The REVO is taking over pool

deanoc said:

iMAKE NO CLAIM TO UNDERSTANDING ANYTHING ABOUT POOL
BUT I SAW DR DAVE MAKE A DEMONSTRATION OF REVO AND SEVERAL OTHER SHAFTS AND I COULD NOT SEE THE DIFFERENCE

I HAVE HITMAY CUES,SOME DRAW EASIER BUT I JUST CAN NOT SEE ANY REASON TO SWITCH
FROM MAPLE

NOT BECAUSE I AM CHEAP,THAT DOES COME INTO PLAY,BUT I CAN NOT SEE ANY REASON TO SWITCH

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Some shots are more forgiving on the Revo (can't speak for the cuetec/becue/mezz) – especially for 9-ball/10-ball. Long distance drag shots with side spin for instance, or say having to stun the cue ball across the table with very little angle to work with. Generally more power compared to most low deflection shafts –*but for someone using maple shafts with a strong taper power is usually not an issue; if the deflection doesn't bother you then you're golden.

We shall see...

dr_dave said:

I suspect you might be adding a little BHE with your FHE pivot (unintentionally). This is quite common. Or maybe you are elevating the cue above level a bit? With a level cue, pure FHE alone doesn't work for any bridge length with the Revo (which is very low deflection).


Good ideas. I like the way you think. I will play around with a few approaches to limit the bridge length during a "modified pivot length test." Maybe 50% BHE and 50% FHE would be a good approach, still using a level cue and fast speed to minimize the effects of swerve (which varies with so many things). The problem with this is: it can be difficult for people to do a pure FHE pivot and to judge 50% of each.

Let me know if you come up with a good solution for an easy, reliable, and repeatable test that anybody can do on their own using only balls and no camera.

Regards,
Dave

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Oh I didn’t realize that pure FHE didn’t work for any bridge length, so you must be right that I’m changing my aim a little when I use it. I guess FHE is just like BHE with your pivot point all the way back at your grip hand, which is a pretty damn long pivot length. :thumbup:

dr_dave said:

Maybe 50% BHE and 50% FHE would be a good approach, still using a level cue and fast speed to minimize the effects of swerve (which varies with so many things).

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You guys reminded me of this old post of mine on this topic. I proposed using a combination of parallel and backhand English - I suppose any combination of BHE/FHE/Parallel works. Note the caveat about bridge length vs. pivot length at the bottom.

pj
chgo

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jrctherake said:

Like I said, I was at docs office.

I have SEPSIS. >50% mortality rate. I'm lucky to be alive. I've been extremely ill.

Rake

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I wish you to get well soon.

S.Vaskovskyi said:

I wish you to get well soon.

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Thank you. It's been rough. Still a ways to go because I can barely stand 5 minutes at a time.

Rake

Patrick Johnson said:

If anybody's interested in Dave's results for these cues expressed in "pivot lengths", here's my calculation of that.

I make two assumptions (shown on the pic):
- the tip offset from center ball is 9/16" (miscue limit)
- the CB travels 73 7/8" (from sitting on the head spot to contacting the foot rail)

The total amount of squirt is measured using the white "ruler" at the bottom of the pic, based on the width of the ball on the rail (each mark = 1/9 of the ball's width = 1/4")

(P.S. I've added my hollowpoint snookerish (10mm) shaft for comparison (black dashed line). I've informally measured its pivot length at about 20" - if that's accurate, it will only squirt about 2" over this distance.)

pj
chgo

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Thank you for doing this Pat. It shows that the first set of tests I did are even worse than I thought. Per the results of my second set of tests (direct natural pivot length measurements), which are much more reliable and repeatable, the natural pivot length of the Revo and Z2 are very close to 19". There are just too many things that can go wrong with the "hit the ball up the table with parallel english" test. I should have edited these out of the video, because they are just causing confusion, especially with my terrible follow-through on those shots.

Regards,
Dave

Patrick Johnson said:

You guys reminded me of this old post of mine on this topic. I proposed using a combination of parallel and backhand English - I suppose any combination of BHE/FHE/Parallel works. Note the caveat about bridge length vs. pivot length at the bottom.

pj
chgo

View attachment 56289

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Thank you for sharing that. I still think pure BHE is better since it is much easier to do consistently; although, with a really long pivot (like with your cue), it can be difficult to stroke straight with such a long bridge.

Have you seen my new BHE/FHE calibration system? We used this at this year's BU Advanced Course Boot Camp, and the students became immediately effective over a wide range of shots with sidespin. This was very satisfying to them since most of them had not been as effective before.

For those interested, here is a document and video describing and demonstrating the basics of the system:

BHE/FHE Calibration System Drill document

NV J.9 - "Got English?" – How to Aim Using Sidespin, With Game-Situation Examples

Regards,
Dave

jrctherake said:

When you say "play", do you mean feel, sound, hit and all that? Or, do you mean ld properties?

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That is exactly what I'm talking about.

The Becue has feel. It isn't "dead", like some cues. However, it doesn't have a lot of "vibration" if you hit the cue ball way off center. The hit still feels solid, as though you hit center ball.

The sound of the Becue is very similar to a cue with a maple shaft. It doesn't have a "weird" or "plink" sound like some cues that are made of material other than wood.

As far as LD properties, I've never really measured it against the REVO. I was using a Predator FAT 314-2 shaft when I got the Becue. The Becue has lower deflection than that shaft. FWIW, I don't mind a little bit of deflection. It sometimes comes in handy on certain shots.

To me, it plays like a wood cue, only better. When I first picked it up, it was natural. There was no learning curve. It was like "point and shoot".

I think the "hit" and "feel" of the Becue is different than the REVO's because the entire cue is made of carbon fiber, not just the shaft.

I've tried the REVO. I like it.

#1 feature for me - Doesn't get dings, no fear of warp.

I also like the stiffness and LD while having a real long Pro taper and not becoming whippy. Although, there's other LD shafts that play just fine.

However, it's just a shaft. It will NOT make any balls. It will NOT win tournaments.

Huge credit to Predator for coming out with yet another "Excalibur" that has the masses champing at the bit. The masses who, on average do falsely believe equipment can help make up for a lack of talent, time practicing and dedication.

The new cue / shaft / technology placebo effect is real.

dr_dave said:

Thank you for doing this Pat. It shows that the first set of tests I did are even worse than I thought. Per the results of my second set of tests (direct natural pivot length measurements), which are much more reliable and repeatable, the natural pivot length of the Revo and Z2 are very close to 19". There are just too many things that can go wrong with the "hit the ball up the table with parallel english" test. I should have edited these out of the video, because they are just causing confusion, especially with my terrible follow-through on those shots.

Regards,
Dave

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The pivot points surprised me, but the relative amounts of squirt look plausible... maybe one thing throwing them all off the same amount?

I think you're being a little too hard on your follow-through. I see that little last second hook a lot from very good players when they use lots of side. I notice that it's in the opposite direction of the side spin you're using, which makes me think it's a natural "rebound" of the tip after being pushed the other way - and it doesn't affect the shot.

pj
chgo

dr_dave said:

Thank you for sharing that. I still think pure BHE is better since it is much easier to do consistently; although, with a really long pivot (like with your cue), it can be difficult to stroke straight with such a long bridge.

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I'll take your word for which is better - I just re-posted this as an interesting coincidence. I've never tried using any system for squirt correction - I just set up with estimated squirt correction "built in" to my aim. On shots that I don't feel confident that way, I'll start out aiming with centerball and adjust "manually" from there - which usually looks something like FHE.

Have you seen my new BHE/FHE calibration system? We used this at this year's BU Advanced Course Boot Camp, and the students became immediately effective over a wide range of shots with sidespin. This was very satisfying to them since most of them had not been as effective before.

For those interested, here is a document and video describing and demonstrating the basics of the system:

BHE/FHE Calibration System Drill document

NV J.9 - "Got English?" – How to Aim Using Sidespin, With Game-Situation Examples

Regards,
Dave

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Yes, I've seen it - nice job.

pj
chgo

Patrick Johnson said:

The pivot points surprised me, but the relative amounts of squirt look plausible... maybe one thing throwing them all off the same amount?

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Good point. I agree that what is important is the relative amounts of squirt in that comparison. While filming (and before seeing the video), I thought I was stroking them fairly well and consistently (with the many attempts not shown in the video also having close to the same results). What I should have done was repeat everything with left sidespin also. I will certainly do this with any future tests or comparisons like this. I did it with the "natural pivot length" tests (but didn't include it in the video), and I got the same result on both sides.

Patrick Johnson said:

I think you're being a little too hard on your follow-through. I see that little last second hook a lot from very good players when they use lots of side. I notice that it's in the opposite direction of the side spin you're using, which makes me think it's a natural "rebound" of the tip after being pushed the other way - and it doesn't affect the shot.

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Thank you for trying to make me feel better about my horrible follow-through. I hope you are right. I will be looking at this closer when I can find the time.

Catch you later,
Dave

Dr. Dave, I saw the video for finding the natural pivot point and you said for the revo and the Z shaft it's 19". I watch the videos in post # 109 & none of your shots have a pivot point anywhere near 19". I'm confused.
I guess it don't matter much, I'm 64 and I play only with maple with my pivot point about 6 inches. At 19", I might miss the whole ball! lol

BTW, I've watched most all of your videos and I've learned a lot from them, thank you!

Johnny Rosato said:

Dr. Dave, I saw the video for finding the natural pivot point and you said for the revo and the Z shaft it's 19". I watch the videos in post # 109 & none of your shots have a pivot point anywhere near 19". I'm confused. I guess it don't matter much, I'm 64 and I play only with maple with my pivot point about 6 inches. At 19", I might miss the whole ball! lol

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The shaft "natural pivot length" applies only to short and really fast shots with a level cue, where there is squirt, but no swerve. (For more info and demonstrations, see squirt and swerve effects.) With most shots at a pool table, there is swerve, so net CB deflection (the combined effects of squirt and swerve) is much less, requiring a shorter effective pivot length.

I know this can be confusing, and you honestly don't need to know anything about this to play well. The "natural pivot length" test is just a good way to compare shafts in an easy, reliable, and methodical way.

FYI, if you use my new BHE/FHE Calibration System, or if you learn to compensate for squrit, swerve, and throw intuitively through years of successful practice and experience, it honestly doesn't matter what shaft or bridge length you use. With BHE/FHE, you just need to learn the percentages to use for each type of shot, per the info in my video and document here:

aim compensation when using sidespin

Johnny Rosato said:

BTW, I've watched most all of your videos and I've learned a lot from them, thank you!

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I'm glad to hear it. You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :grin-square:

Regards,
Dave