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05-13-2016, 01:43 AM

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Originally Posted by M.G. View Post
To you Americans maybe - we Europeans don't like this kind of "entertainment" at all.

We think it's appalling and embarrasing and we get "douche chills" for him.

You can and should have emotions, but don't go blasting around.



I'd thrown him out with his 3rd hissy fit.







Of course. But you'll see a lot of them writing "he needs to stop" or "back in the day".

Or simply see a very good doctor.



All true. He WAS until 2000 or so.



Cheers,

M


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05-13-2016, 04:06 AM

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Originally Posted by (((Satori))) View Post
I don't know much about snooker. If snooker fans stand or sit and watch a match for 5 or more hours straight then they are lunatics imo. Just kidding of course but I will say that from what I have seen of snooker they have some great promoters behind them. Lots of media connections with professionally produced shows and entertainment to keep fans excited and entertained well beyond when some event ends and before the next one begins. Tell me because I don't know... would Earl be a superstar if he were a snooker player getting that kind of media coverage? Had he not already made his mark on Europe through his Mosconi Cup appearances, and had he been born and raised a snooker star I would have to think he would be in the news damn near daily with tons of fans that love him and a ton also who don't, and they would be talking all about it. I would imagine the media and the promoters would love the attention he just naturally brings though.

As to your point about a 32 man round robin... I have said before that shorter events that tie together are much better than one off events. Leave the audience wanting more. You said Caras/Mosconi covered 10 cities? That is much better than trying to fit their event into one city, playing hours at a time ____ days in a row, with the same limited number of fans in that city as your target market.


Shorter events, better advertisement, let the fans have fun at the events, leave the fans wanting more at the end of the day, the days event shouldn't be monotonous either... same two players playing race to nine 10 ball for hours and hours. The Mosconi cup is the best event pool has and it has been for a while.
The finals of the World Snooker tournament was a race to 18. It took approximately 14 hours to finish over a course of 2 days. The venue was packed and I believe they had over 300M viewers (mostly from China). Still, not bad for a game with a bunch of "robots"

The problem isn't Earl, it's not the gambling background of the game. The problem is the game. Pool is the problem. What the hell is pool? Ask someone on the street, and you'll get a variety of answers depending on who you ask. The even bigger problem is that all of the games we associate with pool are boring as hell to watch for a casual spectator. Not to mention there is no consistency when it comes to equipment. One tournament you're on 9' tables and the next you're on 7' tables.

Aramith makes a set of snooker balls for regulation pool tables. Why not make it the game over here? A lot of people have suggested playing on 10' tables, but that's not very cost effective. At least not as cost effective as simply purchasing ball sets. It's easy to follow and much more exciting due to you really never know who's going to win until the frame ball is made. So many times I saw a player up 60-0, only to miss the frame ball, and then lose the frame. The majority of the time in 8 and 9 ball you know if the player coming to the table with an open shot is going to win or not. There's rarely ever any back and forth unless you're playing one pocket, but good luck trying to keep the fans interested in watching that game. Even hardcore one pocket players won't watch that snooze fest.

/rambling
  
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05-13-2016, 04:15 AM

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Originally Posted by BeiberLvr View Post
The finals of the World Snooker tournament was a race to 18. It took approximately 14 hours to finish over a course of 2 days. The venue was packed and I believe they had over 300M viewers (mostly from China). Still, not bad for a game with a bunch of "robots"



The problem isn't Earl, it's not the gambling background of the game. The problem is the game. Pool is the problem. What the hell is pool? Ask someone on the street, and you'll get a variety of answers depending on who you ask. The even bigger problem is that all of the games we associate with pool are boring as hell to watch for a casual spectator. Not to mention there is no consistency when it comes to equipment. One tournament you're on 9' tables and the next you're on 7' tables.



Aramith makes a set of snooker balls for regulation pool tables. Why not make it the game over here? A lot of people have suggested playing on 10' tables, but that's not very cost effective. At least not as cost effective as simply purchasing ball sets. It's easy to follow and much more exciting due to you really never know who's going to win until the frame ball is made. So many times I saw a player up 60-0, only to miss the frame ball, and then lose the frame. The majority of the time in 8 and 9 ball you know if the player coming to the table with an open shot is going to win or not. There's rarely ever any back and forth unless you're playing one pocket, but good luck trying to keep the fans interested in watching that game. Even hardcore one pocket players won't watch that snooze fest.



/rambling


So, pool is boring & snooker is exciting?


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05-13-2016, 04:39 AM

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Originally Posted by Bank it View Post
So, pool is boring & snooker is exciting?
Numbers don't lie.
  
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05-13-2016, 04:46 AM

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Originally Posted by BeiberLvr View Post
Numbers don't lie.


I think you might be hard pressed to get 1/10 of those numbers for anybody watching here if you can convince anyone to even play. It makes watching paint dry seem exciting


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05-13-2016, 05:02 AM

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Originally Posted by Bank it View Post
I think you might be hard pressed to get 1/10 of those numbers for anybody watching here if you can convince anyone to even play. It makes watching paint dry seem exciting
I think there are many part to the problem/solution, but firstly its important to understand why those viewing figures were so high this year...Ding got to the final, lets not forget tha'ts the first time a Chinese player has ever managed that! I'd imagine thats possibly 295 out of your 300 million (not exactly sure but I'd guess given the population of the UK is only around 60 mil, even 5mil would be a good result)!

I may exaggerate slightly, but you get the idea, as does Barry Hearn, hence the constantly increasing numbers of tournaments and promotions over in China, there's no reason pool couldn't do the same (in theory)!

The problem with pool is that you have so many disciplines, English Pool, Chinese Pool, American Pool and within those different games different rules too. Snooker is standardised (pretty much, I know some new tournaments such as the shootout are different), which makes it much easier for the viewer.

The other problem is that a snooker table is tough to play on, anyone (over here at least) can go into a club and feel they have an idea of what the pro's play on (of course pro tables are even tougher in reality, but club tables are still hard enough that very few even make 30 breaks on a regular basis).

Now people on here of course realise that a pro pool table is also tough and that due to the fact your opponent is likely to clear up if you miss, the game is still difficult, but to the standard viewer (especially in the UK who has maybe played 8 ball with UK rules on a US table with 5 inch pockets) it just seems too easy.

You also need a flagship event, the snooker world championships are by far the most watched out of all the snooker tournaments, I'm not sure of the figures, but in the UK alone I'd guess probably 5x as many people watch the WC to any other events (possibly with the exception of the Masters).

Personally I feel that for US pool (as in the game, not pool in America specifically) to grow, the world championships need to be back on mainstream networks in the UK and US. When they were in Cardiff it looked to be going the right way and even casual fans knew the names of Earl, Efren etc. now ask anyone in a pool hall who the current world champion is (you'd either get a blank look or someone asking which discipline of the many available, if they were a hardcore fan)!

My view (as is generally the case) is to trust those in the know, I'm sure there is a reason why Barry Hearn has only ever backed 9-Ball events, its good TV. Non call shot 9-Ball is fast and exciting, short races are (probably) hated by the players and hardcore fans, but great TV for a wider audience. So personally, even though there are many great games within pool I think for the sport to grow globally everyone needs to promote 9-Ball and somehow get the WC back on TV!

If it gets on mainstream channels such as the BBC here in the UK then the educational process starts (as with snooker where they show the viewer the pockets are tighter than club tables etc.) and that generates interest!

Oh and I just remembered this thread was originally about Earl!

Higgins (Alex and John), Ronnie and Stephen Lee are 3 examples that have all been fined (or worse) for various offences, that said, especially in Ronnie's case, I suspect in the time it takes him to write the cheque he's earnt more than he's paying out ;-)

But the point is they were all disciplined, Alex even attacked an official lets not forget, Earl didn't quite do that and he did buy flowers afterwards!

But in short the game does need characters, I bet he's one of the few players that more than a handful of UK casual viewers would recognise (I'm not excusing his behaviour btw, merely saying that it probably does increase viewers).

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05-13-2016, 05:22 AM

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Originally Posted by ENGLISH! View Post
Actually she does act very much like a doucher sometimes & that is what gets to them... but knowing what I learned they now have a better understanding. Besides a very hard life, some of which they knew, she is also bipolar & getting meds to work right at the right times is a challenge unto itself & the hard life makes matters worse. I may as well say that it was rape by a step 'father' & multiple suicide attempts of which they did not know.

Only Earl knows Earl & maybe a doctor... or two.
That is a terrible set of circumstances to say the least. I am not going to assume anything about earls situation aside from pool. The fact remains that he has an attitude that jibes with none else but himself. I've seen matches where he starts his antics on the very first shot of the match. there wasn't even enough time for anybody to make him angry. If it's just a tactic to mentally align himself, then shame on him. If it's a true condition of some kind, the best of luck to him in finding a way to manage it, because what he is doing thus far is not working.

He is a phenomenal player. I tried to sit through a couple of matches last night and just couldn't do it. I can watch alot of other world class pool and not see even a hint of what earl shows on a regular basis. There is a point where talent stops making up for your shortcomings as a person.
  
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05-13-2016, 05:24 AM

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Originally Posted by (((satori))) View Post
yep i'm serious. The nba wouldn't even be able to keep a crowd for a game that lasted hours on end for several days. What was it, like 5 hrs a day, 3 days in a row? The nba playoffs don't put on games for 5 hrs a day and they even have way more entertainment to keep a live crowd happy. And did i mention that the fans are allowed to have way more fun when they attend an nba game? Yes, i'm serious. Earl is not the problem. Expecting lots of fans to watch the match for 5 hrs (maybe more) a night is the problem.

Btw, if im not mistaken you stayed for all of the earl match too right?

#hardcorefan
this ain't basket ball it's pool.
If your a fan of pool & want to watch a match, you watch the match.
I can't figure out how many subjects you want to tackle in one conversation.
Of course i watched the entire darren / earl match.
I like to play pool & love to watch great pool.
I just wish that earl wouldn't turn into a three year old baby & whine for the majority of the match, but even though he always does, i will still watch for the great pool that is played.

Have you ever attended a stand alone match??

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05-13-2016, 05:54 AM

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Originally Posted by SLIM View Post
this ain't basket ball it's pool.
If your a fan of pool & want to watch a match, you watch the match.
I can't figure out how many subjects you want to tackle in one conversation.
Of course i watched the entire darren / earl match.
I like to play pool & love to watch great pool.
I just wish that earl wouldn't turn into a three year old baby & whine for the majority of the match, but even though he always does, i will still watch for the great pool that is played.

Have you ever attended a stand alone match??

Slim
Yes I have witnessed several marathon matches. Not necessarily promoted events trying to draw a crowd but action.

I was pointing out the fact that you watched the complete Earl because it shows that you are a hardcore fan of pool. Few are like you imo. You blame Earl for the fans dwindling, ok, fair enough, if that's what you saw then that is what you saw. I'm just not sure that your dislike for the man didn't effect your perception of how things went down. If Shane and Darren were the ones in that event the crowd would have thinned just the same I bet. Few want to watch two people play 10 ball over and over for hours and hours like you do. I was at a local match that was marketed beforehand. They wanted everyone to show up for this match where $10000 was bet, a 10 ahead set of 9-ball, 10 hour sessions, it took 3 days, and the road players backer had over $30 k bet with the rail. Everyone who was anyone in the pool world who was in town was there to watch the match when it kicked off. It didn't take long for that crowd to dwindle too. And most had money on the side.


If pool wants to gain and keep fans then long sets are not the way to go. Not if they want a lot of viewers which will generate sponsors. If the players don't care about an audience and they just want action then match up however but while pool isn't basketball, when it comes to attracting and keeping fans then they are both entertainment. It takes something real special to entertain a large group for hours and hours these days.



Vjmehra, thanks for the great post. It was very informative and seems accurate.

Last edited by (((Satori))); 05-13-2016 at 06:51 AM.
  
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05-13-2016, 06:21 AM

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To you Europeans, Americans really don't care what you think. We've been showing you that since the 1770's when we tossed you from here. Not a sermon, just a thought.
Are you trying to become Trump's Secretary of State?
  
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05-13-2016, 07:52 AM

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Originally Posted by (((satori))) View Post
yes i have witnessed several marathon matches. Not necessarily promoted events trying to draw a crowd but action.

I was pointing out the fact that you watched the complete earl because it shows that you are a hardcore fan of pool. Few are like you imo. You blame earl for the fans dwindling, ok, fair enough, if that's what you saw then that is what you saw. I'm just not sure that your dislike for the man didn't effect your perception of how things went down. If shane and darren were the ones in that event the crowd would have thinned just the same i bet. Few want to watch two people play 10 ball over and over for hours and hours like you do. I was at a local match that was marketed beforehand. They wanted everyone to show up for this match where $10000 was bet, a 10 ahead set of 9-ball, 10 hour sessions, it took 3 days, and the road players backer had over $30 k bet with the rail. Everyone who was anyone in the pool world who was in town was there to watch the match when it kicked off. It didn't take long for that crowd to dwindle too. And most had money on the side.
If pool wants to gain and keep fans then long sets are not the way to go. Not if they want a lot of viewers which will generate sponsors. If the players don't care about an audience and they just want action then match up however but while pool isn't basketball, when it comes to attracting and keeping fans then they are both entertainment. It takes something real special to entertain a large group for hours and hours these days.
Vjmehra, thanks for the great post. It was very informative and seems accurate.
cool, i get your point.
Personally, i don't think anyone is chasing pool fans away.
There are so few that desire to watch pool that it will never become a big spectator sport, which is just fine by me.
As long as there are venues that will hold good matches i will be there.
When archer & morra match up at kings of billiards i will be happy to purchase seats & drive the 2 hours to get there & watch.

It has been interesting to find out your opinion on things.
Keep on keepin on,

slim


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05-13-2016, 07:56 AM

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Originally Posted by BeiberLvr View Post
Numbers don't lie.
But to be fair, Soccer or "football" as it's known every where but here, is the most popular sport on the planet. I'd rather watch grass grew personally. Even signed up my kid when he was 6 cause you want him to find what he likes, not what I like.

After the season, he told me he didn't want to play soccer anymore.... It brought a tear to my eye (tears of joy) So, baseball became his game !!!!!
  
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05-13-2016, 08:13 AM

i can sit for well over three hours & never move from my seat during a good one pocket match, but i could not / would not sit for two minutes & watch soccer.

to each his own,

slim


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05-13-2016, 08:35 AM

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Originally Posted by Johnnyt View Post
I blame the TD's, promoters, and the venue itself for letting Earl get away with what he does. And it's only because of more viewers ($$$) buying the PPV. 10 years ago it was for the live gate. Earl thinks he's like tennis star John Mcenroe, when he's just a piss ant compared to him. Johnnyt
Agree. From what I know he, Earl needs to take his meds. He can't as it effects his game. A lot of very gifted people or people in general need to be on something. I played with someone, no name, who was a pro, winner is a certain category of pool. We were on the hill playing one pocket and I asked if he was okay with me taking a smoke break. He was livid as to my request and said in a not so nice way NO, YOU F-en CAN'T.
I broke down my cue and made light of it and just said fine, take the F-en win. I was into my fight or flight mode and I don't fight fair. A pool game isn't worth time in the big house. Well I came to find out he had issues. Health issues and taking pain meds like they were breath mints.
So would I give a person who has a mental disorder or a drug problem a pass, yes, maybe.
That's my side of the story. His might be different.
  
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05-13-2016, 08:56 AM

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Originally Posted by (((Satori))) View Post
I don't know much about snooker. If snooker fans stand or sit and watch a match for 5 or more hours straight then they are lunatics imo. Just kidding of course but I will say that from what I have seen of snooker they have some great promoters behind them. Lots of media connections with professionally produced shows and entertainment to keep fans excited and entertained well beyond when some event ends and before the next one begins. Tell me because I don't know... would Earl be a superstar if he were a snooker player getting that kind of media coverage?
Ronnie O'Sullivan is everything Earl was to pool and more, in terms of pure talent and stardom, and still gets a lot of criticism for things that are so relatively mild that no one would even notice with Earl. Earl's act would not play in the snooker world, IMO. There is a structure there and he would either toe the line or get himself disciplined or banned.

Which, of course, is another problem with pool. There is no structure to enforce anything. Matches are little islands with no greater meaning.

The dichotomy inherent in pool mentality is rather amusing. Read a thread here about someone getting sharked by an opponent in a league match and everyone responds with outrage at the sharking actions. With proposed solutions going up to and including physical violence against the offender. Those threads are legion here. Yet let Earl do far worse in the way of sharking behavior while the opponent is at the table in an important event, and, voila, he is a folk hero.

And then we wonder why normal decent people cannot be motivated in large enough numbers to participate/watch enough to support the sport at a decent level. A clue: if your draw is the antics of your players, not the beauty of their play then there is a problem.

People enjoy watching trainwrecks. We see it right here when a poster who shall not be named get pig-piled here after spouting his usual nonsense.

But it is no way to build and promote a sport.
  
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