How big of a "pool sin" did I commit???
- Thread starter lowgear
- Start date
Two good things happened from all this.
#1 You've learned to stay away from pool room idiocy like that.
#2 The other people won't have to deal with Tyrone again.
:shrug:
Wrong but understandable and the whole concept of having to call that shot out loud is just ridiculously wrong and a sad commentary of our time. Back in the Straight Pool (a call shot game) times the finals of a tournament might be played without a single ball called "out loud" by the shooter.(and no objections)
Last edited:
In my opinion, you shouldn't have said anything...but you already know that. And by you admitting that you felt wrong immediately after saying it, you already knew it wasn't right beforehand. Lesson learned.
That said, two rules need to be added/changed from the ones you now play under. 1.) An obvious shot need not be called, and 2.) Any legal form of safety play should be allowed. It's part of the game and it will put an end to arguments of whether a player was shooting an intentional safety or not.
Get with the TD and discuss my proposed rule changes. Arguing in a bar (where people/players are drinking) can sometimes lead to violence between players. I'd get this fixed ASAP.
Maniac
That said, two rules need to be added/changed from the ones you now play under. 1.) An obvious shot need not be called, and 2.) Any legal form of safety play should be allowed. It's part of the game and it will put an end to arguments of whether a player was shooting an intentional safety or not.
Get with the TD and discuss my proposed rule changes. Arguing in a bar (where people/players are drinking) can sometimes lead to violence between players. I'd get this fixed ASAP.
Maniac
What he said.
Agreed that you need to talk to the TD and try to get the rules updated a little bit regarding allowing legal safeties. Particularly if there is a $$ calcutta involved, it is just silly and ignorant to be playing by such outdated "no safety allowed" rules.
Any decent player would be able to disguise a safety in a carefully missed shot - yet another potential reason for an argument to ensue. I can only assume the TD (if there even is one) is not much of a player himself, and is certainly not aware of the more updated, sensible 8-ball tournament rules.
Any decent player would be able to disguise a safety in a carefully missed shot - yet another potential reason for an argument to ensue. I can only assume the TD (if there even is one) is not much of a player himself, and is certainly not aware of the more updated, sensible 8-ball tournament rules.
I think the biggest pool sin you committed was playing in that tourney...
What Gar said.
No sin at all. I would never call my opponent on sinking the 8 without calling an obvious shot. The rule is stupid and being taken out of the spirit of the rule which was intended to not allow players to shit the 8 and claim they meant to play that 3 railer. Rules are less important than a person's character.
Your biggest mistake was not pointing at the guy next to you when everybody turned to look.
Thanks everyone for your comments.
I'm 63 and been around pool halls and gamblers since my bookie uncle ran
a pool room in the the 60's. I KNOW what I did was very wrong and have
never done anything like that before and never will again. My poor cousin
doesn't play pool often anymore and he's not the sharpest tool in the shed
to begin with. He was SO proud of himself for making it as far as he did.
After every match he would come to me beaming a smile. I was just caught
up in the moment and the situation knowing Tyrone was the ONE guy in
the joint who would call him on the shot and it would have crushed him
to get knocked out that way after coming so far.
To clear a few things up. It is not a pool room but a barroom with 4 bar boxes.
The TD per say plays himself and merely collects the money and handles the
payouts and the calcutta. The same 12-20 locals play every week. As far as
rules anyone who has played in very many unfamiliar bars as I have over the
years knows that the "rules" vary greatly from one to the next. And sometimes
a new "rule" is established on the spot. You just have to adapt to get the cash
AND get out of there without a fight.
I've played in this particular tournament for months now and I know the rules
they play by. Found out several of them the hard way. For example, if you
shoot a ball to a pocket that has another ball close by you can carom off the
ball but you have to call it...either clean or off that ball. Just calling the pocket
isn't enough. AND the 8 ball HAS to be made "clean". You cannot carom it
off another ball in any circumstance. Plus on the break say you make two
small balls. The table is still open. I guess this is pretty standard but I've
played in many a barroom where you would have the little ones after the
break in this situation.
As far as the "no safety" rule it was put in play to give the not so talented
players a fighting chance. Of course a wiley player can play a safe shot
without making it obvious, so the rule actually works in favor of the better
players anyway.
I do appreciate all the comments. I've lurked on this site for many years
and never really joined in any discussions and it was nice to see so many
people chime in.
All I know to do now is try and contact Tyrone and admit that I was
most definitely in the wrong and offer a sincere apology.
I'm 63 and been around pool halls and gamblers since my bookie uncle ran
a pool room in the the 60's. I KNOW what I did was very wrong and have
never done anything like that before and never will again. My poor cousin
doesn't play pool often anymore and he's not the sharpest tool in the shed
to begin with. He was SO proud of himself for making it as far as he did.
After every match he would come to me beaming a smile. I was just caught
up in the moment and the situation knowing Tyrone was the ONE guy in
the joint who would call him on the shot and it would have crushed him
to get knocked out that way after coming so far.
To clear a few things up. It is not a pool room but a barroom with 4 bar boxes.
The TD per say plays himself and merely collects the money and handles the
payouts and the calcutta. The same 12-20 locals play every week. As far as
rules anyone who has played in very many unfamiliar bars as I have over the
years knows that the "rules" vary greatly from one to the next. And sometimes
a new "rule" is established on the spot. You just have to adapt to get the cash
AND get out of there without a fight.
I've played in this particular tournament for months now and I know the rules
they play by. Found out several of them the hard way. For example, if you
shoot a ball to a pocket that has another ball close by you can carom off the
ball but you have to call it...either clean or off that ball. Just calling the pocket
isn't enough. AND the 8 ball HAS to be made "clean". You cannot carom it
off another ball in any circumstance. Plus on the break say you make two
small balls. The table is still open. I guess this is pretty standard but I've
played in many a barroom where you would have the little ones after the
break in this situation.
As far as the "no safety" rule it was put in play to give the not so talented
players a fighting chance. Of course a wiley player can play a safe shot
without making it obvious, so the rule actually works in favor of the better
players anyway.
I do appreciate all the comments. I've lurked on this site for many years
and never really joined in any discussions and it was nice to see so many
people chime in.
All I know to do now is try and contact Tyrone and admit that I was
most definitely in the wrong and offer a sincere apology.
Personally, no, you should absolutely not apologize to this guy, regardless of you realizing you were in wrong to get involved, unless you'd just like to be the bigger man to reach out to resolve things between you two to reduce unnecessary stress. Regardless of what you did, he was the one out of line for making a big deal out of your cousin forgetting to call the obvious 8-ball shot, particularly if your cousin was not a regular who had played in this tournament numerous times before to know the rules.
lowgear, here's the rule from BCA league rules. What's interesting is that if a player gets help like "don't forget to call the 8," even unsolicited, from someone "associated" with the player, it is a foul on the player. So if you help your cousin it's a foul on your cousin. If the player doesn't know the person who shouted, then it's not a foul and the person is given a warning.
It's kind of a weird rule really. Say you're at the table thinking about your shot and your friend yells "play a safety." That's a foul on you, the player, even if you were already going to play a safety. It seems like someone could sabotage you easily by just shouting some advice.
It's kind of a weird rule really. Say you're at the table thinking about your shot and your friend yells "play a safety." That's a foul on you, the player, even if you were already going to play a safety. It seems like someone could sabotage you easily by just shouting some advice.
Our local VNEA league has rules for marking the last pocket, not just calling it, along with "no coaching" rules and several other interesting twists that eventually drove me to give it up.
One of my favorites was calling a safe incorrectly while pocketing the object ball. So if I planned to pocket my ball and said out loud, "Just a shot", it is then a foul if I don't shoot again because I didn't use the, "correct wording." Sometimes the word, "safe", also earns you the standard, "dirty pool" label (among other colorful variations). I generally advise people to just a call a random pocket instead of ever saying, "safe".
I have seen a match come to blows over moving a ball-in-hand cueball with the ferrule of the shaft. Apparently using the shaft itself is fine, but "never" the ferrule.
One of my favorites was calling a safe incorrectly while pocketing the object ball. So if I planned to pocket my ball and said out loud, "Just a shot", it is then a foul if I don't shoot again because I didn't use the, "correct wording." Sometimes the word, "safe", also earns you the standard, "dirty pool" label (among other colorful variations). I generally advise people to just a call a random pocket instead of ever saying, "safe".
I have seen a match come to blows over moving a ball-in-hand cueball with the ferrule of the shaft. Apparently using the shaft itself is fine, but "never" the ferrule.
Last edited:
Matt...I've been the same way as you, for decades. Instructors are expected to know the "rules", and are often called on to judge a shot or make a ruling, in a league or tournament situation. The basic rules state that obvious shots need not be called. However, they make an exception for the 8-ball, in many cases, requiring a pocket "marker" to assign the intended pocket for the 8-ball. Sometimes things can get out of hand.
Here's a true story:
In Montana the VNEA has been the dominant sanctioned league for decades. In the mid-90's one of my students was playing in the finals of the 8-ball singles division, in Las Vegas at the Riviera, against a Canadian player. All matches used a specific coaster for marking the pocket for the 8. Even if it was a foot from the pocket and straight in, if you forgot to move the marker, you would lose. The rules also stated that nobody could remind the player. I've seen many matches lost because they forgot to mark the pocket. In this story, my student was playing the case game, running out for the championship. He moved the marker, pointed at the pocket and made the winning shot. His opponent called a foul, indicating that the pocket marker coaster was covering the diamond closest to the pocket. The rules specifically said that the marker had to be on the rail, between the diamond and the pocket. As a result, the shot was declared illegal, respotted, and the opponent from Canada shot it in for the win.
My student was furious, but there was nothing that could be done. I was standing right there watching in horror. Talk about a nit rule!
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Here's a true story:
In Montana the VNEA has been the dominant sanctioned league for decades. In the mid-90's one of my students was playing in the finals of the 8-ball singles division, in Las Vegas at the Riviera, against a Canadian player. All matches used a specific coaster for marking the pocket for the 8. Even if it was a foot from the pocket and straight in, if you forgot to move the marker, you would lose. The rules also stated that nobody could remind the player. I've seen many matches lost because they forgot to mark the pocket. In this story, my student was playing the case game, running out for the championship. He moved the marker, pointed at the pocket and made the winning shot. His opponent called a foul, indicating that the pocket marker coaster was covering the diamond closest to the pocket. The rules specifically said that the marker had to be on the rail, between the diamond and the pocket. As a result, the shot was declared illegal, respotted, and the opponent from Canada shot it in for the win.
My student was furious, but there was nothing that could be done. I was standing right there watching in horror. Talk about a nit rule!Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Last edited: