John Schmidt's views (as of 2009) on the relative difficulty of 14.1 on 7-, 8-, and 9-footers:
When is a pool pocket too tight?
- Thread starter Straightpool_99
- Start date
Chris, watch the video of Ronnie O taming a 6'×12' table by playing everything in the foot half of the table....at 14 yrs old! The way he's playing, he's playing on a 6'×6' snooker table which is about the size of a 7' full table.
I would expect John to say that as he has great cue ball control unlike most players today, who would be out of line so often on a 7ft it's a joke. And I've played John, so i know what his cue ball control is like, experience playing somone is far better than guessing how someone plays.
Here are the results from one of our members comparing his runs on a 7-footer vs. a 9-footer. I doubt that his cue-ball control is quite as good as John Schmidt's.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=344551
Then its a great test.
But if you're saying a better player may run out more on a 10ft table than a weaker player on a 7ft table then yes that may well be true, but it doesn't change the fact that the 10ft table is harder (given the same pocket sizes, balls, cloth etc.).
However I see your point specifically about 14.1 being to crowded on a 7ft table, but it would only apply to the one game (i.e. the reverse is true for 8 and 9 ball).
I'm so sick and tired of people who can't run 3 balls to save their lives saying how the pockets on this and that table are too wide etc..Here is the test to see if you have any business talking AT ALL:
Set up a ball a diamond below the side pocket, 1/2 inch off the long rail. The cueball is set up 2.5-3 diamonds away from the object ball, on the other side of the side pocket, along the same rail, but a little bit further out giving you an almost straight in shot, just a slight cut. Obviously we are talking about 9 foot tables here. From this position, pocket the object ball in the corner and draw the cueball 3 rails (including the one next to the ball) with low outside english, long rail, short rail, long rail. You need to be able to do that 3 times in a row. Take as many tries as you want. If you can't do it, you have no business playing on that table. It's just too tight for you. Obviously missing it is different than not having the stroke to reach (which is by far worse and more telling).
If nobody can do it on that table, it is defective and unfit to be played on (IMO). That shot is pretty much impossible on a Chinese 8 ball table, but that isn't really a "pool table", so it doesn't count.
Set up a ball a diamond below the side pocket, 1/2 inch off the long rail. The cueball is set up 2.5-3 diamonds away from the object ball, on the other side of the side pocket, along the same rail, but a little bit further out giving you an almost straight in shot, just a slight cut. Obviously we are talking about 9 foot tables here. From this position, pocket the object ball in the corner and draw the cueball 3 rails (including the one next to the ball) with low outside english, long rail, short rail, long rail. You need to be able to do that 3 times in a row. Take as many tries as you want. If you can't do it, you have no business playing on that table. It's just too tight for you. Obviously missing it is different than not having the stroke to reach (which is by far worse and more telling).
If nobody can do it on that table, it is defective and unfit to be played on (IMO). That shot is pretty much impossible on a Chinese 8 ball table, but that isn't really a "pool table", so it doesn't count.
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Look, it's like this. A player that has control of his cue ball, can plan out his shot at least 3 balls ahead....is going to cut down the distance between the cue ball and object ball to a manageable play, thereby cutting down the size of a 10' table into zones which in turn cuts down the size of the table. A weak player with little cue ball control, who shoots one ball at a time without thinking ahead for the next shot, is never going to run out in ANY game on a 7ft table, period! Yet for most her3 on AZB, they have the belief that ANYONE can run out on a 7' and a 10' is to big of a table for ANYONE to play sucessful pool on. Most players that can't run a rack of 8ball on a 7' table believe tighter pockets are the way to go to improve your skills, when in fact 5' corner pockets wouldn't help them run out. When i work on rebuilding someone's pool table that plays on Diamonds, who know nothing about AZB, they want their table to play like a Diamond wben I'm done. When ever i work on a pool table for an AZB member, seems like they always want 4' corner pockets, because that's all they ever hear talk about, and how they make your game so much better!! I quite playing pool in Jan 1990, and could still spot the world to those players as they have no chance in hell of beating me even without taking a warm up shot....so to them, a 7ft table might as well be a 10ft as they have no chance of controlling the table to run out.
Absolutely, don’t disagree with anything you’ve written there!
I agree - nobody has anybody business playing or practicing on a 9-foot table with 4" pockets other than pro players. Even 4-1/4" pockets on a 9' table is very limiting and tough, even for "A" players, and virtually no help at all as a practice table to anyone less than "A" level. 4-1/2" pockets is the ideal size for pretty good players looking to challenge themselves on a tighter table, maybe 4-3/8 at the very tightest. Anything tighter than that will just limit their runouts, change their game, and destroy their confidence.
That's an interesting list, but most of the high runs are not qualified -- tournament? money match? practice?
There are also several errors.
Since I Raised the Topic 10' Tables w/ Smaller Pockets.......
Hey Chris......as a teenager back in the early 60's, I started playing pool and every table seemed big.
After "The Hustler" got released, my stepdad & I played at Ames NYC most weekends on Sat nites.
The big money games were played on 9' tables and there were some incredible players there but
make no mistake, there were 10' tables at Ames but the games played on the 10' tables were straight
pool matches.I asked once why the 9 ball matches and ring games weren't played on the 10' tables?
I was surprised when I was told by one of the better players that the same game on a 10' table takes
a lot longer. So naturally I asked how come?
He replied "Because you're going to miss more shots on a 10' table so the game takes a lot longer &
when you are playing for cash like in 9 ball & ring games, you want the games to be finsihed quickly.
The more games you play, the more you can win and there's also momentum switches. He said you
can get on a roll on a 8' or 9' table and snap off some runs and get hot. Bank shots are easier and a
player with a strong break usually pockets a ball. But on the 10' tables, balls just don't scatter & break
as well as on a 9' table and so dry breaks are usually the outcome. He finished by saying it is just a
much harder game on 10' tables and that's why the BCA changed from 10' to 9' tables for the U.S.
Open Championship. The vast majority of pool players were basically playing on 9' tables plus these
tables were smaller so more tables could get squeezed into a pool parlor which meant more business.
Anyway, I played on 10' tables for years and eventually I migrated to 3 cushion which seemed pretty
natural as it was also played on a 10' table. I'll close with this.....and from posts I've read, a lot of people
haven't played much on a 10' table.......does anyone play golf? Okay, great......here goes.
Go play golf on your favorite golf hole........but add 30 yards distance to the tee box, shrink the size of
the green and make the cup opening smaller.......just tinker with this, okay. Now let's see how many pars
or birdies you are able to make versus bogeys or even worse scores?
Longer & smaller makes any game of skill and dexterity harder. If you doubt it, just go play for an hour on a 10' table.
Matt B.
Hey Chris......as a teenager back in the early 60's, I started playing pool and every table seemed big.
After "The Hustler" got released, my stepdad & I played at Ames NYC most weekends on Sat nites.
The big money games were played on 9' tables and there were some incredible players there but
make no mistake, there were 10' tables at Ames but the games played on the 10' tables were straight
pool matches.I asked once why the 9 ball matches and ring games weren't played on the 10' tables?
I was surprised when I was told by one of the better players that the same game on a 10' table takes
a lot longer. So naturally I asked how come?
He replied "Because you're going to miss more shots on a 10' table so the game takes a lot longer &
when you are playing for cash like in 9 ball & ring games, you want the games to be finsihed quickly.
The more games you play, the more you can win and there's also momentum switches. He said you
can get on a roll on a 8' or 9' table and snap off some runs and get hot. Bank shots are easier and a
player with a strong break usually pockets a ball. But on the 10' tables, balls just don't scatter & break
as well as on a 9' table and so dry breaks are usually the outcome. He finished by saying it is just a
much harder game on 10' tables and that's why the BCA changed from 10' to 9' tables for the U.S.
Open Championship. The vast majority of pool players were basically playing on 9' tables plus these
tables were smaller so more tables could get squeezed into a pool parlor which meant more business.
Anyway, I played on 10' tables for years and eventually I migrated to 3 cushion which seemed pretty
natural as it was also played on a 10' table. I'll close with this.....and from posts I've read, a lot of people
haven't played much on a 10' table.......does anyone play golf? Okay, great......here goes.
Go play golf on your favorite golf hole........but add 30 yards distance to the tee box, shrink the size of
the green and make the cup opening smaller.......just tinker with this, okay. Now let's see how many pars
or birdies you are able to make versus bogeys or even worse scores?
Longer & smaller makes any game of skill and dexterity harder. If you doubt it, just go play for an hour on a 10' table.
Matt B.
The front tables (9' tables) at Blue Fin Billiards have been made purposely tight for the regulars.
The pockets are 4 1/4" and let me tell you, I don't want to play on a smaller pocket on a 9' table.
And the snooker table pockets at Blue Fin, well, I'm pretty sure this table originated with Satan.
No matter how good you think you game is, playing on that table is like a visit to "frustration hell".
The pockets are 4 1/4" and let me tell you, I don't want to play on a smaller pocket on a 9' table.
And the snooker table pockets at Blue Fin, well, I'm pretty sure this table originated with Satan.
No matter how good you think you game is, playing on that table is like a visit to "frustration hell".
Agreed. The compiler did include this caveat: "Some of these records are official, others are unverified and probably unverifiable, such as magnificent runs during practice sessions. ... I have bolded the more legitimate high runs to make them easier to find."