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evergruven
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another deflection thread - 09-12-2019, 12:00 PM

made you look? smile

over time, I've seen a lot of threads about deflection- many about how to "deal" with/get rid of it
one recently caught my eye
makes sense- it appears to make it more difficult for us to achieve our on-table goals
making balls, getting position, etc.

but isn't deflection just a natural result of shooting pool?
of course technology can make processes simpler and more efficient
but if we can't shoot pool without deflection, why try to work around it?

I suck, but it's fun trying to figure out how to hit the balls, given deflection
you pick the spot on the cue ball, a place for it to go, and watch that sucker fly
if you miss, aauughhhh
but if it goes, and especially if it goes in nice- given the distance and spin and everything
doesn't it just feel real good?

again, I'm not playing for high stakes, just for the love
but maybe even bettors can relate
the challenge makes the journey memorable
and real, and true.
putting in the work
the thinking
the practice
over, and over
and when that effort and care bears fruit
mmmmm..eat it up!
hey, you earned it

anyway, I'm sure several of you are hip already
I just wanted to bring it up, this feeling

and maybe there is a level (unique to each of us, perhaps) of deflection that both challenges us
but also helps the balls to go right
maybe consciously or subconsciously that's what we're all looking for
it could be in a cue
and maybe it's in us, too
like a block of marble waiting to be sculpted
regardless..
I see much value in embracing the inevitability, the beautiful struggle
that is deflection


peace & love
  
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garczar
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09-13-2019, 04:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
made you look? smile

over time, I've seen a lot of threads about deflection- many about how to "deal" with/get rid of it
one recently caught my eye
makes sense- it appears to make it more difficult for us to achieve our on-table goals
making balls, getting position, etc.

but isn't deflection just a natural result of shooting pool?
of course technology can make processes simpler and more efficient
but if we can't shoot pool without deflection, why try to work around it?

I suck, but it's fun trying to figure out how to hit the balls, given deflection
you pick the spot on the cue ball, a place for it to go, and watch that sucker fly
if you miss, aauughhhh
but if it goes, and especially if it goes in nice- given the distance and spin and everything
doesn't it just feel real good?

again, I'm not playing for high stakes, just for the love
but maybe even bettors can relate
the challenge makes the journey memorable
and real, and true.
putting in the work
the thinking
the practice
over, and over
and when that effort and care bears fruit
mmmmm..eat it up!
hey, you earned it

anyway, I'm sure several of you are hip already
I just wanted to bring it up, this feeling

and maybe there is a level (unique to each of us, perhaps) of deflection that both challenges us
but also helps the balls to go right
maybe consciously or subconsciously that's what we're all looking for
it could be in a cue
and maybe it's in us, too
like a block of marble waiting to be sculpted
regardless..
I see much value in embracing the inevitability, the beautiful struggle
that is deflection
Dude, i see a NYT best-seller in your future. Call it "Reflections on Deflection". Outta sell a gillion copies.
  
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erhino41
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09-13-2019, 04:55 AM

A lot of players are looking to buy a stroke. Ain't gonna happen!

Deflection is part of the game and is easily and accurately overcome.



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14.1'er
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09-13-2019, 05:49 AM

I know so many players using LD shafts including the latest graphite ones. None of these players are any better than they were using a traditional wood shaft. All these players are trying to buy a better game, and that is never going to happen. The only way to improve is to put your time in at the table. Practice wisely, and play the better players, and you will improve, but don't think for one second that a new LD shaft will make that happen.

The manufactures know darn well that pool so so players want to become really good players, and they use that to take your money. No matter what, you still have to hit the correct spot to pocket the ball, and the correct speed to get shape. Don't be fooled by the equipment that some of the pros are using thinking that it will make your game any better.

Practice, people... Practice!
  
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garczar
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09-13-2019, 06:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14.1'er View Post
I know so many players using LD shafts including the latest graphite ones. None of these players are any better than they were using a traditional wood shaft. All these players are trying to buy a better game, and that is never going to happen. The only way to improve is to put your time in at the table. Practice wisely, and play the better players, and you will improve, but don't think for one second that a new LD shaft will make that happen.

The manufactures know darn well that pool so so players want to become really good players, and they use that to take your money. No matter what, you still have to hit the correct spot to pocket the ball, and the correct speed to get shape. Don't be fooled by the equipment that some of the pros are using thinking that it will make your game any better.

Practice, people... Practice!
Mostly agree here. LD shafts DO make pocketing balls easier when using l/r english. You don't have to compensate as much. As for the pros, i've talked to more than a few about this and the one's that use ld all say they'd never go back. Deflection is part of pool and always will be. LD shafts will never eliminate it,of course, but they do make it easier to deal with.
  
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9BallKY
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09-13-2019, 07:16 AM

Deflection does exist and has always existed. However it is mainly a marketing tool used by companies to sell a product. First is was the LD shaft and now the carbon fiber shafts. Do they actually help? Very little in my opinion if any. Is there anything wrong with this? No.

Companies have used marketing to sell products for many years. You see it in every commercial on tv. Almost everybody that plays pool owns a couple of cues so they don’t really need to buy more, so they have to convince people something is better to keep people buying things they don’t really need.

Carbon fiber shafts don’t dent so they are better than wood in that aspect. I just prefer wood. The cf shafts that I have tried I simply just don’t like them. If someone else does I’m not knocking them, everyone is different.

Cue companies aren’t the only companies using this ploy to get people to buy things they don’t need. This phone I used to type this doesn’t do anything the one I had 5 years didn’t do. Technology is great but a pair of shoes isn’t the reason an athlete is good at a certain sport.
  
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09-13-2019, 07:37 AM

Evergruven
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JazzyJeff87
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09-13-2019, 07:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by erhino41 View Post
A lot of players are looking to buy a stroke. Ain't gonna happen!

Deflection is part of the game and is easily and accurately overcome.



Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
I like the way you put that..."buy a stroke"

The first cue I bought was a viking A series with the vikore LD shaft so I haven't known anything else. I can tell a difference though when I go back to that cue after playing with a 314 for so long. It isn't quite as low deflection but it only takes a table of balls or so to get in a groove with it.

I like your pondering evergruve
  
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Patrick Johnson
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09-13-2019, 08:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9BallKY View Post
Deflection ... is mainly a marketing tool used by companies to sell a product.
Yeah, and miscues too - just another gimmick to sell those useless leather tips.

pj
chgo
  
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erhino41
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09-13-2019, 08:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Yeah, and miscues too - just another gimmick to sell those useless leather tips.

pj
chgo
The importance of reducing deflection is the marketing gimmick used. Just having less deflection in the equation does not make it easier, just different.

The idea of it being easier is a placebo effect. That's fine. You learn just as easy to make the necessary adjustments and can make them just as accurately with a "high deflection" cue. You will be accurate with what you learn to be accurate with.

The only two real benefits I see is that it is more forgiving when unintended spin is used and the shafts tend to be more consistent when you need to use a new one for some reason. I personally don't pick equipment based upon how inaccurate it will allow me to be and I've been using the same " high deflection" shaft for 20 years now.

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09-13-2019, 08:46 AM

Did the op start this thread under the wrong username, or is the Troll-LOL on AZB continuing, with his now-embracing of dick flection?
  
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09-13-2019, 09:01 AM

Find a cue you really like the hit of... settle on the tips you
play the best with... AND DON'T CHANGE. Keep playing
with the same equipment... hit a million balls... you'll know
what the cue will do and where whitey will go.

$.02
  
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carbon fiber is only three percent better
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ShootingArts
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carbon fiber is only three percent better - 09-13-2019, 09:31 AM

According to a claim by a manufacturer, carbon fiber is only three percent better than the best wood shafts when it comes to minimizing deflection. However, most people weren't playing with the best wood. Another issue, with plain wooden shafts most people don't index their cues for maximum consistency. All of this adds up to low deflection and carbon fiber shafts being here to stay. I don't think they will take over the market but I think they are going to take a chunk of it. For players who are used to other shafts low deflection shafts take some of the beauty out of the game. However, they are easier to learn with.

Years ago there was a pool game on the internet. They were going to hold tournaments, allow gambling, everything like a real pool hall. Thing was, everyone had perfect aim(sorry Geno!) and perfect stroke in the software. I was playing a youngster carefully playing shape and pocketing balls just like on a real table. Then the youngster announced last game, he wanted to go play with a buddy. I ran out the rack at warp speed. Cutting balls on the rail from end to end of the table, no problem. Reverse cuts across the table, no problem.

All the low percentage shots real world were locks on this electronic table and I used that to run the table with almost no effort to play shape on the next ball, I didn't really need it. The reason for this deflection, low deflection shafts remind me of the electronic pool game. The easy shots are just the same as with a regular shaft but all of a sudden the tough shots are much easier.

Some of the feel and beauty disappears with carbon fiber shafts but that was true with the low deflection wooden shafts too when we started playing with glue splices instead of or supplementing wood grain. The question is, how much fun are we willing to give up to play better pool? I still spend a little time practicing the slip stroke every session so I guess I know where my interests lay. However, if I was still gambling nightly or playing tournament pool I would already own a Revo.

Hu
  
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Bob Jewett
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09-13-2019, 09:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garczar View Post
Dude, i see a NYT best-seller in your future. Call it "Reflections on Deflection". Outta sell a gillion copies.
The sequel will be "Deflecting Reflections" -- about how use side spin on kick shots.

As for the marketing stuff.... Several times I hung out a little at a vendor's booth at various expos and tournaments. They were selling low-squirt shafts and had a table to demonstrate them on. The had a few different models and I think joint variations so customers could try them out. I must have watched ten or so customers in total try the shafts.

None of the customers ever used side spin. They had no idea what the shafts were about. Maybe they never used side spin in their normal play so why would they try it in a demo? Some of them bought shafts then and there.

The bottom line for me from that: The vast majority of pool players are unaware of the vast majority of the game, whether that's about the details of shots, the rules, the history, or the players. For better or worse, that's who you have to market to because that is by far the largest part of the market.

As for the low-squirt stuff.... I've used a low-squirt (AKA deflection) shaft since about 1980. I liked it because it hit the ball straighter. The cause of squirt was not widely understood until about 1998 but even before that understanding it was clear to me that less was better.


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Patrick Johnson
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09-13-2019, 10:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by erhino41 View Post
Just having less deflection in the equation does not make it easier, just different.
Of course it makes it easier - estimating a smaller adjustment to within a few millimeters is easier than estimating a larger adjustment to within a few millimeters. I don't think there's a sensible argument otherwise.

pj
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