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Michael Andros
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06-24-2019, 06:27 PM

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Originally Posted by sjm View Post
What ever became of $1 on the five and $2 on the nine? Ah, those were the days.
Reminds me of something kind of related. Don Willis liked to s**t the 9 in a lot ( though, supposedly, he was actually playing them most of the time ) and once he was playing some kid for 20 a pop and the kid says "We're playing "Southern" rules": 9 goes early, you get paid and it spots up and you continue. So, the story goes, by the time the kid racks the 2nd rack, he's 23 games stuck!



oops...




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06-24-2019, 07:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Andros View Post
Reminds me of something kind of related. Don Willis liked to s**t the 9 in a lot ( though, supposedly, he was actually playing them most of the time ) and once he was playing some kid for 20 a pop and the kid says "We're playing "Southern" rules": 9 goes early, you get paid and it spots up and you continue. So, the story goes, by the time the kid racks the 2nd rack, he's 23 games stuck!



oops...
I’ve played that way....and, as SJM reminded, $ on the 5-ball also....
...money balls were spotted till made in order.


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06-24-2019, 07:28 PM

Snooker, 3-cushion, and one-hole have become much more aggressive.
...what used to be called ‘sucker shots’ are ‘must go for’ shots now.

I remember Romberg started hitting the long three railer at 1-pocket so good...
...everybody started to learn it...leaves no banks to the other pocket if hit well.
The opening shots at snooker were never attempted years ago.
3-cushion safeties are ignored a lot now.

But there was fine cloth when I was a kid also...(please note that I call it FINE...
...the slow cloth was coarse and cheap)
The Rack in Detroit had Granito on all tables that was faster than 860 Simonis.
I played at Bakers in Tampa 9-ball on a carom cloth...miracles were possible.


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06-24-2019, 07:50 PM

Quote:
All versions of the game are faster and looser due to the switch to Simonis 860 cloth. Similarly, the nappy cloth, composition balls, and less lively rails of yesteryear required a somewhat different, and more patient, approach.
I may be a little off on the dates - grew up without a TV and never owned one - but have always had the notion that TV was the original driver that sped the games up including the equipment to keep up. There was a period from the late 60's through the early 80's when there was a lot of pool on TV and tournaments paid pretty well (constant dollars, compared to today).

In return, "fast" moving games and rules made it more interesting for the audience, and fast games with simple rules were promoted (Tex express 9 ball). Slower games died - how friendly is 14.1 for TV audiences who don't know much about pool at all? It may have suspense for those in the know, but (on the surface) it lacks the steady, quick, confrontational aspects of other games.

Before that TV era, the rules were more variable and even "complicated" to give a range of gambling options as others have mentioned above. Always possible to negotiate a rule system to make or break a perceived advantage or enhance the payoff before coming to terms for the game. After TV, they were adopted to create a type of interest that would hold non-traditional viewers bred on kinetic & hyper-kinetic sports, and attract sponsors.

OTOH, Snooker has a huge viewership in some countries and is "complicated" compared to most pool games, so things could swing the other way if there was anyway to increase the fan base.

smt

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06-24-2019, 08:03 PM

Young players jump everything. They don't want to learn to kick.
  
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06-24-2019, 08:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RailBanger View Post
Young players jump everything. They don't want to learn to kick.
I’d like to see more tournaments with jump with the cue you’re playing with.


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9 Ball Fan
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06-24-2019, 08:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RailBanger View Post
Young players jump everything. They don't want to learn to kick.
I love trying to kick a ball I'm hooked on. When I succeed, I talk about how much that part of the game was appreciated in the days of old.


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06-24-2019, 08:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9 Ball Fan View Post
I love trying to kick a ball I'm hooked on. When I succeed, I talk about how much that part of the game was appreciated in the days of old.
It's the superior option in many situations, because you have more control; you can kick safe. When you jump, you're turning the cue ball loose.

Also, in the "days of old" , you'd get three-fouled in a heartbeat if your kicking game was weak. I don't think many local tournaments play three foul anymore.
  
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06-24-2019, 08:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RailBanger View Post
It's the superior option in many situations, because you have more control; you can kick safe. When you jump, you're turning the cue ball loose.

Also, in the "days of old" , you'd get three-fouled in a heartbeat if your kicking game was weak. I don't think many local tournaments play three foul anymore.

I don't mind the 3 foul rule. Let's wrap this rack up, and start the next one.


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06-25-2019, 03:19 AM

For playing the game itself- The SPEED of the tables today- much faster! You need much more control over your stroke today to control the cue ball for position- Many years ago, guys could let the cue go without possessing a great stroke and the cueball did not "fly" around the table - today you need a fluid stroke that allows the TABLE to do the work - IMO - you need more artistry today than years ago. Also, pocket size on modern competitive tables ( pocket angles & slate shelf at the pocket) are GENERALLY more challenging than 25 or more years past. So the cue ball and object ball travel much faster on modern tables and with smaller pockets- you need a greater controlled stroke to pocket balls in those smaller pockets and control the cue ball position. More so than on the tables and equipment of yesteryear. I would imagine that modrern day golf clubs and tennis rackets also require more CONTROL in golf swings and tennis strokes than the equipment of years ago. In ALL cases today- yes, the balls move faster and further more easily- so all athletes need more precision in their stroke execution to control that speed. For those growing up in the game today- it is a more natural adaptation- for old timers, I am sure that most find their "old" stroke habits need to be adjusted. Thirty years later I still struggle with mine!

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06-25-2019, 05:46 AM

The internet changed the face of the game. There used to be at least 200-250 road men constantly traversing the country looking for action. Now I doubt there are a couple of dozen. Number one it's too expensive and number two you can't sneak in on anyone. In the old days there were a lot of great players that almost no one knew what they looked like, just their name.

Nowadays, good players have to match up with other good players or give up big weight to weaker players to get any serious action. Most of the top players just stay in their own neck of the woods now and wait for something to happen. Only the very best players follow the tournaments (read that Pinoys). Everyone else is playing for scraps.

The one thing that hasn't changed is hardly anyone is making a living playing pool! It's been that way forever.


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06-25-2019, 06:04 AM

The biggest change to pool over time (I have been playing since I was 7, now 45), is there is a lot less people playing pool today in the U.S. Pro pool has nothing to do with it really. Pro pool just rode on it's back.

To a lesser extent, and of course my opinion, pool is quite boring to watch today. You could take the mics away from just about any pro tournament today (just have video) and not miss much at all. Personality. People like to watch a good personality. There is a reason Fats and Mosconi were the most watched match in pool history, and it was not Fat's pool game.

To add, Safety play has been the biggest change to the actual play. It slows the game down, and is not much fun to watch for a spectator.


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06-25-2019, 06:16 AM

Back in my day.....

You could walk into any good sized pool hall and find a ring game you could jump into.

The equipment favored better players, and knowledge was protected.

Most of us smoked, and would lay our cigarettes on the rail.

Some rooms you had to make sure the house man wasnt looking if you needed to jack up to curve the ball. If you jumped, you were tossed.

There were no computer time keepers. Mechanical ones only, and thats only if the pool hall was "big time". Lots of places kept time on little slips of paper.

Some rooms you would walk into, and face a proverbial 'murderers row', a line of guys licking their chops looking for action.

When times were slow, prop bets reigned supreme.



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06-25-2019, 07:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverCity View Post
Back in my day.....

You could walk into any good sized pool hall and find a ring game you could jump into.

The equipment favored better players, and knowledge was protected.

Most of us smoked, and would lay our cigarettes on the rail.

Some rooms you had to make sure the house man wasnt looking if you needed to jack up to curve the ball. If you jumped, you were tossed.

There were no computer time keepers. Mechanical ones only, and thats only if the pool hall was "big time". Lots of places kept time on little slips of paper.

Some rooms you would walk into, and face a proverbial 'murderers row', a line of guys licking their chops looking for action.

When times were slow, prop bets reigned supreme.


Yup I remember those days.
Geez I'm old.


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06-25-2019, 08:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
of course gear has evolved, information about the game is more accessible, etc.

but does the way players actually play the game today differ much from the way players used to play?

rules impact game play..but I'm especially curious about strategy, development of offense, defense, etc.
I talked to Ralf Soquet about this when he did a lesson in my area because I was curious about the changes and also the players.

His thoughts, like mine, was that the current players are stronger as a group than the players from his era (80s, 90s, early 2000s).

Part of that was due to a bit tougher equipment (faster cloth is easier but they tended to play on much larger pockets in many events) so they learned to pocket balls on tougher shots, and more paying attention to details like racking and breaking. There is also more technical knowledge about equipment and how to play available. There were no pool schools in Europe and Asia churning out young kids that were taught like the snooker schools do, where they do tons of drills and focus on mechanics. This lead to many good players that are just solid players, maybe not the most creative or fun to watch, but they hardly miss and play textbook position.


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