What's Going On With Custom Cue Prices?

knifemakermike · Mar 27, 2019

jokrswylde said:
As a former custom knife collector, this statement is partly correct. An example, AgRussell knives has a standing order for a certain number of every Randall knife that leaves their shop (I get that they are not true custom and they use a "team approach") They will then sell those knives for a hefty profit. But they will tell you, yes, you can get this knife cheaper from the maker, but you will have to wait for on their waiting list (5 years last I heard).

But a major problem with custom knives, for me at least, is that it seems every new maker, regardless of rep., experience, training, etc. several years ago started pricing basic, entry level knives at the same price point of more established makers. Something is off when a new maker whether it be by grinding, CNC, or forging, charges the same price you can get a custom Dozier or Bob Loveless.

And as I imagine is true with cues, production knives got much better. Is there a maker who can make a frame lock knife with the same precision and tolerances of a Chris Reeve production knife? Can a custom cue maker make functionally better cue than Mezz can?

When you get into cues ordered to your exact specs, then that is really a different category than many "custom cues" discussed on here.

I’m in a different market segment, where issues are different. Custom knives are a lot different than custom cues. The fit and finish of custom knives is higher without automation vs production. It’s the same with heat treating, custom makers heat treating is far superior than batch production heat treating. So yes, customs knife makers can make a far superior knife both functionally and artistically. But I’m not sure that’s the case with cues because of shaft technology. I’ve designed cf products in my real career and it’s not difficult it’s very time consuming and design knowledge is a barrier, also consistency for small custom batch, this is where production cues would have an advantage.

I’d like to keep this to cue market though. I’ve learned a lot from the responses and my conclusion is that there is a small number of collectors and dealers that control the market. Prices remain high because they don’t have to sell yet.

misterpoole · Mar 27, 2019

I got the custom cue bug between 98 and 2007. Cues custom made were from searing, tucker, gina, mottey and prewitt. Are you saying they have gone down in value?

Nostroke · Mar 27, 2019

misterpoole said:
I got the custom cue bug between 98 and 2007. Cues custom made were from searing, tucker, gina, mottey and prewitt. Are you saying they have gone down in value?

You tell us-Have you had higher offers than you paid? Some CMs are holding value FOR NOW but like bitcoin, i think the future will be sad. What goes up, must come down (except Apple, FB and Google-lol)

Z-Nole · Mar 27, 2019

JoeyInCali said:
No matter what, that brand will suffer devaluation .
A lot of these "custom" knife makers work with a crew anyway.
So, they make a lot of knives. But, then the owners get a little greedy and then contract a Chinese factory to make knives to his specs. They might even use the same parts except for maybe the blade steel.
These are steels, metals and man made plastics. Not wood.
The Chinese use the same CNC machines.
They make the same knives. All is left probably is just sharpening and polishing.
They can send those to the US makers and get them done.
They then sell the knives a lot cheaper than the US made ones.

And the US makers expect their knives to sell for the same price before ?

F'ing Chinese are still dumping steel into the US...need another section 232 for these fookers. Sick Trump on them.

pwd72s · Mar 27, 2019

MitchAlsup said:
Collectors of any area {cues, cars, boats, paintings, art, planes,...} are all subject to market forces.

All financials point to a recession on the horizon.
Expect things to soften (a lot) before they firm up.

This...throughout the investing/collecting world.

When it comes to "stuff" considered collectable?
Buy what you personally enjoy, and don't sweat the market.
If the market falls off the cliff, you still have an enjoyable object.

misterpoole · Mar 27, 2019

More

Nostroke said:
You tell us-Have you had higher offers than you paid? Some CMs are holding value FOR NOW but like bitcoin, i think the future will be sad. What goes up, must come down (except Apple, FB and Google-lol)

Yes, .... Was a rhetorical q

Calzican · Mar 27, 2019

Prices

Not just custom cues when did changing a tip start costing over $40? I've normally maintained most of my equipment myself as far as small things like tip changes but I recently went through a spell of finding a new tip. I had played with I think it's Victory that comes on the 314 for years but thought I needed a change. I went through about $150 in tips before settling on one I liked.

Type79 · Mar 27, 2019

pwd72s said:
Buy what you personally enjoy, and don't sweat the market.
If the market falls off the cliff, you still have an enjoyable object.

True words and sage advice.

Poolhall60561 · Mar 27, 2019

There will always be a market for collectible wood cues. But maybe not for playing.

S.Vaskovskyi · Mar 27, 2019

Poolhall60561 said:
There will always be a market for collectible wood cues. But maybe not for playing.

View attachment 516413

What game is more succesfull as a sport, pool or snooker? Why is it so in snooker the best players are millionaires playing with the same oldschool ash cues using 0,50$ triangle chalk and same fairly cheap leather tips ...and this year they will compete at WC for 500,000 pounds as the first prize while the best pool players with the most revolutional equipment and accessories (super-duper tips, chalks, gloves, shafts etc.) will strive for how much...40,000$? And those battles in Crucible millions of fans will watch and have fun ...is it the same with WPC 9-ball?
Ok... that is just a side note.
When it comes to the theme of this thread...I guess the players who want just to have a good playing cue to use and enjoy are not the main players on the market and there are as many other factors one is considering before the purchase.
I have my previous player for sale here https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=463039. Back in 2005 when it was ordered the price for it was something like 1800$. When I placed it for sale here I started with 1300$...and so I'd like it to be sold now I'm offering it for 900$.... But the trends in pool are so...it is easier to find a buyer for a used Revo 12.4 and sell for 700$ ...lol.

alstl · Mar 27, 2019

knifemakermike said:
Hi Guys,

I was once into collecting high-end cues (Scruggs, Josswest, Richard Black, etc) and had quite a collection before kids and marriage about 15 years ago. The market was pretty high back then but demand was good.

I started playing again about a year ago and looking for a real nice cue. It's been quite a journey with very conflicting information. Abundance of cues available from good makers and independent sellers (I would say very fair). Then there seems to be this artificially inflated prices on some higher end cues no one buys. Dealers getting mad you offer a price on a cue that has been sitting there for over a year. Prices that are completely out of sync with the market.

Are people really buying at some of these prices that are asked? I've seen people take some big hits when selling that is making me wonder who is making the money in these deals, I don't think it's the cuemakers.

Prices are out of control. Free advice - pawn shops.

JohnnyOzone · Mar 27, 2019

Nostroke said:
So why have 90% of collectibles fallen in price, some up to 80% or so, in the last 10-12 years? Not to mention, the best economic minds currently think we don't have enough inflation. We have less than 20-30% of what we had at times during the 70's/80's

Inflation during the 70s was crazy high. I would certainly hope our inflation rate would be astronomically lower than when Carter was in office and OPEC was kicking our ass

p.s.
I am certainly not the expert that some on here are, but it is my somewhat educated opinion that you get more bang for your buck with a new custom purchased from the cuemaker, than with a production cue

deanoc · Mar 27, 2019

i guess Picassos are going to come down,Rembrandts,
of course some are $50,000,000

Cues have gone way up in price in my experience

When I was a kid a Balabuschka brought $125 today the cue is $80000

When i started buying South West cues they cost $135,today $5000 to $10,000

notstraight up but certainly better and better

Gus got $3000 for his most expensive cues,now Barry gets $5000
for his plainest

Some new makers like Jake Hulsey and Larry Vigus are gaining favor too

some custom cue makers are not really collectible and probably never will be

Its hard to know why sometimes

I honestly think most of these comments are way off

Experts think inflation is a good thing ,what fools,
pure stealing when the government spends money they don't have by printing
what in effect is counterfeit money,stealing

jrctherake · Mar 27, 2019

Nostroke said:
You tell us-Have you had higher offers than you paid? Some CMs are holding value FOR NOW but like bitcoin, i think the future will be sad. What goes up, must come down (except Apple, FB and Google-lol)

Cues are like cars.

Go to Walmart, stand at door and ask all guys that were 16 years old in mis 80's, "what's your favorite Ford Mustang"???....

LOL...... You will here FOX BODY.....

Then.....ask all guys that were 16 years old around mid 70's.....lol........ you'll hear:

1965 thru 1971....models

Same with cues. Ask all players in their 50's and up....your gonna hear all the old custom names and maybe mueccie and schon.

Ask all players in their 20's.....most all are gonna say:

Predator or some other production company.....

After us older guys are gone, all the old customs worth $$$$ to us will be just another cue that dont play as well as the average $300 production cue of the day.

Nothing NOBODY can do about it.

pinkspider · Mar 27, 2019

Just to double up on pwd72s' elegant point earlier with a quote from Joe Bonamassa, guitarist extraordinaire and prominent vintage electric guitar collector known for acquiring rare vintage instruments and daring to actually play them on the road:

"(So) you have to enter into that deal knowing that one day your prized possession that you think is worth all this money could be worth nothing. And then you have to ask yourself the question: do you still love it? In my case, absolutely, I'd rather have this than anything else." –*Joe on his Mary Kay Stratocaster, from Welcome to Nerdville

skins · Mar 27, 2019

deanoc said:
i guess Picassos are going to come down,Rembrandts,
of course some are $50,000,000

Cues have gone way up in price in my experience

When I was a kid a Balabuschka brought $125 today the cue is $80000

When i started buying South West cues they cost $135,today $5000 to $10,000

notstraight up but certainly better and better

Gus got $3000 for his most expensive cues,now Barry gets $5000
for his plainest

Some new makers like Jake Hulsey and Larry Vigus are gaining favor too

some custom cue makers are not really collectible and probably never will be

Its hard to know why sometimes

I honestly think most of these comments are way off...........

Sooo many dont get it Dean. Excellence will forever be excellence. "Excellence" in ANYTHING will always command attention and should ultimately higher $. It MAY be hard to guess when the $ will come but with anything of very high quality it eventually does. Those who can recognize it, or are even interesed, will keep some sort of attention on those items as time passes.

Education is the key Dean. Some just dont know what they're looking at and need some help and info that may allow them to make a better decision for what they desire. Then there are some sharing advice that may steer some in the wrong direction either because of ignorance or personal decision protection. Add to that, there are so many "teachers" that are like politicians. Accepting "lobbyist's" to affect how they advise what IS excellence.

The good news is there are many who recognize these issues and may end up being the custodians of these gems until the next resurgence from those who also recognize and just have to own a piece or two.:smile:

Cues from Gus, George, Barry, Dennis, etc..will always bring good $, from those who recognize excellence. So will anyone else who offers the same as has been proven by other makers who have followed them.

As for the rest, If those dont, there will be factors always there and may be only learned or recognized by some, that will explain why.

jrctherake · Mar 27, 2019

skins said:
Sooo many dont get it Dean. Excellence will forever be excellence. "Excellence" in ANYTHING will always command attention and should ultimately higher $. It MAY be hard to guess when the $ will come but with anything of very high quality it eventually does. Those who can recognize it, or are even interesed, will keep some sort of attention on those items as time passes.

Education is the key Dean. Some just dont know what they're looking at and need some help and info that may allow them to make a better decision for what they desire. Then there are some sharing advice that may steer some in the wrong direction either because of ignorance or personal decision protection. Add to that, there are so many "teachers" that are like politicians. Accepting "lobbyist's" to affect how they advise what IS excellence.

The good news is there are many who recognize these issues and may end up being the custodians of these gems until the next resurgence from those who also recognize and just have to own a piece or two.:smile:

Cues from Gus, George, Barry, Dennis, etc..will always bring good $, from those who recognize excellence. So will anyone else who offers the same as has been proven by other makers who have followed them.

As for the rest, If those dont, there will be factors always there and may be only learned or recognized by some, that will explain why.

I understand where your coming from. I also understand why you feel the way you do.

It doesn't change the fact that only 1 in a 100 twentysomething year old people have ever even "heard of".....much less "show interest" in the same cues we love.

I wish it wasn't so but, it is what it is.

Why do you think that ALL the cues are being passed around in the same group of buyer/seller? I know why. We old school folks are dying off.

Again, I understand what/why......you/Dean/myself/many other feel but it doesn't matter.

skins · Mar 28, 2019

jrctherake said:
I understand where your coming from. I also understand why you feel the way you do.

It doesn't change the fact that only 1 in a 100 twentysomething year old people have ever even "heard of".....much less "show interest" in the same cues we love.

I wish it wasn't so but, it is what it is.

Why do you think that ALL the cues are being passed around in the same group of buyer/seller? I know why. We old school folks are dying off.

Again, I understand what/why......you/Dean/myself/many other feel but it doesn't matter.

I understand where you're comming from. The issue is, it DOES matter. The cues I'm talking about are NOT being passed around because those who know what they have arent offering them with exception for a few that pop up from time to time. Others try and lump their cues into this group and when they dont sell, pout and claim the market is soft. Well yeah it's soft, for their cues. There are a lot of makers that have stood in front of a lathe. Relative to that, there are few that have acheived excellence in a way that commands demand... It's those cues that'll stand the test of time as they should and be recognized as such for generations by those who know the difference.

jrctherake · Mar 28, 2019

skins said:
I understand where you're comming from. The issue is, it DOES matter. The cues I'm talking about are NOT being passed around because those who know what they have arent offering them with exception for a few that pop up from time to time. Others try and lump their cues into this group and when they dont sell, pout and claim the market is soft. Well yeah it's soft, for their cues. There are a lot of makers that have stood in front of a lathe. Relative to that, there are few that have acheived excellence in a way that commands demand... It's those cues that'll stand the test of time as they should and be recognized as such for generations by those who know the difference.

We can only hope so.

My brother collected all sorts of Fords that ranged from 1950's to 1970.

At one time his collection was worth a TON of money.

He had several R code, J code and Q code mustang's ... just to name a few that were #1 cars that went for ~$150 to $200k each.

He got each and every car back in the day when a collector could buy them for 10 to 20k and then held on to them..... had a bunch of chances to make a killing on them but believed that their value would always be stable and even climb.

Well, today, he is literally "stuck" with a warehouse full of cars that he can't even recoup his "storage cost" on.

NOBODY......EVER thought that a fox body mustang would be more sought after than a J code with a drag pack from factory but, guess what?,.... they are. You know why? I do. The buyer's today don't give a rat's a55 about anything before ~1985ish..... hell of a note ain't it? Oh sure, there are a "few" older folks that are still interested....lol....but, guess what? They want to low ball him as well and say "they just ain't bringing that anymore". You know what? Their correct. I am too... its coming.

Cues are headed that way. And yes, even the biggest names in cues will go down.

Again, I'm like you and many others on AZB.....it turns my stomach to know that young players in rooms have no clue as to what true beauty is when it comes to cues....lol...but will water at the mouth over a revo.....

Just wait, it's coming. People just think custom cues have fallen. Much harder times are coming for old cues....regardless of maker or price given back when.

pinkspider · Mar 28, 2019

jrctherake said:
We can only hope so.

My brother collected all sorts of Fords that ranged from 1950's to 1970.

At one time his collection was worth a TON of money.

He had several R code, J code and Q code mustang's ... just to name a few that were #1 cars that went for ~$150 to $200k each.

He got each and every car back in the day when a collector could buy them for 10 to 20k and then held on to them..... had a bunch of chances to make a killing on them but believed that their value would always be stable and even climb.

Well, today, he is literally "stuck" with a warehouse full of cars that he can't even recoup his "storage cost" on.

NOBODY......EVER thought that a fox body mustang would be more sought after than a J code with a drag pack from factory but, guess what?,.... they are. You know why? I do. The buyer's today don't give a rat's a55 about anything before ~1985ish..... hell of a note ain't it? Oh sure, there are a "few" older folks that are still interested....lol....but, guess what? They want to low ball him as well and say "they just ain't bringing that anymore". You know what? Their correct. I am too... its coming.

Cues are headed that way. And yes, even the biggest names in cues will go down.

Again, I'm like you and many others on AZB.....it turns my stomach to know that young players in rooms have no clue as to what true beauty is when it comes to cues....lol...but will water at the mouth over a revo.....

Just wait, it's coming. People just think custom cues have fallen. Much harder times are coming for old cues....regardless of maker or price given back when.

Yup if nothing is done now to turn people on to custom cues, it's going to go the way of the dodo. relegated to fancy handmedowns

What's Going On With Custom Cue Prices?

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