Danny Harriman Controversy

cuetechasaurus

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Did you all read about what happened between Harriman and Archer? Danny was on the hill, and couldn't reach the shot. He took off his shoes, climbed on top of the table on all fours, and made the difficult shot easily. Apparently he found a loophole in the rules, because it doesn't state anywhere that you have to have one foot on the floor. Archer was disgusted with Danny doing that, and wouldn't shake his hand. Danny told Johnny "You're disrespecting me" when Archer refused to shake. Archer said "No you're disrespecting ME by climbing on the table like a monkey".

I totally agree with Archer here. Keeping one foot on the floor is widely known by everyone who plays pool competitively. Nobody discusses it, it's just common pool etiquette that is widely accepted by everyone. I can imagine something like this happening at some local tournament, but in the greatest tournament in the history of pool? Finding a loophole that was an OBVIOUS error that it wasn't included in the rules (probably because nobody has ever tried to exploit this, it didn't even cross their minds), and using it to your advantage like that....that is just bad class. For goodness sake, just get the damn rest and make the damn ball like you are supposed to.

As long as darts has been a sport, lets say at a tournament, there is a line drawn where you are supposed to stand to throw the darts, but there are no written rules for that particular tournament that you have to stand behind that line. Every dart player just knows that you can't be in front of that line, so the dart tournament goes on as usual. All of a sudden, a dart player walks right up to the dartboard, and jabs his darts into the bullseye. Everyone is wondering why the hell he did this, and he says "there are no rules that say I have to stand behind that line at THIS tournament, so its perfectly legal." So here you have a dart player who exploited a tradition of the game to win his dart match. It might have won him the match, but it cost him his dignity and the respect of his fellow players and fans.

Even if he asked the ref before doing it, what can the ref do? It's not in the rule book, but it's just baaaad etiquette. One the plus side, at least he was kind enough to take his shoes off lol.

After I read about this, it feels like there is this brand new Persian rug, and someone just tracked mud all over it. He just lost himself a fan.
 

parvus1202

Suspected hacked account
Silver Member
There were no rules that monkey cannot play pool, right? So that's acceptable. Bring the monkey back to it's cage! People will do anything to win $500,000. I will.
 
Last edited:
A

a_susie_cue

Guest
This can be interpreted in a few ways, but it does state a player can remove his sport coat and tie. However, no where does it state they can remove their shoes. So....the question is now, how do you interpret the dress code and was there a violation of the dress code?

"International Pool Tour Dress Code:
IPT Member Players are expected to be dressed professionally at all times while at an IPT tournament, meeting, exhibition, media event, interview, public appearance, or any time while representing the International Pool Tour. The following guidelines outline the IPT dress code. This dress code may change at any time with or without notice. It is a player's responsibility to be familiar with this dress code. Any questions about certain garments that might not meet this code must be cleared by the Tour Director in advance.

Male players -
The minimum expected dress code for male players is dress slacks, dress shoes (clean and polished), long sleeve button-up dress shirt (with collar), and sport coat. While playing, players may remove their sport coat and roll up their sleeves (if desired). The suggested dress code for male players is a formal suit and tie, with or without a vest, a button-up dress shirt (with collar), and dress shoes, or a sport coat and tie. Turtle necks may also be worn with a sport coat. While playing, players may remove their coat and tie if desired, and roll up their sleeves. No short sleeve shirts are allowed. All shirts must be tucked in with the exception of certain turtle necks."
 

GADawg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You guys are right, but the reason that BCA, APA and other organizations have such complete rules, including the one foot on the floor rule, is to prevent this type of behavior.

I read the IPT rules completely last winter because I played in a league that used rules based on the IPT format. I found the rules to be lacking in detail and pretty superficial. Not of a caliper befitting an organization supposedly so high classed and professional.

Whoever is in charge of the IPT rules should have reviewed all the General Rules of Pool and Billiards item by item and made a decision on each detail on whether it should be in the IPT rules. Making assumptions that "everybody knows" something is not good enough. The devil is in the details.

I don't necessarily agree with what Danny did, but he knew the rules and used them to his advantage. Hard to argue with that approach.
 

GADawg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cuetechasaurus said:
Seems that he violated the dress code by removing his shoes on the playing field.

That could be, but the ref may have told him to take his shoes off before he climbed on the table. Who knows?

I bet before this week is over there will be at least one more player who doesn't have both feet on the floor for a shot.
 

Double-Dave

Developing cue-addict
Silver Member
GADawg said:
That could be, but the ref may have told him to take his shoes off before he climbed on the table. Who knows?

I bet before this week is over there will be at least one more player who doesn't have both feet on the floor for a shot.

I think they will change the rules before the end of the week. I can´t blame Danny, he just read the rules well and found a loophole. Tom Storm should have done that. They could however decide this constitutes bad sportmanship in some form, that way they wouldn´t even have to change the rules.

gr. Dave
 

DelaWho???

Banger McCue
Silver Member
Perhaps the rules state that you must keep one "shoe" on the floor......What a BS thing to do, I bet Johnny was plenty pissed...

McCue Banger McCue
 

GADawg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
smashmouth said:
They could ding him for unsportsmanlike behaviour, I'm sure they'll look
into this.

I don't think so. If he asked the referee and was told it was OK, how can it later be judged unsportsmanlike conduct?
 

DelaWho???

Banger McCue
Silver Member
Come on man....When is it ever acceptable to climb on the table???? I hope he gets his ass handed to him in the next round......You have to be a weasel to win like that...

McCue Banger McCue
 

Icon of Sin

I can't fold, I need gold. I re-up and reload...
Silver Member
Just read about this this morning. Definately weird that it is not a rule and harriman would capitalize on that.

I like Archer, dont get me wrong, but him saying "He disrepected me" seems like he is reading a line from Earl Strickland's script. I think Archer took that personally when Danny was doing what he had to to win the game.

To bad they didnt get a picture of that in the photo gallery.
 

TheOne

www.MetroPool.club
Silver Member
I wouldn't blame Danny if he read the rules and also asked the Ref! To be honest many players don't even know the rules so fair play to him for making sure he did. Didn't he win 8:4 so one shot hardly chanegd the match, seems like an excuse to me? :confused:
 

Snapshot9

son of 3 leg 1 eye dog ..
Silver Member
Wasn't always that way ...

35 years ago when I lived in Houston, there was no rule about one foot on the floor, and them Texas boys didn't care. I crawled up on the table many a time to make a shot, usually on a big table not a bar table. I also have used my left foot as a bridge on occasion.
 

cuetechasaurus

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
TheOne said:
I wouldn't blame Danny if he read the rules and also asked the Ref! To be honest many players don't even know the rules so fair play to him for making sure he did. Didn't he win 8:4 so one shot hardly chanegd the match, seems like an excuse to me? :confused:

Its about respect, class, and professionalism entirely.
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
cuetechasaurus said:
Did you all read about what happened between Harriman and Archer? Danny was on the hill, and couldn't reach the shot. He took off his shoes, climbed on top of the table on all fours, and made the difficult shot easily. Apparently he found a loophole in the rules, because it doesn't state anywhere that you have to have one foot on the floor. Archer was disgusted with Danny doing that, and wouldn't shake his hand. Danny told Johnny "You're disrespecting me" when Archer refused to shake. Archer said "No you're disrespecting ME by climbing on the table like a monkey".

I totally agree with Archer here. Keeping one foot on the floor is widely known by everyone who plays pool competitively. Nobody discusses it, it's just common pool etiquette that is widely accepted by everyone. I can imagine something like this happening at some local tournament, but in the greatest tournament in the history of pool? Finding a loophole that was an OBVIOUS error that it wasn't included in the rules (probably because nobody has ever tried to exploit this, it didn't even cross their minds), and using it to your advantage like that....that is just bad class. For goodness sake, just get the damn rest and make the damn ball like you are supposed to.

As long as darts has been a sport, lets say at a tournament, there is a line drawn where you are supposed to stand to throw the darts, but there are no written rules for that particular tournament that you have to stand behind that line. Every dart player just knows that you can't be in front of that line, so the dart tournament goes on as usual. All of a sudden, a dart player walks right up to the dartboard, and jabs his darts into the bullseye. Everyone is wondering why the hell he did this, and he says "there are no rules that say I have to stand behind that line at THIS tournament, so its perfectly legal." So here you have a dart player who exploited a tradition of the game to win his dart match. It might have won him the match, but it cost him his dignity and the respect of his fellow players and fans.

Even if he asked the ref before doing it, what can the ref do? It's not in the rule book, but it's just baaaad etiquette. One the plus side, at least he was kind enough to take his shoes off lol.

After I read about this, it feels like there is this brand new Persian rug, and someone just tracked mud all over it. He just lost himself a fan.

Because of the flack he'll get from this move, he's actually created a distraction for himself and he'll be fortunate to get through the next round but if he does my guess-it will be his last.
 

Snapshot9

son of 3 leg 1 eye dog ..
Silver Member
Just what is the original source?

of the information to begin with. Let's not raise the cross yet. I don't know how many threads have been started on AZB with 'mis'information.
 

TheOne

www.MetroPool.club
Silver Member
cuetechasaurus said:
Its about respect, class, and professionalism entirely.


I agree, Archer should have shook his hand, said "well played" and if he wasn't happy with the REFEREEs decission he should have made an official complaint to Deno afterwards.
 

ironman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
GADawg said:
I don't think so. If he asked the referee and was told it was OK, how can it later be judged unsportsmanlike conduct?

Just a thought, but, I kinda feel badly for the ref. Strange situation.
The IPT dropped the ball here as well. When you re-write the rule book, as someone said earlier, the devil is in the details.
 

parvus1202

Suspected hacked account
Silver Member
Danny ask the referee knowing that the ref doesn't know anything about the rules, only what was written. Danny knows that if he can get away with it, why not. He can always say he asked the ref. Even in a very small town, with only kids playing they know the rules, one foot should always be touching the ground. It's the oldest, a classic rule.
 
Last edited:
Top