new hightower tailstock

Chris, I use alot of Taig products. Can you tell me if the tail stock is better for just turning wood? I can see a huge advantage to drilling. I do have one of your deluxe machines but I don't use it for drilling operations as I have a grizzly 14x40 for that. I have found that with the original tail stock for turning will hold a tollerence of less than .001" assuming that the live center is good. Would the new tailstock be easier to adjust side to side with say setscrews? This is the area for turning that I would give up the extra cash.

thanks, and keep up the good work despite others, Jim.

CamposCues said:

I understand the need to keep a secret for fear of being knocked off. The thing is, I need some info on why I should buy this. Like, why is it better than the old tailstock? Do I need different live centers if I buy it? I'd be willing to spend the dough if it is going to make my life better but with all the secrecy I have no idea what the hell it does.

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It is more rigid for drilling holes and can use #2 MT tooling. You can use your existing live center in the chuck.

Mc2 said:

Chris, I use alot of Taig products. Can you tell me if the tail stock is better for just turning wood? I can see a huge advantage to drilling. I do have one of your deluxe machines but I don't use it for drilling operations as I have a grizzly 14x40 for that. I have found that with the original tail stock for turning will hold a tollerence of less than .001" assuming that the live center is good. Would the new tailstock be easier to adjust side to side with say setscrews? This is the area for turning that I would give up the extra cash.

thanks, and keep up the good work despite others, Jim.

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The advantages are purely for drilling as I see them. For turning I don;t think it will be better. It is not meant to be a easy offsetting tailstock like the lever action one is. If you are looking for accuracy greater than .001" for turning I think a very high dollar CNC machine is what you really need.

cueman said:

The advantages are purely for drilling as I see them. For turning I don;t think it will be better. It is not meant to be a easy offsetting tailstock like the lever action one is. If you are looking for accuracy greater than .001" for turning I think a very high dollar CNC machine is what you really need.

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Thanks for this information. By the way, I am quite happy with .001" tolerance. My point was that the orig. tailstocks are still quite useful and accurate. The drilling aspect of the older tailstock is not so good but usful nun the less. I if still using the deluxe then would prefer both.

thanks, Jim.

I have the new tailstock on my deluxe. It's been on there for several months, probably close to a year. I beleive I am the first to get one. The difference between the new tailstock & the old is like night and day. I have never been happy with the original tailstock, though it did the job ok. With the new tailstock, there is no more grabbing while drilling & it won't yank out of your hand like the lever does. Drilling is far more controlled & I noticed it to be much more stable & accurate, especially towards the end of the stroke. It is not anything even similar to the other product being offered by another supplier. Most notably, it prolly weighs 8-10lbs heavier & is made of cast and machined steel, not aluminum. I can't say a lot more about it without actually posting pictures, which I promised not to do.

I reccomend the tailstock to anybody who has a deluxe. It makes your machine a better lathe, seriously. Once you have it, you'll understand. I know it's a leap of faith buying sight unseen, but I give my word it's not a gamble. It's legitimately a solid upgrade. It's the most massive, accurate, & solid tailstock assembly I have seen on any tabletop hobby style equipment, period. It's a real tailstock.

Chris, will you be attending the DCC this year? If so, will you have any of these available at that time? Thanks!

ragbug74 said:

Chris, will you be attending the DCC this year? If so, will you have any of these available at that time? Thanks!

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I will be there in booths L17 and L18. I pack about all I can in the back of my pick up and am usually packed out. So I will have one on display, but doubt I will have many for sale.

qbilder said:

I reccomend the tailstock to anybody who has a deluxe. It makes your machine a better lathe, seriously. Once you have it, you'll understand. I know it's a leap of faith buying sight unseen, but I give my word it's not a gamble. It's legitimately a solid upgrade. It's the most massive, accurate, & solid tailstock assembly I have seen on any tabletop hobby style equipment, period. It's a real tailstock.

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Have you seen the tail stock on a Porper "B" table top lathe?
Is it more massive and solid than that?

pescadoman said:

For good reason...Nothing like having your product duplicated and undersold....

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Chris has been the target of copycats in the past and I understand his fears about someone stealing his engineering work.

cueman said:

When everyone who has already bought one says you should get one, then you might should take their word for it. I have no intentions of circulating pictures until I introduce the New Deluxe next year. And I ask no one else circulate pictures either.

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chis when will new deluxe be ready. what updates @ price. ready to order deluxe

KJ Cues said:

It's a pretty sad day we've come to. But then, you all know that.

When an honorable manufacturer is hesitant to show a pic of his new product for fear it will be RIPPED-OFF, it's time to ask ourselves just how we got to this point.
Knock-offs will happen. It's a fact of life. Some people just have such a lack of imagination that the only creativity they have is how cleverly they can steal someones else's intellectual property. Or how blatantly, for that matter.
But hey, it happens and you see it everyday. I can almost understand the 'idea thieves'. That's all they know how to do.

What I can't get my head around are the people who buy the knock-off item.
They have a choice and they chose the knock-off. And for what? To save a few bucks on a copied product. See if you can get a side of integrity to go with that.
What they are doing is rewarding the thief and encouraging them to do it again.
Believe me, they will.
The sharing of ideas is great, just don't do it with pictures. Not if you had any idea of marketing your new idea anyway.
I've heard it said that we create our own Hell. What you don't hear is that when your new Hell is completed, you now have to live there. Welcome home.

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It's not what we've come to as we've been this way for eons. Every cave man never came up with the idea of a club at the same moment. They were copied. The Fore Fathers of this country thought it was needed bad enough that it was one of their first acts, forming the U.S. Patent office in 1790. This is before they even had a money system.

KJ, are you telling me that the only razer blade you will use is a Gillette? Is the only mass produced car you will drive is a Ford or the only computer an IBM? Things are copied 100's of times a day in all fields. There are ways of protecting inventions but if it is not economical then he is at the mercy of the wolves.

Chris's problems come about because most of his stuff is adapted from other, available objects. He's not large enough nor sells enough to justify castings and such which would not be easily copied. I've noticed that many of his customers on this forum may start off with his equipment but fairly quickly add a full size lathe and often a mill to their equipment inventory. They usually still use his equipment for many things but also can now make many additions instead of purchasing. With these two items there is very little as far as jigs and specialized tooling that they can't make themselves. This is the main reason everyone on this forum always are clamoring for pictures. Most ideas are simple but for some reason nobody has come up with them. When they see the product though they realize that they could have easily been doing that but just hadn't thought of it YET. Of course YET seldom comes unless they see it first.

Getting a patent and then trying to enforce it can be expensive. For small manufacturers who sell few products, a patent would be a loosing proposition of coarse.

We all know Lee is not prone to let another's good idea go to waste if it looks like a profit can be made, he is quick to fill this void. Now, he is not having his stuff cheaply made in China or Mexico. It's made in Michigan so he is not undercutting the original developers product through cheap labor. He is usually using the same materials when possible. Now a conundrum has evolved. Who does a customer choose to purchase this product from? If he can make it himself - should he? If one supplier is cheaper than the other you have to ask yourself WHY. There are 4 parameters involved I believe. Labor costs, material cost, quality of finished product and profit. If foreign labor is not evolved that eliminates part of the equation. That leaves the other 3 parameters. A customer then must make a decision through personal experience, whom he trusts most as far as quality and a few questions should make materials evident so that leaves price. You, as a customer, must decide where your Sheckles should be spent. Competition is what brings prices to a sustainable level.

I do agree with your assessment to never post pictures if you don't want the product copied quickly. Sooner or later it will get out anyway but the inventor has now done all he can, short of a patent, to protect his idea.

Dick

Good post Dick. Probably an unpopular view, but true none the less. I do not condone simply copying others work or designs, but competition usually brings about better pricing and better products for consumers. If a manufacturer doesn't want to compete on price to win customers, then they should add features or increased quality that the competition doesn't have. In the end, the better product will win, and the consumers will win too.
Mr H

I've had one of these tail stocks for quite a while now. Great addition to the lathe. Works great and is fairly easy to set up. If there is anyone that can be trusted on his word on this board, it is Chris Hightower. The man's word is gold. Put your reservations aside and buy the tail stock. You will be glad you did.

If anyones refering to my tailstock we have had it out for over 2 years its a combo of sherline tiag and our own design if anyone wants to copy mine feel free you soon find out its a little time consuming and you need good acurate machines we run a quanity at one time making it less costly i have never tryed to under sell chris and will not do so i set my price and let the cards fall where they may. I dont agree with chris's theroy of not posting pictures i think you need to i know i wouldnt buy something i couldnt see they only thing saving chris here is his great reputation but its still nice to see something your going to buy good luck chris on your new tailstock and happy new year!

not worth the trouble

rhncue said:

It's not what we've come to as we've been this way for eons. Every cave man never came up with the idea of a club at the same moment. They were copied. The Fore Fathers of this country thought it was needed bad enough that it was one of their first acts, forming the U.S. Patent office in 1790. This is before they even had a money system.
Dick

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I see what you're saying about the cavemen, clubs, etc. but I think it's safe to say that we've evolved. I'd also like to think that our social/civil & ethical consciousness has evolved as well. I'm just not ready to accept the caveman mentality that condones the stealing of another's ideas & designs for profit.

I titled my post a 'Commentary' because it's an opinion based on an observation of mine to the events and goings-on of ATC forum for the past couple of years. I was careful to not mention any names because this is about the deed, not the do-er(s).
What happens to the free-flow of information and ideas when the self-induced censorship takes hold? There's very little discussed on the forum anymore. Most of it is done via PM. I happen to like the pictures. I like to see the talents of our fellow CMs come to light, through their products, their techniques & methods, their cues, whatever. I've learned a lot from them and from you too.
But that's what this site is supposed to be about, isn't it? Maybe I'm wrong.

Pete Tonkin comes to mind as being very generous in his posting of pics. His fixtures and devices are nothing short of brilliant. I've appreciated every one of his posts. But to be honest with you, having seen the pics I could probably build something along the same lines. It may take me 10 times as long to build it but when I was done, I would have a device that would do the same thing.
Now, would I have any desire to take that idea, gear-up to produce and then offer it here for a lesser price? HELL NO!!!
That's his idea, his device and simply stated, his property. I don't need a patent number to tell me that. I don't know any of the legal ramifications and frankly I don't care to be schooled in such. All I know is that it ain't right.
I think Pete realizes that whenever he posts a pic of a new device that there are some on here that have the ability to copy it. That's part of the generosity. It doesn't take a lot of effort on my part to understand that my marketing of his property would be wrong.

So, for my final thought provoker for the year, where are we on the ladder of integrity and are we part of the reason that Pool has it's current image?

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got a Dragon at the door.
Happy New Year Everyone.

whatever Chris do , I support him because of his credit.
his lathe is my first , and the best lathe

now my hope is ... Chris can process my order as soon as possible

:grin-square:

Happy New Year

I can understand the reasoning behind Chris not wanting to post pictures of things if he has had a problem with people copying his inventions. But from the perspective of a potential customer, I find it nice to be able to see what you are buying.

Chris advertised a rear chuck assembly for some of the guys with machine lathes for a while. The price seemed right and I was in the market for that very thing so I contacted him about it. I politely asked for pictures a couple of times as I like to see what I am buying, particularly when it comes to lathe tooling. Chris declined because of the already stated reasons. Had he sent pictures and his setup was to my liking I would have ordered.

I have not bought a lathe from Chris, so perhaps I wasn't "vested". I did buy some tooling for one of his lathes I was using at a pro shop, as well as a few things for myself. I have always attempted to be a helpful forum member and straight up fellow, so I was disappointed we didn't make a transaction.

Like I said, I understand the reason, but there is a cost associated with that policy as well. Maybe I am in the minority of people who would choose not to buy a product unseen, and that cost is small.

Kelly

Perhaps Chris should consider pm pic but if he chooses not I understand. On the other hand let's look at it like this. 1)Chris is a cuemaker and knows his craft well. 2) All of his products IMO are of great quality and design so far......right? 3) I can't speak for Chris on this but I'm betting if you order his new tailstock and you just absolutely hate it he would let you return it. Lastly, He does have a great reputation here. I wouldn't hesitate to order from him unseen at all. Just my feelings about the subject.
Happy New Years az'ers!

as to kj's post on pete tonkin those jigs he makes and posts are extremly
hard to make that may be one reason he is not worried about posting pictures making them would envolve not only quality machines but advanced tool making skills he really has some nice looking jigs