The REVO is taking over pool

[Derek7646]

You played a Revo one night and decide it's the best cue you ever had? Wow, that's a bold statement.

When you know, you know. When you drive a car off the lot for a test drive, how long is that test drive? When you buy a new pair of shoes, you try them on and go for what, 30 seconds of walking around to see if you like them? When you try a $200 wagyu beef steak from Craft steak in Vegas, do you immediately know its the best steak you've ever had with the first bite? Or do you need to eat it as much as every other steak you've had to know the difference?

I can come up with more, but i think you will get the point.

 

[garczar]

There is no question that "dead animal skin" is an amazing material, but wouldn't it be nice to have a chalkless tip that has a miscue limit as good or even better than leather? That would definitely be a truly revolutionary innovation in the billiards industry for which people would be willing to pay a premium price.

Regards,
Dave

Guess i'm just a caveman. Just knowing that my tip was once a snorting beast is kinda cool.

 

[Meucciplayer]

When you know, you know. When you drive a car off the lot for a test drive, how long is that test drive?

Bought a brand new Mercedes once and it was really great on the first 50 miles. After coming home (around 150 miles) I found out that the driver's seat was junk since my back hurt more than in any other car I had before. After a couple of years and a few 100k miles I knew all the problems (mainly electrical/electronics) that car had. So no, I was happy for 50 miles, after that it was a *very* mixed bag of beans. And a Mercedes isn't exactly a Yugo, right?

When you buy a new pair of shoes, you try them on and go for what, 30 seconds of walking around to see if you like them?

Another dubious example. Did you never buy a pair of shoes that later on caused blisters? Happened to me at least twice in the past 10 years.

I do agree with you on the food part, maybe not on the first bite but ...

However, a new cue takes a while to get accustomed to, at least for me and most people I know. For me it is usually about 2 to 6 weeks at least until I can really tell if that cue fits my style of playing. I agree that I can tell a cue I don't like right away. Same with the cars and shoes, so there your examples might fit better. That cue might still be manageable after lots of practice with it but why should one try when there are cues that don't immediately fall in the "don't like the hit" category.

I am not saying you can't believe "I basically like a certain cue" after a couple of shots. But I and the people I know would not be able to determine it to be the best cue I ever had after one night. Some absolute beginners and pros might be an exception to the rule. Else I would call it the "new cue syndrome" which makes new stuff overly pleasant to the mind. Happened to me before, too. Not with cues but with other stuff.

 

[Derek7646]

Bought a brand new Mercedes once and it was really great on the first 50 miles. After coming home (around 150 miles) I found out that the driver's seat was junk since my back hurt more than in any other car I had before. After a couple of years and a few 100k miles I knew all the problems (mainly electrical/electronics) that car had. So no, I was happy for 50 miles, after that it was a *very* mixed bag of beans. And a Mercedes isn't exactly a Yugo, right?



Another dubious example. Did you never buy a pair of shoes that later on caused blisters? Happened to me at least twice in the past 10 years.

I do agree with you on the food part, maybe not on the first bite but ...

However, a new cue takes a while to get accustomed to, at least for me and most people I know. For me it is usually about 2 to 6 weeks at least until I can really tell if that cue fits my style of playing. I agree that I can tell a cue I don't like right away. Same with the cars and shoes, so there your examples might fit better. That cue might still be manageable after lots of practice with it but why should one try when there are cues that don't immediately fall in the "don't like the hit" category.

I am not saying you can't believe "I basically like a certain cue" after a couple of shots. But I and the people I know would not be able to determine it to be the best cue I ever had after one night. Some absolute beginners and pros might be an exception to the rule. Else I would call it the "new cue syndrome" which makes new stuff overly pleasant to the mind. Happened to me before, too. Not with cues but with other stuff.

You intentionally missed the point of what i was saying by finding a moot counterpoint, but we can forget that ever happened.

Well, for the last five years, i have had this P3 with a 314, then a Z shaft for a bit, so i am accustomed to predator. As far as getting used to the cue, going from a low deflection predator to an even lower deflection predator with a carbon shaft wasn't a drastic change, such as going from a dufferin to a revo, or what have you. The shaft is smoother, the weight is lighter, the balance is better and the hit feels better, so you can take that how you want it, as it is my opinion on me playing with it for 7ish hours last night.

Also, i don't know the sample size of "you and people you know", but i can tell you without a doubt that there are other pool players in the universe that are not like you and the people you know and what you and people you know see as normal, is likely not normal, as that is an incredibly small sample size in some other part of the country, most likely.

At the end of the day, i have had a BK rush break cue for over a month and i loved the feel of how it struck the cue ball so accurately and powerfully. After that, i got the urge to try a revo playing cue, so i shot with someone who had it. Ran a few racks with it and i thoroughly enjoyed just about everything about it. A month later, after desperately searching for a revo, any revo...used or not, i finally came across one from Mike Deschaine and bought it from him. Shot with it last night and it was the best money i've ever spent on pool. I don't know why you're adamant about trying to disprove my liking the revo, or whatever point you are trying to make, but its not just "new cue syndrome". Not saying that has nothing to do with it, but i'm saying the cue is amazing and i bought it for a reason, as everyone else is trying to do since they are completely sold out and on waiting lists going for $700 on eBay. I don't have any stock in predator, nor am i a distributor, i'm just saying that maybe people like things that you don't like? Maybe people are able to tell if they like something without your opinion on the matter? Anythings possible, right?

 

[johnnysd]

I am not a huge fan of the REVO, I think the BeCue plays significantly nicer.

 

[Derek7646]

I am not a huge fan of the REVO, I think the BeCue plays significantly nicer.

Never shot with or really heard about BeCue, what's the dealio with BeCue? Would have thought another carbon fiber shaft would be more well known, like the upcoming cuetech in December that Shane has been destroying people with.

 

[Meucciplayer]

Peace

I am not saying the Revo is not a good cue. For thatj statement my own experience with it is way too limited. Just tried a buddy's Revo one night. It is not for me, coming from a Meucci. Totally different. I might be able to enjoy it after a long time practising with it. Whatever.

I said before that I recommend anyone wanting a Revo or any other new cue to go buy it. It may improve your game because you enjoy it.

The only impression I get recently is that Revos "are the craze". People try to tell us old-fashioned "woodies" that we are somewhat left behind. Which I can't believe until all the tournament wins are taken by cf shaft owners

 

[Derek7646]

Yeah, everyone has their in taste in cues, i'm sure. I don't know about you, but my first "real" cue was my P3 with a 314 and predator just holds a special place in my heart, as i'm sure Meucci does for you

I personally think its a combination of predator's innovation and hype building by controlling the supply. They are fantastic cues and are worth so much because of the great demand predator has created for them. These would probably go for $300, maybe $400 if readily available to purchase but since they aren't, people are paying what they value the cue at, ie: $600+.

At the end of the day, who cares what others think, right? If someone mentions something about a woodie to you, ask them for a $100 a set lesson in what their magical shaft can do

In the Chinese Joy tournament, i saw a lot of revo's and a cuetech carbon fiber shaft used by our pride and joy Shane

 

[dr_dave]

FYI, I just posted a new video covering many topics discussed throughout the thread. Here it is:

NV J.12 - How to Select a Pool Cue, Cue Ball Deflection, Carbon Fiber, Revo vs. Cuetec

Enjoy,
Dave

 

[HawaiianEye]

I am not a huge fan of the REVO, I think the BeCue plays significantly nicer.

I think the Becue plays better than the REVO also, but everybody has their own opinions.

I tried both of them before I bought the Becue.

 

[jrctherake]

I think the Becue plays better than the REVO also, but everybody has their own opinions.

I tried both of them before I bought the Becue.

When you say "play", do you mean feel, sound, hit and all that? Or, do you mean ld properties?

It's been proven over and over that revo is much lower in ld properties. I've played with both as well and have vids just like dr. Dave "proving" that the revo performs better when talking about lower deflection. A good bit actually.

Now, having said that, I can run the ghost out of town with revo, becue, cuetec or a maple players shaft. So, we could say all cues play the same if a player's skill level is high enough.

 

[BRussell]

I think the Becue plays better than the REVO also, but everybody has their own opinions.

I tried both of them before I bought the Becue.

When you say "play", do you mean feel, sound, hit and all that? Or, do you mean ld properties?

It's been proven over and over that revo is much lower in ld properties. I've played with both as well and have vids just like dr. Dave "proving" that the revo performs better when talking about lower deflection. A good bit actually.

Now, having said that, I can run the ghost out of town with revo, becue, cuetec or a maple players shaft. So, we could say all cues play the same if a player's skill level is high enough.

I've never seen a deflection comparison between Becue and Revo. Can you link to the videos you're talking about?

 

[jrctherake]

I've never seen a deflection comparison between Becue and Revo. Can you link to the videos you're talking about?

I'm docs office right now. Dr Dave has very similar videos.

Bottom line:

If you are concerned about deflection revo is your cue.

If more deflection is ok and longer shaft is a must, go becue.

It is the Indian but, it sure is nice to have a straight arrow.

Rake

 

[BRussell]

I'm docs office right now. Dr Dave has very similar videos.

Bottom line:

If you are concerned about deflection revo is your cue.

If more deflection is ok and longer shaft is a must, go becue.

It is the Indian but, it sure is nice to have a straight arrow.

Rake

Dr. Dave does not have a video comparing a Becue to the Revo. As far as I know he's never used a Becue. I want to press you on this because you said, in response to a post comparing the Becue and Revo:

It's been proven over and over that revo is much lower in ld properties. I've played with both as well and have vids just like dr. Dave "proving" that the revo performs better when talking about lower deflection. A good bit actually.

Is that true, i.e., has it been proven over and over that the Revo has lower deflection than Becue? Or were you just stating generally that the Revo is lower deflection than most other cues in general?

 

[dr_dave]

Dr. Dave does not have a video comparing a Becue to the Revo. As far as I know he's never used a Becue. I want to press you on this because you said, in response to a post comparing the Becue and Revo:

That is correct. The only commercially available carbon fiber shafts I have tested are the Predator Revo (12.4) and the Cuetec CT-15K (pre-production sample), per the following video:

NV J.12 - How to Select a Pool Cue, Cue Ball Deflection, Carbon Fiber, Revo vs. Cuetec

But anybody can easily test and compare any other cues or shafts using the simple and reliable "natural pivot length" procedure I demonstrate in the video.

Regards,
Dave

 

[BRussell]

That is correct. The only commercially available carbon fiber shafts I have tested are the Predator Revo (12.4) and the Cuetec CT-15K (pre-production sample), per the following video:

NV J.12 - How to Select a Pool Cue, Cue Ball Deflection, Carbon Fiber, Revo vs. Cuetec

But anybody can easily test and compare any other cues or shafts using the simple and reliable "natural pivot length" procedure I demonstrate in the video.

Regards,
Dave

Yeah I think that pivot length test is a little bit easier to be objective and replicate than the usual "shoot down table" test. It seems like it would be so easy to just shift a little different, or aim a little different in that test.

Quick story: When I was at BCA Nats this summer, I talked to a Predator rep and he said the Revo had such low deflection that you can just shift over (i.e., use BHE) and it works perfectly. I told him I thought that would be over-compensating and asked him to show me, so he shot about 4-5 shots in a row with BHE and he missed every one lol. When I asked him about using FHE instead he didn't know what I was talking about. (He was actually a really nice guy but obviously hadn't read your stuff Dr. Dave.)

I use an LD OB pro and I find FHE works well for me across a wide variety of shots. I don't use BHE at all. That got me thinking about these pivot tests you're doing: Maybe using FHE instead would show a more practical bridge length for these LD cues. You wouldn't need to bridge some ridiculous amount. Even comparing pure BHE to pure FHE on the table length shot at a ball would give a good sense of the cue deflection. I know you've done some of that in your "calibration" video, but not really as a test of the cue deflection.

 

[dr_dave]

That is correct. The only commercially available carbon fiber shafts I have tested are the Predator Revo (12.4) and the Cuetec CT-15K (pre-production sample), per the following video:

NV J.12 - How to Select a Pool Cue, Cue Ball Deflection, Carbon Fiber, Revo vs. Cuetec

But anybody can easily test and compare any other cues or shafts using the simple and reliable "natural pivot length" procedure I demonstrate in the video.

Yeah I think that pivot length test is a little bit easier to be objective and replicate than the usual "shoot down table" test. It seems like it would be so easy to just shift a little different, or aim a little different in that test.

Agreed. It is very easy to make slight errors with sidespin amount, tip contact point vertical position, shot speed, parallel shift aim, etc. The "natural pivot length test" is much more reliable, repeatable, and easier.

Quick story: When I was at BCA Nats this summer, I talked to a Predator rep and he said the Revo had such low deflection that you can just shift over (i.e., use BHE) and it works perfectly. I told him I thought that would be over-compensating and asked him to show me, so he shot about 4-5 shots in a row with BHE and he missed every one lol. When I asked him about using FHE instead he didn't know what I was talking about. (He was actually a really nice guy but obviously hadn't read your stuff Dr. Dave.)

Thanks for the story. I'm not surprised. Most people in the billiards world (especially sales reps) have a "less than complete" understanding of squirt, swerve, BHE, and FHE effects.

I use an LD OB pro and I find FHE works well for me across a wide variety of shots. I don't use BHE at all.

I suspect you might be adding a little BHE with your FHE pivot (unintentionally). This is quite common. Or maybe you are elevating the cue above level a bit? With a level cue, pure FHE alone doesn't work for any bridge length with the Revo (which is very low deflection).

That got me thinking about these pivot tests you're doing: Maybe using FHE instead would show a more practical bridge length for these LD cues. You wouldn't need to bridge some ridiculous amount. Even comparing pure BHE to pure FHE on the table length shot at a ball would give a good sense of the cue deflection. I know you've done some of that in your "calibration" video, but not really as a test of the cue deflection.

Good ideas. I like the way you think. I will play around with a few approaches to limit the bridge length during a "modified pivot length test." Maybe 50% BHE and 50% FHE would be a good approach, still using a level cue and fast speed to minimize the effects of swerve (which varies with so many things). The problem with this is: it can be difficult for people to do a pure FHE pivot and to judge 50% of each.

Let me know if you come up with a good solution for an easy, reliable, and repeatable test that anybody can do on their own using only balls and no camera.

Regards,
Dave

 

[jrctherake]

Dr. Dave does not have a video comparing a Becue to the Revo. As far as I know he's never used a Becue. I want to press you on this because you said, in response to a post comparing the Becue and Revo:



Is that true, i.e., has it been proven over and over that the Revo has lower deflection than Becue? Or were you just stating generally that the Revo is lower deflection than most other cues in general?

Like I said, I was at docs office.

I have SEPSIS. >50% mortality rate. I'm lucky to be alive. I've been extremely ill.

As soon as I get better I will make a trip to my buddies and get the recorder with the vid on it.

The proven over and over part was about other cues in general.

My vid is very similar to Dr. Daves. It is 4 minutes long and shows only the spot to end rail shot with extreme spin with a parallel shift.

As far as the revo vs becue prime-m, they are close but, close is not "same".

===========================================================
===========================================================
Again, what the vid shows:

If you are concerned about deflection "only" revo is your cue.

If a "little" more deflection is ok and "longer" shaft is a must, go becue.

It is the Indian but, it sure is nice to have a straight arrow.

BTW, I think the becue has a better "feel", "hit" and "sound". Much closer to what a maple shaft has. So, if feel/hit/sound are important: go becue.
=========================================================
=========================================================

I did the vid to test several cues while I had all of them at once. Rarely do I get that chance. A friend of mine has almost every single cf cue you can think of, and many other customs.

He told me the becue and revo are WAY ahead of the rest. He also told me the other attributes are true before the vid, and the vid turned out just as he said it would.


To give you an idea, the becue had a just a little more deflection. It was closer to 314 range in Dr. Dave's vid. Like I said, difference is not huge but, there is a difference.

Rake

 

[deanoc]

iMAKE NO CLAIM TO UNDERSTANDING ANYTHING ABOUT POOL
BUT I SAW DR DAVE MAKE A DEMONSTRATION OF REVO AND SEVERAL OTHER SHAFTS AND I COULD NOT SEE THE DIFFERENCE

I HAVE HITMAY CUES,SOME DRAW EASIER BUT I JUST CAN NOT SEE ANY REASON TO SWITCH
FROM MAPLE

NOT BECAUSE I AM CHEAP,THAT DOES COME INTO PLAY,BUT I CAN NOT SEE ANY REASON TO SWITCH


DR DAVE SENT ME A PERSONAL MESSAGE ,TRYING TO EXPLAIN THAT I WAS MISINTERPRETING HIS DATA
HE ASKED ME TO WATCH AGAIN AND WATCH MORE

I DID AND I GOT CONFUSED WITH THINGS LIKE FLEX POINT

I DO APPRECIATE HIS CONTACTING ME AND TRYING TO HELP

I AM TRYING TO BUY A REVO TO FIT MY SCHON,BUT I AM NOT SURE IT WILL HELP MY PLAY

IN FACT IF I AM NOT MISTAKEN DAVE SAID NONE OF THESE WILL LIKELY HELP AND THEREFORE I AM
NOT REALLY PLANNING TO STUDY OR PRACTICE

THANKS FOR THE KINDNESS

 

[Patrick Johnson]

That is correct. The only commercially available carbon fiber shafts I have tested are the Predator Revo (12.4) and the Cuetec CT-15K (pre-production sample), per the following video:

NV J.12 - How to Select a Pool Cue, Cue Ball Deflection, Carbon Fiber, Revo vs. Cuetec

If anybody's interested in Dave's results for these cues expressed in "pivot lengths", here's my calculation of that.

I make two assumptions (shown on the pic):
- the tip offset from center ball is 9/16" (miscue limit)
- the CB travels 73 7/8" (from sitting on the head spot to contacting the foot rail)

The total amount of squirt is measured using the white "ruler" at the bottom of the pic, based on the width of the ball on the rail (each mark = 1/9 of the ball's width = 1/4")

(P.S. I've added my hollowpoint snookerish (10mm) shaft for comparison (black dashed line). I've informally measured its pivot length at about 20" - if that's accurate, it will only squirt about 2" over this distance.)

pj
chgo

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