Do some shafts produce more spin draw and follow

mortuarymike-nv · Jan 9, 2016

The other day I get a called from a friend who I replace his tip on his cue.

He said he cannot get draw with the sniper tip I install on his black dot meucci .

So I meet him at a bar and there was another customer there and he is saying the same thing he cannot get draw with his McDermott with a sniper tip I installed on his tip.

Both of these guys are doing good to even make it the table because of their health.

This thread isn't not a slam thread against any brand of cue.

I started off with the McDermott, I chalked it up , shot a full table draw shot first shot.
The owner jumped up and said how did you do that !

Now I am trying the black dot Meucci I scuff the tip a little chalk up and shot a draw shot.
I get about a half table of draw.

After doing about a half dozen practice draw shots making sure the black dot is pointing straight up , I noticed it took allot more focus to do draw shots then the McDermott or the cue I use that also has a solid shaft.

I could get some draw but the draw was weak in my opinion.
Personally I felt the problem was the shaft and not the tip nor the shooter.

What do you guys think ?

garczar · Jan 9, 2016

I had a BlackDot for about a week. Absolutely the deadest, numbest shaft ever,imo. Not much spin(w/stock tip) and kind of a lifeless feel to it. Currently have a OB Classic+ on a GK butt and this shaft is very close in feel to the stock shaft. Not surprised with your lack of draw with the BD.

mattb · Jan 9, 2016

Some combos just do not work

I had a black dot Meucci that I could draw a mile. Problem was the table is not a mile long. I think what I have found is that some combo cue/shaft/tips just do not work. Tell the customer to try something else if he is not happy with what you put on.

JoeyInCali · Jan 9, 2016

Shafts and butts.

deanoc · Jan 9, 2016

no doubt about it

I once had a josey sneaky pete
you could put so much draw on the cueball that it would astonish you

ask JACKPOPT here on az,Jerry Franklin was so amazed he couldn't believe it
he grabbed the cue from my hand and grinned like a kid

mortuarymike-nv · Jan 9, 2016

Tip replacement

mattb said:
I had a black dot Meucci that I could draw a mile. Problem was the table is not a mile long. I think what I have found is that some combo cue/shaft/tips just do not work. Tell the customer to try something else if he is not happy with what you put on.

The person who owns the Meucci is a good friend of mine.

His health and stroke is the major issue.
Health stroke, he almost fainted at the table and I had to help him to his truck when he felt a little better.
He couldn't of hit center bowling ball.
I have been replacing his tips for free for almost a decade .

What tip would you suggest I put on there ?

Patrick Johnson · Jan 9, 2016

I don't believe it.

What reason could there be?

pj
chgo

mortuarymike-nv · Jan 9, 2016

His tips

ShakesSea said:
To your question, I'd say there's definitely a difference in ease of draw between shafts, but I also want to point out that any time I've changed tip brand or hardness I've had to adjust my draw stroke accordingly. Your clients may just have to get used to the Sniper's tendencies and adjust to them, or decide that it's not a good match for their own tendencies.

I have been installing sniper tips on his cue for a decade.
That's all I have ever put on his cue.

ENGLISH! · Jan 9, 2016

JoeyInCali said:
Shafts and butts.

Interesting that you say "and butts".

We won't go there because I don't want any arguments with the science guys.(I have 3 years of physics education, but some of them have science degrees.)

ENGLISH! · Jan 9, 2016

Absolutely not! The only contributing factor to spin which is associated with CB deflection (or CB squirt) is the front end mass of the shaft.

Green text is often a indicator of sarcasm.

ENGLISH! · Jan 9, 2016

mortuarymike-nv said:
The person who owns the Meucci is a good friend of mine.

His health and stroke is the major issue.
Health stroke, he almost fainted at the table and I had to help him to his truck when he felt a little better.
He couldn't of hit center cue bowling ball.
I have been replacing his tips for free for almost a decade .

What tip would you suggest I put on there ?

I'm not really familiar with Sniper tips at all but if he he wants more draw for the stroke put a soft Elk Master on & see what he gets. They cost very little so it is well worth the experiment.

Also if he wants more draw from the Muecci turn the dot to the side. That too is well worth the experiment.

JB Cases · Jan 9, 2016

I once had a pair of fraternal twins. One was made for pool with a pro taper and the other was made for carom with a wood pin, slightly shorter and a carom taper.

Doing the same shot, a masse' where the cue ball is supposed to double the rail all the way down and make a ball in the corner; I could barely get the cue ball to double the rail twice with the pool cue and with the carom cue I could get it to double the rail five or six times and make the ball in the corner.

I tried a lot of other power spin shots with this pair and the result was always that the carom cue was easier to use to spin the ball.

Both cues had Le Pro tips on them.

Also, with my P2 I could make a certain power draw/bend shot that I could not make consistently with any other cue I owned. With the P2 it was easy, I don't know why.

caff3in3 · Jan 9, 2016

Predator claims more spin at high speed with the vantage compared to 314 or z shafts.

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Jimmy_Betmore · Jan 9, 2016

Assuming a good stroke is used, I agree that the shaft taper and tip have pretty much everything to do with the ability to put spin on the ball. Something to consider concerning the tips, though... I've tried various tips over the years and had a couple that delaminated (Sniper was one of them) on me. I didn't know what the problem was at first. All I knew was that I suddenly couldn't put any spin on the ball. After examining the tips it became fairly obvious what the problem was. The tips were compressing (actually the air gaps between the layers) so much that I was losing a lot power during my shots. Changed the tips and all was good. I'm not saying this is the problem. But if you haven't already, inspect the tips to make sure they're not delaminating.

And while I know everybody prefers different tips, Snipers were one of my least favorites. They just seemed mushy and lacked feedback.

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SilverCue · Jan 9, 2016

I've got 4 cues with 9 shafts.
I can do full table length draws with all but one shaft.
So far, I've tried 3 different tips and the best I can get is 1/2 table draw.
BTW, it's more euro taper than pro taper.

mortuarymike-nv · Jan 9, 2016

Cost

ENGLISH! said:
I'm not really familiar with Sniper tips at all but if he he wants more draw for the stroke put a soft Elk Master on & see what he gets. They cost very little so it is well worth the experiment.

Also if he wants more draw from the Muecci turn the dot to the side. That too is well worth the experiment.

Cost is not a issue..........

Nothing that I own would be a issue if he needed it................
He is a close friend, and donating a tip to him is not a concern.

I will contact him and start putting tips on his cue that work.

ENGLISH! · Jan 9, 2016

SilverCue said:
I've got 4 cues with 9 shafts.
I can do full table length draws with all but one shaft.
So far, I've tried 3 different tips and the best I can get is 1/2 table draw.
BTW, it's more euro taper than pro taper.

I, for the most part, have always used Europen/Conical taper shafts, except for a brief period & I went back.

I never did like the whippy vibating of the Meucci shafts wih the long 'Pro' taper.

A conical taper shaft is more stiff, generally speaking, & has less flex.

With straight draw we have no concern for & hence no thought to CB deflection or CB squirt, but...

it still happens when ever the ball is hit off center. With a low center hit the ball will squirt up but up is also in the opposite direction of gravity. The spin can not gab when the ball is in the air but it also can maintain & not lose spin due to friction with cloth.

I realize that you may already know what I'm saying here so it is for others.

There is more than one way to draw the ball.

Power through with a full follow through or pop it with a quick wrist action.

Do you use only one way? If so, you may want to give the other way a try with that shaft.

Best Wishes.

dr_dave · Jan 9, 2016

mortuarymike-nv said:
I started off with the McDermott, I chalked it up , shot a full table draw shot first shot.
The owner jumped up and said how did you do that !

Now I am trying the black dot Meucci I scuff the tip a little chalk up and shot a draw shot.
I get about a half table of draw.

After doing about a half dozen practice draw shots making sure the black dot is pointing straight up , I noticed it took allot more focus to do draw shots then the McDermott or the cue I use that also has a solid shaft.

I could get some draw but the draw was weak in my opinion.
Personally I felt the problem was the shaft and not the tip nor the shooter.

What do you guys think ?

There are many possible logical explanations for what you observed. Here are a few (number 1 being the most likely culprit):

1.) You might not have been hitting the CB as low with the Meucci. Possible reasons for this are tip shape and size effects, or stroke differences due to cue weight, balance, and mass distribution differences (especially if you are an elbow dropper).

2.) If the tip/cue combinations had very different efficiencies, you might not have been giving the CB the same amount of spin and speed for a given tip contact point on the CB.

3.) Shafts of different CB deflections produce slightly different amounts of spin for the same tip offset. For more info, see getting more spin with an LD shaft.

Next time, use a marked ball (or a stripe) to check the tip contact point on the CB after each shot. Also make sure the OB travel distance is the same for each shot (by hitting the OB into a spot on a rail instead of into a pocket) to ensure that the CB speed is the same for each shot. That will eliminate many possible misinterpretations of your observations.

Regards,
Dave

Samir_Sinanovic · Jan 9, 2016

Recently i bought Meucci cue with Black Dot,and all i have to say that im very disappointed.Very soft hiting shaft,when you need a powerful draw or follow in most of cases you get nothing of that.I been playing with it about 2 months,and i couldnt find the proper "Feel" for the cueball,and it is constantly out of position.Played with many shafts before,and BD is the worst shaft i ever tried,too soft hit,and it already warped a little bit,i read that that is the common problem with this shaft.Even my friends 70$ Players cue is better player than my Meucci.

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ENGLISH! · Jan 9, 2016

Samir_Sinanovic said:
Recently i bought Meucci cue with Black Dot,and all i have to say that im very disappointed.Very soft hiting shaft,when you need a powerful draw or follow in most of cases you get nothing of that.I been playing with it about 2 months,and i couldnt find the proper "Feel" for the cueball,and it is constantly out of position.Played with many shafts before,and BD is the worst shaft i ever tried,too soft hit,and it already warped a little bit,i read that that is the common problem with this shaft.Even my friends 70$ Players cue is better player than my Meucci.

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What Meucci Cue & what were you using before? Is it a 'Power' Piston butt?

I play one day with a power piston butt & a red dot shaft & I liked it. My player has stainless joint.

What I found was that i could let my stroke out just a bit & I sort of liked that.

Meucci's hit softer for a number of reasons & one is the joint vs a stainless joint.

Also the ferrules are softer & have flex.

I guess it is like most things there is give & take.

Just for 'kicks' try turning the shaft with the dot to the side the nest time you want to draw it.

Best Wishes.

Do some shafts produce more spin draw and follow

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