Did Simonis Cloth Change The Game In The 1980s?

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DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Perhaps its just me. Or maybe the quality of the videos. Or perhaps its the table itself. Or perhaps the cloth. But when I have seen videos from back around the 1980s it appears to me that tables play much slower than they do nowadays.

And I thought I read where it was back around the middle 1980s that Simonis Cloth began to become the #1 choice of cloth for pool tables. And that made the tables play faster. And that changed the game.

Thoughts anyone? Or am I way out in leftfield here?

r/DCP
 
sjm

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Yes, Simonis cloth changed the game very dramatically. The old nappy cloth required a much bigger stroke than today's cloth. To draw five feet on a five foot shot took a very hard hit of the cue ball. Stun shots off fairly straight angles had to be hit very firmly.

In the world of women's pool, in the pre-Simonis days, only Jean Balukas possessed a powerful enough stroke to pull off every positional shot required, part of why she was almost unbeatable.

Mike Sigel, who had a huge stroke, made the comment that [when they switched to Simonis cloth, all of a sudden, a lot of guys played like me]. It was his way of saying that, suddenly, every pro had a good enough stroke to pull off even the position shots that traditionally required a bigger stroke.

The use of Simonis meant you could hit the balls softer in making the position play needed, which made pocketing easier, which began the trend toward tighter pockets.

Simonis cloth changed the world of pool.
 
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Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bit it wasn't the only change of measure.
Tejas espresso
Kicking with a purpose
Breaking as a shot
All played major roles in the improvement of the game overall.
 
M

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We were putting Simonis on the table in the Frat House in the early 1970s on a pool table originally made in 1913.

I do not remember the Simonis number, but I do remember the pool house table master (Doodle) made a hissy fit about a suggestion to use some cheaper cloth. And after we put on the new cloth, those of us who were attempting to be any good, understood.

The next year we redid the wooden frames under the slates (mostly so they would hold the brads--can you imagine how worn out the wood was having new cloth every year for more than 50 years?
 
Dead Money

Dead Money

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
MitchAlsup said:
We were putting Simonis on the table in the Frat House in the early 1970s on a pool table originally made in 1913.

I do not remember the Simonis number, but I do remember the pool house table master (Doodle) made a hissy fit about a suggestion to use some cheaper cloth. And after we put on the new cloth, those of us who were attempting to be any good, understood.

The next year we redid the wooden frames under the slates (mostly so they would hold the brads--can you imagine how worn out the wood was having new cloth every year for more than 50 years?
Click to expand...

Mitch are you the "older Mitch" that used to play in the Sunday Night Slick Willies South Lamar 9-ball tournaments?
 
C

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Keep in mind the pro players at their tour events have the luxury of always playing on brand new Simonis - always less than a week’s time since installation even by the time the finals rolls around. Even I can draw a cue ball the length of the table on newly installed Simonis!
 
pt109

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
I hear a lot of malarkey about slow cloth...even from Sigel...there was a lot of slow cloth
around because it was CHEAP...even in tournaments because of sponsorship.
But there was a lot of good cloth around also.
Y’all must’ve heard of the Rack in Detroit...Gil Elias, a 3-cushion player, kept Granito cloth
on all his tables during the action years...it was faster than Simonis 760.
I played 9-ball at Bakers in Tampa..late 60s...fast as the Rack.
I must’ve played in a hundred rooms, coast to coast, that didn’t use cheap cloth.

Do you think those old grand touring rooms used the same cheap rags as bar-rooms?

When the 8-ball on a barbox craze hit, a lot of players got used to the rags...
...but it held the game down...not going for that nostalgic bs..it was used because it was cheap.
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
sjm said:
Yes, Simonis cloth changed the game very dramatically. The old nappy cloth required a much bigger stroke than today's cloth. To draw five feet on a five foot shot took a very hard hit of the cue ball. Stun shots off fairly straight angles had to be hit very firmly.

In the world of women's pool, in the pre-Simonis days, only Jean Balukas possessed a powerful enough stroke to pull off every positional shot required, part of why she was almost unbeatable.

Mike Sigel, who had a huge stroke, made the comment that [when they switched to Simonis cloth, all of a sudden, a lot of guys played like me]. It was his way of saying that, suddenly, every pro had a good enough stroke to pull off even the position shots that traditionally required a bigger stroke.

The use of Simonis meant you could hit the balls softer in making the position play needed, which made pocketing easier, which began the trend toward tighter pockets.

Simonis cloth change the world of pool.
Click to expand...

Stu pretty much nailed it here. It was a different game playing on the old Steven cloth, which by the way was not 'cheap' cloth. I forget the wool/cotton blend but it was made specifically for pool tables.
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does anyone know what the older Simonis was like? After all, they are over 333 years in business making cloth. Was an older version of Simonis ever on USA tables? Or was it only in Europe?
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
iusedtoberich said:
Does anyone know what the older Simonis was like? After all, they are over 333 years in business making cloth. Was an older version of Simonis ever on USA tables? Or was it only in Europe?
Click to expand...

Simonis and Granito was being used on most Three Cushion tables back fifty+ years ago in this country as well. .
 
Biloxi Boy

Biloxi Boy

Man With A Golden Arm
In the early '70's the neighborhood poolhall recovered two tables with "unbacked felt". We were never told the brand. It was very fast, and you could draw the cue ball "a mile". When we were allowed to play on these tables, the tray of balls was always accompanied by a warning, "you little @$*&#! tear that cloth up and there ain't gonna be no more". We took good care of the tables, but the cloth wore out too quickly, and then it was back to the same old mud cloth. Simonis, and I imagine other quality felt, too, is a blessing from heaven, You young cats have no idea how good you have it in so many, many ways.
 
atlas333

atlas333

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
sjm said:
Yes, Simonis cloth changed the game very dramatically. The old nappy cloth required a much bigger stroke than today's cloth. To draw five feet on a five foot shot took a very hard hit of the cue ball. Stun shots off fairly straight angles had to be hit very firmly.

In the world of women's pool, in the pre-Simonis days, only Jean Balukas possessed a powerful enough stroke to pull off every positional shot required, part of why she was almost unbeatable.

Mike Sigel, who had a huge stroke, made the comment that [when they switched to Simonis cloth, all of a sudden, a lot of guys played like me]. It was his way of saying that, suddenly, every pro had a good enough stroke to pull off even the position shots that traditionally required a bigger stroke.

The use of Simonis meant you could hit the balls softer in making the position play needed, which made pocketing easier, which began the trend toward tighter pockets.

Simonis cloth change the world of pool.
Click to expand...

Thanks for such an intelligent and useful summation.
 
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