in that on many shots speed becomes less of a factor.

Of course speed is very important but so is direction. Coming into position zones at the right direction & angle is equally important. Learn both. Even very good players have trouble with speed at times but still get thru the rack because they know how to enter zones correctly.

Good luck with your game

100 % Agree with the above
I use triangle zone or pyramid zone position system. It's so simple a monkey can do it. As long as you land within the perimeter of the zone you are in good shape. Choose high side or long side of the zone to land on the proper side of the next object ball. Speed is important for distance but if you land properly you will always have the shot. Insurance position is also key for more options.

bbb · Feb 28, 2013

as student of the game but not a master
here is my advice (constructive critism welcome:smile

being able to have the cue ball stop exactly where you want it is alot dependent on time on the table to practice that(target pool)
being able to have the cueball to travel on the right line towards your shot so that that shot zone is increased ie the angle is reasonable but the distance is varied is a skill once acquired will come back sooner and is less related to current table time (it is related to prior table time)
what im tring to say is this
learn the skill to make the cue ball travel on the track you want it to
where it stops you can fine tune later
jmho
your comments are welcome

MitchAlsup · Feb 28, 2013

bdorman said:
I've finally come to the realization that CB speed is the most important factor in successful position play.

I disagree as the statement is written.

Howeer if you worded the statement "CB energy is the most important factor in successfule position play." We are in complete agreement.

CB energy is the <vector> sum of CB speed (expressed in energy terms: E=m*v**2) and CB spin (espressed in energy terms: I*j**2; where j is the rotation speed in radian per second). That is a CB rolling down table at 1 diamond per second with no side-spin has a computable amount of energy. IF the CB side-spin rotates the CB once laterally as the CB rotates once linearly, you have significantly more energy in the CB than before. While rolling at the same speed, it will take longer to come to a rest, and bounce off rails at different angles than the CB without spin.

Maniac · Feb 28, 2013

MitchAlsup said:
CB energy is the <vector> sum of CB speed (expressed in energy terms: E=m*v**2) and CB spin (espressed in energy terms: I*j**2; where j is the rotation speed in radian per second).

Didn't the Scarecrow from the movie "The Wizard of Oz" say something like that when he got his brain??? :grin::grin::grin:

Maniac

Masayoshi · Feb 28, 2013

There are many factors that contribute to cue ball speed. Stroke speed, cut angle, spin, elevation, etc. Very good players tend to have a small number of stroke speeds (2 or 3) and vary the spin and elevation to get the correct path and speed of the cue ball. This kind of play really helps under pressure because there is no guessing or hesitation in how you stroke and what speed to stroke it at. Of course, every once in a while you will come across a shot that requires a stroke speed slower or faster than than your ideal speed(s), but that is the exception, not the rule.

Island Drive · Mar 1, 2013

bdorman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Drive
It was a suggestion to help get a feel for cue ball speed, nothing more.

That's the plan: Establish my first reference points with center CB, the follow, then draw...then english. I hope that by combining CJ's ideas of "feel" with use of the break app will enable me to find out "how does lower-right english effect my CB speed?" But first I need center speed as a reference point.

Needing to get the feel of ''center speed as a reference point''....:thumbup:

You got it !!

3andstop · Mar 1, 2013

If you're serious about refining cue ball speed, there are two games that will seriously improve that part of your game. Number 1, play straight pool. To play it well, an inch or less many times is the determining factor in getting through racks.

Number 2, play One Pocket. If you let the CB get away once in this game, the penalty may be curtains.

Those are two good reasons why there are 15 object balls delivered in the box from the mfg. Don't understand why all the kids put 5 or 6 of them under that table and become satisfied to play those carnival rotation games. It's a shame.

3kushn · Mar 1, 2013

Come On Bill, What do you know about CB control and feel?
We should leave these questions for good players to answer.

RRfireblade · Mar 1, 2013

Your on the right track focusing on CB speed as a factor of control.

I dont think a break speed app is going to tell you anything tho.

There are just too many other variables that impact where the CB stops. Your individual style of play and preference is going to tell which group of those has the greatest affect on CB position. Its going to take a certain level of mastery of each of those and an understanding of thier individual effects on ball speed. .

Tramp Steamer · Mar 1, 2013

When considering cue ball speed don't think in terms of velocity, but rather in how the cue contacts the cue ball. Think soft, softer, softest.
One of the guys I play One Pocket with is forever hitting the cue ball hard and, as a consequence, is forever getting out of position.

bdorman · Mar 1, 2013

3andstop said:
If you're serious about refining cue ball speed, there are two games that will seriously improve that part of your game. Number 1, play straight pool. To play it well, an inch or less many times is the determining factor in getting through racks.

Number 2, play One Pocket. If you let the CB get away once in this game, the penalty may be curtains.

I do play some 1P and 14.1. But I need repetition in order to build muscle-memory. Same shot, over and over again to get the feel of the shot speed. Too many things going on during a game to establish muscle-memory.

RRfireblade said:
Your on the right track focusing on CB speed as a factor of control.

I dont think a break speed app is going to tell you anything tho.

There are just too many other variables that impact where the CB stops. Your individual style of play and preference is going to tell which group of those has the greatest affect on CB position. Its going to take a certain level of mastery of each of those and an understanding of thier individual effects on ball speed. .

I anticipate you're correct about the BreakSpeed app, but it's not crucial to success. Like CJ said, it's more about getting the "feel" than the number.

Cueball speed: the Final Frontier

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