Which Instructor ? ??

Which AZB instructor would you use?

  • Randy G

    Votes: 17 20.0%
  • Geno Machino

    Votes: 5 5.9%
  • CJ Wiley

    Votes: 12 14.1%
  • Lee Brett

    Votes: 8 9.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 43 50.6%

  • Total voters
    85
  • Poll closed .

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
After your wall of text, you finally admitted that CJ calls it the TOI System. Just like the link I provided which you failed to acknowledge in your rambling discorse.

He doesn't call or market it as TOI Method. If you are going to be his shill, at least get the name right.

That is my point.

As far as it being a cookie cutter method,CJ stated with the TOI system, you hit every ball the same way, with no spin, with a TOI and a firm stroke to float the CB to the intended target.

Hitting every ball the same sure does sound cookie cutter to me.

First off, I have NEVER said that CJ never called it a system.

I also never said that he did not or does not call it or market it as a system.

Do you live in 'cloud' of a certain type of fumes?

Just because I recognize, favor, or put forth somethings does not mean that I am a "shill" for it & I do not have to call it or anything else exactly the same as CJ or any other individual.

You obviously do NOT understand CJ Wiley's version of TOI, as you continue to make incorrect & misleading statements about it & I can understand why that is.

It's the same as it was/is for others & it begins with a J.

You & others have taken words that CJ said out of context & want & do apply them literally in an out of context form as a means to distorting matters for your own motives, intentions, & agendas.

Do you or anyone else really think that CJ Wiley hits EVERY shot the exact same way? Do you think he never hits any shot with outside spin or with more inside spin so as to use the spin for position? Do you think that he was telling others to hit EVERY SHOT the exact same way?

Do you know what a goal is & what an intention is?

In trying to "defend" the cookie cutter approach by trying to throw it onto CJ, you do & have done just the opposite...
but you do not even "realeyes" that.

I'll have to stop there or I will not be obliging to one of the requests of management.
 
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Ih82luz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Other....

I took two lessons (12-14 hrs total) from Stan Shuffett. He helped my game tremendously.

In my opinion, having taken lessons, it still requires hours of practice to fully utilize and implement the knowledge an instructor shares with you.
 

Blackjack

Illuminati Blacksmack
Silver Member
I haven't read through all eight of the pages on this post but I thought I'd mention this. If its already been mentioned I apologize.

But a few years ago there was an article in one of the Billiard magazines, not sure if it was Pool & Billiard or Billiards Digest, on who the top instructors in America were. And none - not one - of those always talked about on here made the list.

Just my $.02.

r/DCP

You're right ... and for that reason, my training should be avoided like the plague.

;)
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Translation: Please be nice to me.

Translation:

'I hate ENGLISH!/Rick because he has a disagreement with my 'pool god' & I can not see how anyone is sincere, honest, & does not hold grudges, & gives credit where credit is due...

unlike me, DTL.

Hence, I will do everything that I can, including stalking him in an attempt to put him down at every turn even inferring that he may have had a homosexual experience with CJ Wiley & that he may be a child molester....
even though he has been faithfully & happily married for nearly 35 years & has 4 grown children, 1 Grandson, & another Grandchild on the way & regardless of the fact that he is Christian.

That's what kind of an individual, I, DTL, am all about & I will stoop down into the lowest & dirtiest of gutters of the worst lies & innuendos, just to reap a means of revenge because he has the audacity to have a disagreement with my 'pool god'.

__________________________________________________
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
My 2 cents worth, The listings you allude to were largely based on instructors that filled out and turned in survey papers and......some magazine listings put their own writers in the upper rankings.
Stan,

I agree that sometimes the magazines are influenced by who writes for them.

FYI, I've done my best to create an impartial list of top instructors. Here it is:

Reputable Pool Schools and Well-known Billiards Instructors

You are definitely on the list.

Regards,
Dave
 

stan shuffett

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Stan,

I agree that sometimes the magazines are influenced by who writes for them.

FYI, I've done my best to create an impartial list of top instructors. Here it is:

Reputable Pool Schools and Well-known Billiards Instructors

You are definitely on the list.

Regards,
Dave

Thanks, Dave! I appreciate your consideration. I just hope that you did not have to hold your nose when you pushed the ENTER KEY for me... Lol-jk

Stan Shuffett
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
LMAO. You really come back strong when someone calls you on one of your (many) disingenuous post.

I simply told you that Stan probably has more overall knowledge about pool than 99% of others........the science/physics, fundamentals, strategy in all games, position play, patterns play, equipment, etc..........oh yeah, aiming too:grin-square:. And he can play at a pro level!!

Do I view him as a God, no.

You claim to be a big family man/Christian. I wont deny that. Just make sure you lock the door when you're on the computer.

Just more proof of how low of a gutter you will dive into with innuendo.

You know nothing about my personal life by you will continue to do as you have here. You're doing what SOME individuals do when they have no intellectual ability to go elsewhere.

All it would take would be for YOU to explain EXACTLY what it is that is OBJECTIVE that takes you to an actual shot line given that their are 90 different shot angles & an extreme lack of sufficient OBJECTIVE indicators even with a defined pivot in each direction.

I have never criticized your 99% guy in any manner other than our disagreement on how his supposed system is described.

I HAVE given him a considerable amount of approving thumbs up for his posts on other topics.

When I was once intrigued by the description of the 'system', Stan & I 'conversed' in a congenial manner & he appears to be a very nice man on almost all of his you tube videos.

That changed when I saw that it is not as described & that there would be nothing forth coming that would make it as described.

But all that YOU have to do is what I said above & give a rational & logical explanation regarding the how & why it is or can be an objective aiming system.

The thing is that you can not just as Stan has not.

So... it's into the gutter you go with a vendetta against me stalking after me with the BS.

That speaks so well of you.

And you want to criticize me.
 
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stan shuffett

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just more proof of how low of a gutter you will dive into with innuendo.

You know nothing about my personal life by you will continue to do as you have here. You're doing what SOME individuals do when they have no intellectual ability to go elsewhere.

All it would take would be for YOU to explain EXACTLY what it is that is OBJECTIVE that takes you to an actual shot line given that their are 90 different shot angles & an extreme lack of sufficient OBJECTIVE indicators even with a defined pivot in each direction.

I have never criticized your 99% guy in any manner other than our disagreement on how his supposed system is described.

I HAVE given him a considerable amount of approving thumbs up for his posts on other topics.

When I was once intrigued by the description of the 'system', Stan & I 'conversed' in a congenial manner & he appears to be a very nice man on almost all of his you tube videos.

That changed when I saw that it is not as described & that there would be nothing forth coming that would make it as described.

But all that YOU have to do is what I said above & give a rational & logical explanation regarding the how & why it is or can be an objective aiming system.

The thing is that you can not just as Stan has not.

So... it's into the gutter you go with a vendetta against me stalking after me with the BS.

That speaks so well of you.

And you want to criticize me.



I will meet you within the week half-way and will give you $5000 if you can explain CENTER TO EDGE AIMING.

You explain and I will follow-up and clear up your ignorance.

If you can not explain what I know, then how in the heck can you say I can't explain CTE as objective.

I really wish you'd just STCU and leave my name out of your postings.

One thing that the moderators can be certain of, is that as long as you are around, I will never tell all here. Your view count may be of more value than what I can generate with CTE information. ( I say that with all due respect to the moderators. It is a tough job.)

Stan Shuffett
 

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Translation:

'I hate ENGLISH!/Rick because he has a disagreement with my 'pool god' & I can not see how anyone is sincere, honest, & does not hold grudges, & gives credit where credit is due...

unlike me, DTL.

Hence, I will do everything that I can, including stalking him in an attempt to put him down at every turn even inferring that he may have had a homosexual experience with CJ Wiley & that he may be a child molester....
even though he has been faithfully & happily married for nearly 35 years & has 4 grown children, 1 Grandson, & another Grandchild on the way & regardless of the fact that he is Christian.

That's what kind of an individual, I, DTL, am all about & I will stoop down into the lowest & dirtiest of gutters of the worst lies & innuendos, just to reap a means of revenge because he has the audacity to have a disagreement with my 'pool god'.

__________________________________________________

I appreciate the compliment, and took it as what you said and nothing more. I am not one to hold grudges, and do not plan on being not nice to anyone.

KMRUNOUT
 

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I will meet you within the week half-way and will give you $5000 if you can explain CENTER TO EDGE AIMING.

You explain and I will follow-up and clear up your ignorance.

If you can not explain what I know, then how in the heck can you say I can't explain CTE as objective.

I really wish you'd just STCU and leave my name out of your postings.

One thing that the moderators can be certain of, is that as long as you are around, I will never tell all here. Your view count may be of more value than what I can generate with CTE information. ( I say that with all due respect to the moderators. It is a tough job.)

Stan Shuffett

Stan, there might be a win-win here. Videotape your meeting! I think that would generate views by the thousands! You can then put English's postings to work for you. You could post your video in a thread titled "English class: CTE revealed" or something. I'm only 1/2 kidding. This could really be something on here haha.

Hey bye the way, if someone were interested in a thorough explanation of your Pro One system, is that something that could be found on a DVD you have to offer? I've always been interested in the idea. I've had a few people explain various CTE ideas to me, but I'd like to hear more. If memory serves, I may have even had a phone conversation with the late Hal Houle. In any case, if you would point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

KMRUNOUT
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thanks, Dave! I appreciate your consideration. I just hope that you did not have to hold your nose when you pushed the ENTER KEY for me... Lol-jk
Stan,

The fact that we have different approaches and sometimes have differing opinions has nothing to do with my respect for you as an instructor and player.

Regards,
Dave
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
I will meet you within the week half-way and will give you $5000 if you can explain CENTER TO EDGE AIMING.

You explain and I will follow-up and clear up your ignorance.

If you can not explain what I know, then how in the heck can you say I can't explain CTE as objective.

I really wish you'd just STCU and leave my name out of your postings.

One thing that the moderators can be certain of, is that as long as you are around, I will never tell all here. Your view count may be of more value than what I can generate with CTE information. ( I say that with all due respect to the moderators. It is a tough job.)

Stan Shuffett

Sir,

I have said before that anyone that has not even seen a pool table or held a pool cue, with only a small brief explanation, can make the determination regarding the question of objective or not.

One does not need to know the intricacies of it or have any experience with it.

The disagreement is of an intellectual nature & hence can only be resolved through intelligent, rational, logical, critical thinking followed by an explanation of such.

For those that are not of a logical rational critical thinking inclination, they might settle for less.

That does not make them correct to do so.

With Regards & Best Wishes for You & Yours.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
I appreciate the compliment, and took it as what you said and nothing more. I am not one to hold grudges, and do not plan on being not nice to anyone.

KMRUNOUT

Thank You. I appreciate that.

Best Wishes for You & Yours.
Rick
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Stan,

The fact that we have different approaches and sometimes have differing opinions has nothing to do with my respect for you as an instructor and player.

Regards,
Dave

-----------------:thumbup2:-------------- Ditto.
 
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stan shuffett

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Stan, there might be a win-win here. Videotape your meeting! I think that would generate views by the thousands! You can then put English's postings to work for you. You could post your video in a thread titled "English class: CTE revealed" or something. I'm only 1/2 kidding. This could really be something on here haha.

Hey bye the way, if someone were interested in a thorough explanation of your Pro One system, is that something that could be found on a DVD you have to offer? I've always been interested in the idea. I've had a few people explain various CTE ideas to me, but I'd like to hear more. If memory serves, I may have even had a phone conversation with the late Hal Houle. In any case, if you would point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

KMRUNOUT

Once my book release occurs, there will one open invitation per each month for one year, free of charge-thorough explanation clinics for the public.

I appreciate your thoughts!

Stan Shuffett
 
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John Brumback

New member
Silver Member
I've taken a lesson or lessons from the following people that I can remember. Here is what my experience was: (In roughly chronological order)

Ron Tocci: old school straight pool player from Nashua, NH. High run over 150. Basically taught right out of Phil Cappelle's books. However, added his own extremely helpful imagery for a variety of things like keeping my hand straight, how the hit should feel, strategic decisions in 8 and 9 ball. I probably took about 6 1-2 hr private lessons with him around the time that I was an APA 5. I found it extremely helpful.

Earl Strickland: Spent about 2 hours alone with him. I specifically asked to go over kicking and safeties. He spent about 1/2 hour having me do a few shots to see how I shoot and how I can spin the ball. Then we did exactly what I wanted...went over kicking and safes. For about an hour after, he would play safe and I would have to kick, then I would play safe and he would have to kick. All the while he was advising me. I would say overall this was one of the better lessons I've had.

Randy Goetlicher: This was a group thing with another PBIA instructor. Randy was sort of the guest instructor. However, I VERY much liked Randy's style. He did not try to force any particular methods on me. He offered very insightful critique. I really liked his approach. I would absolutely love to take a 1 on 1 lesson with him. I can tell it would be great.

Scott Lee: I spent a good 4 hours or so with Scott 1 on 1. He provided video analysis of my stroke. We went over a bunch of stuff. He helped me pick out a few critical areas to focus on. We really drilled on those areas. We went over some strategies and game situations. I specifically mentioned that I didn't at that time want to deal with "pinning the elbow", that I already had a pretty developed stroke in which I drop my elbow. He was fine with that and we moved on to other things. He told me what he thinks, and that making that change might help me, but he didn't beat on the issue. Instead, we focused on other areas that needed work. Overall this was one of the best pool lessons I've ever had. Scott was a good listener, and a good communicator. The very next day I went and won a big 8 ball tourney that more than paid for my lesson!

Pool School in Florida, which involved 4 hours with each of the following instructors in groups of 5 people:
Francisco Bustamante: totally loved him. His english wasn't great, but he was amazingly adept at communicating the physical feelings of shots. We worked on the break, and a variety of things. The number one thing I took from him was the ability to use my grip hand to do things to my stroke. The way to manipulate the grip to produce power, or reduce power. Amazingly useful for the break and stroke shots. He was great.

Efren Reyes: Efren was also awesome. He talked about some great strategic principles. Like how to maximize your odds playing position, how to choose which side of the ball to play on, and how to do a whole bunch of awesome specialty shots. We watched in awe as he kicked 3 rails behind a ball, kicked the ball out and just stuck the cuball up against the back of the interfering ball...and again. And again. And about 10 times in a row. It was insane. Very good info, amazing experience. He said I did a really good kill shot haha.

Thorsten Hohmann: To be fair, Thorsten was sick as a dog this weekend. He was a total trooper though, and powered through the classes. He focused on training. He talked about various drills and how to build a strong game through repetition and precision. It was a perfect counterpart to someone like Bustamante, who was much more feel oriented. I would love to take a one on one lesson with Thorsten.

Tony Robles: Tony was a very good communicator. We went over a variety of things, and talked as a group through some runouts. I think I would like to spend one on one time with him too.

(So those were the 4 guys at the pool school)

Other lessons:

Joe Tucker: I've known Joe for 15 years. He is a great guy, a very intelligent guy, and LOVES pool. Joe has a bit of a different approach to the game. One thing that really sold me on him was he put out a short video many years ago talking about english. He pointed out how conventional instructors advocated staying close to the vertical axis of the cue ball and later in your pool life venturing out into the english zone. Joe believes this is fundamentally wrong. He recognizes the reality that pro players use english on almost every shot. Joe's attitude is that when you are new to the game, you really don't know what is hard or easy, so that is the time to immediately acquaint yourself with english and how it works. His idea is that if you learn it from the get go, you will be able to use that childlike automatic intuition to learn it more easily, and I totally agree. So I spent time with Joe shooting balls in with loads of english, and learning strategies of how to aim effectively. Also, we went over all kinds of position shots, using english off the rail, etc. It was great. When I teach people how to play pool, my style is probably closest to Joe's, in that we seem to both see the role of the instructor as a *collaborator*. We work together to get to the place we are trying to get to. Joe is very open to the individual nuances that define us as people and players, and rather than fight against this, he helps the student integrate new techniques into their existing style, and preserves the uniqueness of each person's game. I love Joe's approach. It is a downright sin that I have this guy like 70 miles from my house and haven't taken more lessons with him.

Earl Strickland: Yeah, I said Earl twice. This is because much more recently, a close friend of mine and I took about 6 hours of lessons from Earl. I must say, this was probably the best lessons I've *ever* had. Earl is an amazingly attentive instructor. He paid attention to the tiniest details of all parts of our mechanics. He was incredibly picky about our bridges. He is totally nuts about the bridge, and thinks it is one of the most important things. He gave us both some fundamental instruction (bridge, arm placement, stance, stroke delivery). He also walked us through runouts. He would sometimes place balls for a 9 ball run out. He put the balls in such a way that the run would feature a variety of important position shots. What I found very impressive is that there is a pretty considerable gap in ability between me and my friend. At this time, I was an A player and she was a C player. Yet oddly you couldn't even tell, because Earl somehow made that difference vanish. We both seemed to get what we individually needed at each step of the way seemlessly. Earl paid such careful attention to everything we did. It really made us feel like he was making a serious investment in us...that how well we did *mattered* to him. Earl *really* knows his S#@T when it comes to pool. His hourly rate was extremely reasonable...no more than any of the other top instructors. And I mean...its Earl!! Multi time world champion, one of the greatest players ever Earl. You can't beat that. I would recommend without hesitation to take lessons with Earl. He was extremely helpful. I will be going back for sure!!

Anyway, sorry if I forgot anyone. Hope this list is helpful to anyone considering any of these individuals.

KMRUNOUT

I've never talked with Joe about teachings ( he did buy my dvd tho):D but that is the same thoughts that I have always had. Yea,lets teach them how not to play good so when they come back years later after they get all them bad habits grooved real good and then maybe we can try to fix all them bad habits. What a grand idea!! :rolleyes::rolleyes:Me and Joe have our work cut out for us I guess. What do they call that?? job security or making work? Unreal some of the crap that's been put out there:rolleyes::rolleyes:. John B.
 

SmoothStroke

Swim for the win.
Silver Member
Rick...Your "dumbass" quotient is showing. Randy Goettlicher was the FIRST Master Instructor. Fran came long after.

There are different levels of certified instructors because more knowledge equates to higher level instruction (most of the time). Sadly there are a few Master Instructors who cannot play and cannot teach well...certainly none of the instructors Randy or I have certified fall into this catagory.

Smoothstroke learned what he knows from Randyg. That should tell you something...:rolleyes:

Once again, you show that you have a closed mind, and cannot nor will not open it even a little, so that you might be able to learn somthing new. BTW, good job hogging the thread. You've got 40 out of 99 posts in this thread! Egads!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I have never met or spoken with Mr. Goettlicher about pool. I wouldn't mind sitting down over lunch or dinner and talking pool and instructing styles with him one day.

We all have a common bond and love for a game that is extremely difficult and cult like. At times passion can get the best of us. It's important to remember what brings people together on a pool forum to interact with each other.
Passion for this game can make your head spin and foam at the mouth. Be nice to each other, you get more with honey than you do with Vinegar.
There is always the ignore feature which works very well.

I was very fortunate to learn from the gentlemen below. I have studied endlessly every style, stroke technique, mathematical systems, aiming, track lines, etc etc etc. and you can name it until the cows come home.
I have slept under pool tables, played countless hours and lost plenty of money learning.
I am proud to say I can do anything with my cue ball whenever I want. To me that is the ultimate goal.
I have my own style and a different approach and it's very effective.

Best of luck to all and hit them straight.
Sincerely:SS

Pete Margo
Steve Mizerak
Sailor Bill Barge
Jack Colavita,
Cicero Murphy
Johnny Ervolino
Jimmy Wellington
Danny Gartner
Sang Lee
Dick Jaspers
Sonny Cho
Raymond Ceulemans
Henry Dozier
Benny Mcnevich
Jerry Beans,
Jimmy Esposito
Ernie Costa
And others not mentioned, I feel like I am thanking the Academy and left out names, too much typing for me, I can be found in the Cue Gallery gawking at cues.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
I have never met or spoken with Mr. Goettlicher about pool. I wouldn't mind sitting down over lunch or dinner and talking pool and instructing styles with him one day.

We all have a common bond and love for a game that is extremely difficult and cult like. At times passion can get the best of us. It's important to remember what brings people together on a pool forum to interact with each other.
Passion for this game can make your head spin and foam at the mouth. Be nice to each other, you get more with honey than you do with Vinegar.
There is always the ignore feature which works very well.

I was very fortunate to learn from the gentlemen below. I have studied endlessly every style, stroke technique, mathematical systems, aiming, track lines, etc etc etc. and you can name it until the cows come home.
I have slept under pool tables, played countless hours and lost plenty of money learning.
I am proud to say I can do anything with my cue ball whenever I want. To me that is the ultimate goal.
I have my own style and a different approach and it's very effective.

Best of luck to all and hit them straight.
Sincerely:SS

Pete Margo
Steve Mizerak
Sailor Bill Barge
Jack Colavita,
Cicero Murphy
Johnny Ervolino
Jimmy Wellington
Danny Gartner
Sang Lee
Dick Jaspers
Sonny Cho
Raymond Ceulemans
Henry Dozier
Benny Mcnevich
Jerry Beans,
Jimmy Esposito
Ernie Costa
And others not mentioned, I feel like I am thanking the Academy and left out names, too much typing for me, I can be found in the Cue Gallery gawking at cues.

Thank You for making that crystal clear.

All the Best for You & Yours,
Rick
 
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