cue makers/joint collar issue

Gerry

Gerry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi everyone,

Yesterday while playing my cue felt a little weird. After an inspection, I found the joint collar on my (no good can come from naming the maker IMO) had become loose? So, I went out to my shop and unscrewed the collar to find a standard stainless steel threaded joint collar, BUT....the forearm section was just a smooth tenon....no threads? It was clear the maker used some type of epoxy/adhesive/gorilla glue? to mount the collar on the tenon, but I was REALLY amazed there were no threads? Here is what I did to repair. Please respond if you have any thoughts.

1. I put the cue on my lathe and cleaned the old epoxy off the tenon.

2. Because there was not enough "meat" on the tenon to thread, I cut a series of cross hatches about 1/16" deep to give the new epoxy something to grab on to.

3. I mixed up some 2-part epoxy I normally use on gun stocks to bed the rifle action....and re-set the joint collar....then clamped to set.

This morning I cleaned it all up and hit a few balls to inspect, and the hit is fine, and no worse for the ware.

What do you guys think of this ordeal? I am not really angry, but somewhat surprised at the build decision. The maker is known, but not a big time dude...actually he is retired and does not need any BS from me.

How do you guys attatch the joint collar on your cues?

thanx,

Gerry
 
whammo57

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
Gerry said:
Hi everyone,

Yesterday while playing my cue felt a little weird. After an inspection, I found the joint collar on my (no good can come from naming the maker IMO) had become loose? So, I went out to my shop and unscrewed the collar to find a standard stainless steel threaded joint collar, BUT....the forearm section was just a smooth tenon....no threads? It was clear the maker used some type of epoxy/adhesive/gorilla glue? to mount the collar on the tenon, but I was REALLY amazed there were no threads? Here is what I did to repair. Please respond if you have any thoughts.

1. I put the cue on my lathe and cleaned the old epoxy off the tenon.

2. Because there was not enough "meat" on the tenon to thread, I cut a series of cross hatches about 1/16" deep to give the new epoxy something to grab on to.

3. I mixed up some 2-part epoxy I normally use on gun stocks to bed the rifle action....and re-set the joint collar....then clamped to set.

This morning I cleaned it all up and hit a few balls to inspect, and the hit is fine, and no worse for the ware.

What do you guys think of this ordeal? I am not really angry, but somewhat surprised at the build decision. The maker is known, but not a big time dude...actually he is retired and does not need any BS from me.

How do you guys attatch the joint collar on your cues?

thanx,

Gerry[/QUOTE

I have seen many joint caps and butt caps come loose and I repaired them. Some were threaded and some were not..... Certainly, a threaded part will be less likely to come loose than an un threaded one.

It also depends on the choice of adhesive that was used.

Kim
Click to expand...
 
RBC

RBC

Deceased
Gerry

It's actually quite common to use a smooth bore and epoxy rings in place. It's been used for many many years with great success.

But, it has to be done right for it to work properly. The fit must be snug, but not too tight. And, the epoxy used is very important. Back in my early days, long before OB, I used to use 5 minute epoxy for collars. After a few years, I noticed that a few collars had come loose. After a little research, I decided to switch to a slower set, harder curing, epoxy, and it fixed all those issues.

Epoxies are not created equal.

Royce
 
Tramp Steamer

Tramp Steamer

One Pocket enthusiast.
Silver Member
If you paid for it then give him all the BS you want to.
I will say that a joint collar coming loose is unusual, and lucky you for having the means to make the repairs. My guess is it'll never happen to you again.
It's never happened to me, and I used to build, and repair cues. C'est le vie. :smile:
 
Gerry

Gerry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tramp Steamer said:
If you paid for it then give him all the BS you want to.
I will say that a joint collar coming loose is unusual, and lucky you for having the means to make the repairs. My guess is it'll never happen to you again.
It's never happened to me, and I used to build, and repair cues. C'est le vie. :smile:
Click to expand...

Hey Tramp, turn on your spell check, the end of the post is all garbled dude! :)

Well, the builder is LP Customs, and to this point there has been no issues. I have been bashing the hell outta the cue playing 3c lately, so I don't know?

Thanks Royce, I have all the confidence in my 2 part epoxy, but we will know soon enough. As you know, I have been playing with an OB Pro with "0" issues

thanks man!

G.
 
Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
That's not an uncommon way of doing the joint. I have had two BIG name makers both tell me that the joint tenon doesn't need threads. Rather they leave it slightly oversized just to the point where you can force thread the collar on, but can't slide it on. Doing this with adhesive will lock the collar in place forever in any normal situation. I'd guess since yours came loose, it could be the fit wasn't snug enough or possibly he used the wrong adhesive & the tenon shrank a little. Doesn't mean he screwed anything up, just that circumstances dictated that it come loose. It help up & played fine for quite a while, so it must have been good.

Things we don't know is if the cue has ever been subjected to extreme temperatures, hot or cold, or if perhaps you really crank down tight on the shaft, etc. None of that means it was your fault, just that the cue possibly endured more than is normal for cues. And maybe none of that happened and the cue still came apart. Perhaps the glue just broke down. Point being, there's not really any blame. Things just sometimes happen. If he were an active cue maker, no doubt he'd want to know (in a private manner) that it happened so he could refine his technique to prevent it from happening again. We don't start making cues & suddenly know everything. We learn over time, and things like this are a lesson that make us better. It's nothing to bash anybody about, so good on you for not doing so.
 
Gerry

Gerry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
qbilder said:
That's not an uncommon way of doing the joint. I have had two BIG name makers both tell me that the joint tenon doesn't need threads. Rather they leave it slightly oversized just to the point where you can force thread the collar on, but can't slide it on. Doing this with adhesive will lock the collar in place forever in any normal situation. I'd guess since yours came loose, it could be the fit wasn't snug enough or possibly he used the wrong adhesive & the tenon shrank a little. Doesn't mean he screwed anything up, just that circumstances dictated that it come loose. It help up & played fine for quite a while, so it must have been good.

Things we don't know is if the cue has ever been subjected to extreme temperatures, hot or cold, or if perhaps you really crank down tight on the shaft, etc. None of that means it was your fault, just that the cue possibly endured more than is normal for cues. And maybe none of that happened and the cue still came apart. Perhaps the glue just broke down. Point being, there's not really any blame. Things just sometimes happen. If he were an active cue maker, no doubt he'd want to know (in a private manner) that it happened so he could refine his technique to prevent it from happening again. We don't start making cues & suddenly know everything. We learn over time, and things like this are a lesson that make us better. It's nothing to bash anybody about, so good on you for not doing so.
Click to expand...

Hi q,
No, this was NEVER going to become a bash anyone session, and LP Cues are great IMO. What I wanted is just this....a good conversation about tecnique so we all can learn. I am in the process of converting some of my tooling to work on cues, and I am learning quickly.

The cue really never leaves the house, except for trips to the pool room in my case, and NEVER in the trunk etc. If I had to guess I would say the adhesive failed/didn't mix or spread correctly. There were spots where it did not bond, and was almost powder like? I used JB Weld and I hit balls with it today and the cue is quiet as can be....very happy with it.

Thanx for the input guys,

Gerry
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I had a collar come loose too, recently. Upon removal, it was into an unthreaded tenon. My cuemaker bud says it likely came loose because of poor facing tolerance, the inner face of the ring did not fully seat against the outer side of the tenon.pro tip: before removal of the collar, plac a mark this spans both the tenon and ring, so the line up the same way upon refitting.

RBC said:
Gerry

It's actually quite common to use a smooth bore and epoxy rings in place. It's been used for many many years with great success.

But, it has to be done right for it to work properly. The fit must be snug, but not too tight. And, the epoxy used is very important. Back in my early days, long before OB, I used to use 5 minute epoxy for collars. After a few years, I noticed that a few collars had come loose. After a little research, I decided to switch to a slower set, harder curing, epoxy, and it fixed all those issues.

Epoxies are not created equal.

Royce
Click to expand...
 
Cornerman

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
Gerry said:
Hi everyone,

Yesterday while playing my cue felt a little weird. After an inspection, I found the joint collar on my (no good can come from naming the maker IMO) had become loose? So, I went out to my shop and unscrewed the collar to find a standard stainless steel threaded joint collar, BUT....the forearm section was just a smooth tenon....no threads? It was clear the maker used some type of epoxy/adhesive/gorilla glue? to mount the collar on the tenon, but I was REALLY amazed there were no threads? Here is what I did to repair. Please respond if you have any thoughts.

1. I put the cue on my lathe and cleaned the old epoxy off the tenon.

2. Because there was not enough "meat" on the tenon to thread, I cut a series of cross hatches about 1/16" deep to give the new epoxy something to grab on to.

3. I mixed up some 2-part epoxy I normally use on gun stocks to bed the rifle action....and re-set the joint collar....then clamped to set.

This morning I cleaned it all up and hit a few balls to inspect, and the hit is fine, and no worse for the ware.

What do you guys think of this ordeal? I am not really angry, but somewhat surprised at the build decision. The maker is known, but not a big time dude...actually he is retired and does not need any BS from me.

How do you guys attatch the joint collar on your cues?

thanx,

Gerry
Click to expand...
PM sent.

Freddie
 
Tramp Steamer

Tramp Steamer

One Pocket enthusiast.
Silver Member
Gerry said:
Hey Tramp, turn on your spell check, the end of the post is all garbled dude! :)
Well, the builder is LP Customs, and to this point there has been no issues. I have been bashing the hell outta the cue playing 3c lately, so I don't know?
Thanks Royce, I have all the confidence in my 2 part epoxy, but we will know soon enough. As you know, I have been playing with an OB Pro with "0" issues
thanks man!G.
Click to expand...

C'est le vie, is French for "That's life", Einstein. :smile:
 
Gerry

Gerry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tramp Steamer said:
I'm sorry. It was the adult beverages. They had clouded my mind to the point where I didn't see the humor in your response. Damn Tequila. :)
Click to expand...

My god man!....don't ever let it get to where humor is #2 behind anything in my book! :)

If I ever write..." seriously! I'm being serious here" I give AZB the right to pleez ban me forever!

Have fun!

G.

please see Edit reasoning for my latest edit.....enough said!
 
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