APA Rules Question

If I was refing I would have said loss of game also. Anytime you disturb a group of balls that is a loss of game in my book. His or her mistake and hopefully they will learn from it.

loss of game for being a moron.

If your not sure ask. at least before clearing the table.

according to the rules(in my interpretation).... It is ball in hand for player b and player b places the balls back as close to where he thought they origionally were. Since he unintentionally tried to change the game, AND moved more than 1 ball, it is ball in hand.

It SHOULD be loss of game plus a flogging, but sadly it's not. APA lists they only ways a game could be won in at the end. This is not one of them. Re-set the table and incomming player has ball in hand.

Since it seems both teams agreed it was unintentional,it would not be loss of game. The players would reset the balls as close to their position as possible with player B having ball in hand from the scratch. However if this had been a tournament, it would've been a sportsmanship violation and could result in loss of game/match.

he intentionally moved the 8 ball so lose of game. He might not have known he wasn't on the 8 but moved it thinking he lost so conceded the game

So you wanna re-spot 'em . . .

Okay meatball . . . so now you just want me to go on and have it be my shot . . . just remember, I know where you live meatball.

If the rule doesn't call for loss of game in this situation, it should...imo.

I've had an instance where I was playing one pocket, and I shot my 7th ball in. I thought I was out, so I started raking balls toward the rack area, when my opponent "reminded" me of the correct score.

There was no discussion, I knew I had lost the game, and I knew I deserved it. FWIW, that was the ONLY time that ever happened.

i agree it should be loss of game. but not much makes sense in apa.

prob would be a re rack...

It amazes me how often teams can't decide what to do in league play and often the rule book is neatly tucked away in their team packets. Reset the Balls to their orginal position, Ball in hand to the opposing player.

dave sutton said:

i agree it should be loss of game. but not much makes sense in apa.

prob would be a re rack...

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nah, wouldn't be a rerack if anything it would be determined unsportsman like conduct which is a loss of game.

and what happens when you cant agree on original position.

resetting multiple balls is the worst answer IMO

i had a somilar situation where i moved my ball. it was hanging directly in the side pocket. i bumped it into the middle and asked if he wanted to move it back. the guy said sure and and put the ball on the rail between the side pocket and the first diamond. obv not right. after the entire place went crazy and we called the ref guess what happened...

re rack

daphish1 said:

nah, wouldn't be a rerack if anything it would be determined unsportsman like conduct which is a loss of game.

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i agree 100%

Deliberately sweeping the remaining balls on the table to the rack end constitutes a loss of game. The game was conceded by the scratching players action regardless of his motivation. Resetting the rack is not right because the movement of the balls wasn't accidental and pushing them all down to the racking end of the table indicated you are giving up the game, the same as not making your opponent shoot the last ball in and racking is a concession of the game. Once you move the final balls you can't change your mind and move them back.

Player B wins the arguement, because the sweeping action is deemed to be giving up.

I don't think it is a loss of game but I haven't played the APA for some time. IF I remember correctly they just put the balls back... idiotic either way. Only in the APA.

If a player takes the 8 ball off the table I would consider the 8 out of turn. Loss of game.

Loss of game

for Unsportsmen like conduct, whether he intended to do it or not, he did it, and he intended to do it when he did it, no matter what ball he was looking at when he did it ... got it!

There are a few situations that any given rule book won't cover because it just hasn't been thought up, this is one of them. In these situations, common sense and courtesy should be the rule.

A player who rakes the balls is conceding the game. Doesn't matter if he's conceding out of courtesy, mental glitch, spite, or accident. The game is over and he lost. If you can lose by unscrewing your cue to signal the end of the game you can certainly lose by raking the balls. Otherwise you could abuse it as a sharking technique or hoping to gain some advantage in the way the balls were replaced.

Does anyone think the apa REALLY wants players arguing for an hour on the replacement of SEVERAL different balls (especially when nobody bothered to memorize their positions)? They put in rules just to avoid this kind of argument, because even a single ball's position can lead to lengthy debate.

Even if the other team wants to be gentlemen and replace the balls to give the guy another chance, the game is completely altered. Little differences are huge when you're talking about the position of a ball... frozen to the rail vs. a quarter inch off... passes another ball vs. doesn't pass... Replacing any single ball incorrectly would screw up the way the game plays out.

I guess Player B's team could be nice and offer to have the entire game replayed. But my feeling is that if a player is so unfocused about the game, he deserves the loss. Another possibility nobody has mentioned: I've seen guys get so upset about a missed ball or a scratch that they rake 'em. Maybe he wasn't confused at all.