Which game is easier on a BB? Decider stats

Diamond69

Diamond69

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At Large posted the Pool-Trax data from the Decider between SVB and Earl that just happened. I'm interested in forum members perception on ease of game on BB. I always thought B&R's on a BB were easiest in 9 ball, then 8 ball, and finally 10 ball.

Based on the B&R percentages below, it appears 8 ball is the easiest rack to run on a BB by far. Sure, you have multiple choices in 8 ball, but always felt the congestion of a BB lowered the % of B&R.

Do the numbers below confirm your beliefs? Or change them? Interestingly, the stats bore out the same by both players. So it's pretty significant statistically.


9-Ball (won by Shane 30-20)
- Shane had 9 B&R games in 29 breaks, for 31%. He had one 2-pack and 7 singles.
- Earl had 5 B&R games in 21 breaks, for 24%. His 5 B&R's were all singles.
- Both players combined: 14 in 50 breaks = 28%.

8-Ball (won by Shane 30-22)
- Shane had 16 B&R games in 30 breaks, for 53%. He had one 8-pack (to end the match), one 2-pack, and 6 singles.
- Earl had 8 B&R games in 22 breaks, for 36%. He had one 4-pack, one 2-pack, and two singles.
- Both players combined: 24 in 52 breaks = 46%.

10-Ball (won by Shane 30-27)
- Shane had 8 B&R games in 30 breaks, for 27%. He had one 2-pack and 6 singles.
- Earl had 6 B&R games in 27 breaks, for 22%. He had one 2-pack and 4 singles.
- Both players combined: 14 in 57 breaks = 25%

All 3 Games Combined (90-69 Shane)
- Shane had 33 B&R games in 89 breaks, for 37%.
- Earl had 19 B&R games in 70 breaks, for 27%.
- Both players combined: 52 in 159 games = 33%.
 
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westcoast

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In those last 8 racks of 8 ball, Shane made it look like a total joke. He ran 8 racks in what seemed like 10 minutes!

Now I see why pros should not be playing 8 ball or on a bar box in general- they make it look way too easy. I'm starting to agree with Earl's opinion that true championship pool should be played on a 10 footer- either 9 ball or 10 ball. 8 ball in general on any table is too easy for them. Would probably have to be played on a 12 footer to make it a challenge! It is amazing how good these top pros truly are
 
KoolKat9Lives

KoolKat9Lives

Taught 'em all I know
Silver Member
A BB has its place IMO. But we separate the boys from the men, on a big boy table. However, seeing them duke it out on a BB was pretty darn cool. We don't get to see that very often.
 
Needing weight

Needing weight

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
9 ball is easier on a bar box than 8 ball

10 ball is 2nd easiest

Then 8 ball. 8 ball is harder due the congestion.
 
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Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Diamond69 said:
At Large posted the Pool-Trax data from the Decider between SVB and Earl that just happened. I'm interested in forum members perception on ease of game on BB. I always thought B&R's on a BB were easiest in 9 ball, then 8 ball, and finally 10 ball.

Based on the B&R percentages below, it appears 8 ball is the easiest rack to run on a BB by far. Sure, you have multiple choices in 8 ball, but always felt the congestion of a BB lowered the % of B&R.

Do the numbers below confirm your beliefs? Or change them? Interestingly, the stats bore out the same by both players. So it's pretty significant statistically.


9-Ball (won by Shane 30-20)
- Shane had 9 B&R games in 29 breaks, for 31%. He had one 2-pack and 7 singles.
- Earl had 5 B&R games in 21 breaks, for 24%. His 5 B&R's were all singles.
- Both players combined: 14 in 50 breaks = 28%.

8-Ball (won by Shane 30-22)
- Shane had 16 B&R games in 30 breaks, for 53%. He had one 8-pack (to end the match), one 2-pack, and 6 singles.
- Earl had 8 B&R games in 22 breaks, for 36%. He had one 4-pack, one 2-pack, and two singles.
- Both players combined: 24 in 52 breaks = 46%.

10-Ball (won by Shane 30-27)
- Shane had 8 B&R games in 30 breaks, for 27%. He had one 2-pack and 6 singles.
- Earl had 6 B&R games in 27 breaks, for 22%. He had one 2-pack and 4 singles.
- Both players combined: 14 in 57 breaks = 25%

All 3 Games Combined (90-69 Shane)
- Shane had 33 B&R games in 89 breaks, for 37%.
- Earl had 19 B&R games in 70 breaks, for 27%.
- Both players combined: 52 in 159 games = 33%.
Click to expand...

How can you state that it's pretty significant statistically when it was only two guys in the sample and two different days? The first day, they were still getting used to the table, second day, they had more of a feel for it, but it was a different game also. Everyone feels that they broke very poorly the first day, far below either of their standards, or even below any shortstops standards. So, how can that be significant data??
 
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Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Needing weight said:
9 ball is easier on a bar box than 8 ball

10 ball is 2nd easiest

Then 8 ball. 8 ball is harder due the congestion.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. Depends on what you mean by easier. If you mean just playing it, yes. If you mean break and run, then 10 becomes the hardest because you have to make a ball and get shape on the lowest ball in the congestion.
 
ideologist

ideologist

I don't never exaggerate
Silver Member
Don't overlook that the 'bad' 9-ball stats were on the first day. Still warming up? :rolleyes:
 
W

westcoast

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Needing weight said:
9 ball is easier on a bar box than 8 ball

10 ball is 2nd easiest

Then 8 ball. 8 ball is harder due the congestion.
Click to expand...

8 ball is very easy for them on a bar box. Tie ups mean almost nothing for them. They just get the right position and bust out the problem area like it was nothing. I use to hold the same opinion as you until I watched top pros play 8 ball on bar table- the fact they can shoot any ball off the break and their supreme positioning skills means that there are very few problem racks. I was very impressed by their 8 ball play on Saturday
 
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westcoast

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Neil said:
Yes and no. Depends on what you mean by easier. If you mean just playing it, yes. If you mean break and run, then 10 becomes the hardest because you have to make a ball and get shape on the lowest ball in the congestion.
Click to expand...

very true- I think 10 ball is most difficult on a bar table.

It was fun seeing top pros on the bar table, but it should remain a rare occurrence. It is not challenging enough for them.
 
G

gxman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
8ball for the pros is too easy no matter the table size. The U.S open(9ft table) 8b finals between Carlos Biado and SVB, the BNR rate was easily 80% plus.

Today in the New Jersey 8b tournament9ft table), the BNR rate was easily 50% plus also. Unless its a dry break or scratch, its almost an automatic BNR.
 
6

67tbird

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
westcoast said:
In those last 8 racks of 8 ball, Shane made it look like a total joke. He ran 8 racks in what seemed like 10 minutes!

Now I see why pros should not be playing 8 ball or on a bar box in general- they make it look way too easy. I'm starting to agree with Earl's opinion that true championship pool should be played on a 10 footer- either 9 ball or 10 ball. 8 ball in general on any table is too easy for them. Would probably have to be played on a 12 footer to make it a challenge! It is amazing how good these top pros truly are
Click to expand...

Do a YouTube search for Chinese 8 Ball... that is what I feel professional 8 ball should be.
 
Diamond69

Diamond69

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Neil said:
How can you state that it's pretty significant statistically when it was only two guys in the sample and two different days? The first day, they were still getting used to the table, second day, they had more of a feel for it, but it was a different game also. Everyone feels that they broke very poorly the first day, far below either of their standards, or even below any shortstops standards. So, how can that be significant data??
Click to expand...

Statistically significant between the two players in regards to the B&R stats. For both players

8 ball had the highest B&R %
9 ball was next
10 ball was last.
 
L

lstevedus

One of the 47%
Silver Member
Were they playing "take what you make on the break" 8 ball? Just curious cause I think that cuts down on the break and runs.
 
CreeDo

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
One part of the story that the stats do not tell is how easy it is to run out after a dry break.
The only count runouts from the break, not a runout for the racker.

If we're looking at how barbox congestion + smaller distances affect your ability to run out,
it would be useful to know how many "rack'n'runs" there were. I'm guessing after a dry
break almost all the 8 ball racks were run anyway.

Congestion or not, players at this level probably get out playing 8 ball 80-90%,
and only dry breaks or unlucky scratches off the break result in the much lower figure we see in the stats.

The stats were also affected by the decision not to use a magic rack. With 9b and a magic rack,
and near 0% dry breaks, I'm sure the 9b stats would be wildly different.

In 10b the break was clearly killing both of them, it's weird to see Shane struggle with
a 10b break and keep scratching. Both of them were experimenting with different spots
with mixed results.

In short, I don't think the runout stats are all that wildly different from a 9 footer,
it's the different break results that lead to different stats.
Plus the fact that there's less area where the cue ball can weather the storm after a break...
it was ALWAYS getting kicked no matter how much they tried to park it.
Several undeserved scratches in the kitchen corners.
 
B

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
I remember watching Dennis Orcullo play a 9-ball match on a BB. It was rack-your-own with a MagicRack; he racked the balls the same way every time, soft-broke and had the exact same layout after the break...every time. He BnR seven racks in row. It was possibly the most boring one hour of pool I've ever seen.
 
Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
8-ball= very easy for 'B' and above players, but must have good break and make a ball or two.

9-ball=easy "B" players and above if they a have good break.

10-ball=the hardest of the three because of need to make a ball, have shot on the lowest ball, and more balls blocking CB paths up and down table. Johnnyt
 
A

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
CreeDo said:
One part of the story that the stats do not tell is how easy it is to run out after a dry break. ... I'm guessing after a dry break almost all the 8 ball racks were run anyway. ....
Click to expand...

For the Shane/Earl 8-Ball set, Pool-Trax information indicates that you are correct.

The set consisted of 52 games. The breaker made a ball and did not scratch in 31 of those games and then ran out in 24 of the 31. So the overall B&R percentage was 24 in 52 breaks, for 46%. but the run-out percentage from successful breaks was 24 in 31, for 77%.

The breaker did not stay at the table on 21 breaks (5 fouls and 16 dry breaks). The non-breaker won 19 of those 21 games. From the information given by Pool-Trax, it appears that the non-breaker ran out in his first inning after the break in 18 of those 19 wins. So the non-breaker's "1st-inning-run-out percentage" was 86% (18 in 21).

And if we combine the breaker's 24 of 31 run outs after successful breaks and the non-breaker's 18 of 21 run outs after unsuccessful breaks, we have the result that the player who had the first shot after the break ran out from there 42 times in 52 games, or 81%!!!!

Pretty easy game, eh?
 
RunoutJJ

RunoutJJ

Professional Banger
Silver Member
Ive said this time and again about 8 ball at a pro level. Its a joke compared to 9, 10 Ball, 14:1 and 1P. Its just too easy for a player to get out.

Don't get me wrong it can be chess like if balls are not broken up or the players miss their opportunities to run out. This happens very so often so it really doesnt become a major factor as it would for players on an amateur level. So most amateurs think 8 ball is a very tough game when they wouldn't have a prayer in any rotation game. :lol:
 
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