10 ball ghost

[BRKNRUN]

I played the 10 ball ghost tonight for a while. I broke, took ball in hand, and tried to run the rack. I must say it is much much harder than 9 ball. I only ran about one rack out of every 10. The balls do not break as well, and I rarely made a ball on the break.
The balls seems to scatter nicely on the break, but several ended up back at the foot of the table. The back two middle balls don't do much. The corner balls go 4 rails and end up back at the foot.

Did you go back to 9-ball at all? It seems to me that after I break 10-ball for a while, my 9-ball break improves......

I am no expert, but In 9-ball I am first looking for that wing ball break and banking the one toward the corner pocket......In 10-ball I immediatly try to find a way to make the one in the side to insure that I am at least in control of the table after the break.

 

[BAZARUS]

My favorite drill for practicing myself is 9 ball ghost. Since I practice on my table in a apartment complex I do not break the balls, because it makes to much noice and also I don't want thsoe ugly marks on my cloth. I just spred 9 balls over, take the cue ball in hand and try to run out. This drill is as difficult, because there is always 9 balls to pocket since I'm not breaking. I'll try the 10 ball today and see how big the difference is.

 

[dogginda9]

My .02 It's hard for some people to believe it, but the extra ball changes not only the break, but the general feel of the game as well. The extra position necessary. The extra safety options. The extra traffic. It is a BIG difference. Safety play, patterns and kicking are at a premium for sure. As an example. About a year ago, a pro player who is in the Hall of Fame came through town looking for action. A local guy played him some $50 sets of 9 ball and beat him pretty soundly. They switched to 10 ball and the champion pulled away in the long run. There were very few break and runs and it was obvious his pattern play and kicking were going to make the difference.

 

[BRKNRUN]

My .02 It's hard for some people to believe it, but the extra ball changes not only the break, but the general feel of the game as well. The extra position necessary. The extra safety options. The extra traffic. It is a BIG difference. Safety play, patterns and kicking are at a premium for sure. As an example. About a year ago, a pro player who is in the Hall of Fame came through town looking for action. A local guy played him some $50 sets of 9 ball and beat him pretty soundly. They switched to 10 ball and the champion pulled away in the long run. There were very few break and runs and it was obvious his pattern play and kicking were going to make the difference.

Think about this way......As soon as you make a ball...(hopefully on the break)...you are now only playing 9-ball.......

Not that I am one, but "most" seasoned gamblers will try and switch the game to 10-ball IF.

A) The other guy's break is "on" in 9-ball
B) Feels like the other guy is "racking" him

Since 10-ball is harder to get a consistent runnable rack, the advantage goes to the player that "moves" better in the very beginning of the rack....That is why you really top players all want to play 10-ball...The don't want to run into a guy that does not move all that well, but has a "big" break, makes two or three, and then is able to run the other "road map" six balls.

 

[BAZARUS]

I did a drill for years with 10 ball break ball in hand and score 1 point for for each ball pocketed for 10 racks. The rating method I use for myself and my students is slightly higher than it use to be, players are getting better;
75+ Pro
65+ SS
55+ A
45+ B
35+ C
20+ D
Under 20 beginner or social player.

It helps to keep practice interesting for all levels and is nice to watch your average go up over the years. When I first started I was in the 40's.
Highest I've seen was a 98. Steve Tavenier actually sank 100 balls in a competition we ran here in Providence but he scratched in the 10th rack and that was -2!

Today is the first time I've done this drill and here are results:

1- 2
2- 10
2- 2
4 -10
5- 10
6- 6
7- 8
8- 2
9- 3
10-3

-----
56 total

Only thing that I've change it is that I wasn't breaking the balls, because I live in a apt. Also I couldn't get a shape on a part of the table due to a wall obsticle (see the picture) Right side of the table is about 2ft from the wall and up to 4th diamond its really tough.

 

[frankncali]

It's pretty strong and seems to be the new standard for top players whereas only about 5-10 yrs ago the standard for a top player was playing the 10 ball ghost.
Anyone heard of any 13, 14 or 15 ball ghost competitors? I recall reading somewhere that Efren use to (long time ago) play the ghost 15 ball AND start off with ball in hand behind the line!

My buddy played Santos 12 ball ghost. Each player had a shot to runout. If both players did then they were even if not then "jellybeans" were exchanged.
While traveling with him we would often get action witht he ghost. He would have rather played with 11 or 12 balls than with 10. The break is a killer.
We once were playing the 10 ball ghost(combos dont win) for $40 a game and the guys betting quit. I then told him that he would play the 12 ball ghost but combos counted. No go. Ended up getting 3-1 on the money playing the 13 ball ghost and combos counted. He ran the first 3 racks at
50-150 and that was that. I thought we had a better game at 3-1 playing
13 balls then we did with the 10 ball game.

One of my ideas for a tournament is to have players dueling it out playing the ghost. Maybe the players get 10 -20 racks per round and get a point for
ever how many they runout. It would create a leader board like golf. ALso
could be head to head as well.

BTW-Joe check your PM

frankncali

 

[Joe T]

My buddy played Santos 12 ball ghost. Each player had a shot to runout. If both players did then they were even if not then "jellybeans" were exchanged.
While traveling with him we would often get action witht he ghost. He would have rather played with 11 or 12 balls than with 10. The break is a killer.
We once were playing the 10 ball ghost(combos dont win) for $40 a game and the guys betting quit. I then told him that he would play the 12 ball ghost but combos counted. No go. Ended up getting 3-1 on the money playing the 13 ball ghost and combos counted. He ran the first 3 racks at
50-150 and that was that. I thought we had a better game at 3-1 playing
13 balls then we did with the 10 ball game.

One of my ideas for a tournament is to have players dueling it out playing the ghost. Maybe the players get 10 -20 racks per round and get a point for
ever how many they runout. It would create a leader board like golf. ALso
could be head to head as well.

BTW-Joe check your PM

frankncali

Hey Frank I read my pm before this post, I like this type of competition and I actually ran a handicapped regional league using a similar one (2 12-16 week sessions) and we pulled off 2 great payouts like 5-10K. Two of the best things were; Everyone that completed the season finished with a higher average run than they started with, 99% improvement rate and the other was there was a lot, lot less complaining about handicaps when the players lost because when they lost they knew it was because they didn't shoot their average. A brief example of the scoring was if a 35 handicap shot 35 after 10 racks they got 100 percentage points, if a 70 shot 70 they got 100 percentage points. I had a lot of things built in towards the handicapping that I don't want to get into here but will say there were added bonus points for higher ranking players because of the law of diminishing returns and each week players showed up to shoot their own 30 racks of 10 ball. Wish I could afford the time to run these again because all the room owners and players liked it.

 

[unknownpro]

My buddy played Santos 12 ball ghost. Each player had a shot to runout. If both players did then they were even if not then "jellybeans" were exchanged.
While traveling with him we would often get action witht he ghost. He would have rather played with 11 or 12 balls than with 10. The break is a killer.
We once were playing the 10 ball ghost(combos dont win) for $40 a game and the guys betting quit. I then told him that he would play the 12 ball ghost but combos counted. No go. Ended up getting 3-1 on the money playing the 13 ball ghost and combos counted. He ran the first 3 racks at
50-150 and that was that. I thought we had a better game at 3-1 playing
13 balls then we did with the 10 ball game.

One of my ideas for a tournament is to have players dueling it out playing the ghost. Maybe the players get 10 -20 racks per round and get a point for
ever how many they runout. It would create a leader board like golf. ALso
could be head to head as well.

BTW-Joe check your PM

frankncali

That's very strong... most of the top guys don't want anybody to know the speed they are really capable of. It seems like 11-ball is harder to me, it breaks like crap on my table. Twelve ball explodes with a good rack and you can make 4 balls a lot. I've made 6 breaking off-handed. Haven't tried much 13-ball.

Your average 9-ball player has no idea the skill of the top guys because there are hardly ever any really stuck balls in 9-ball. They see Efren break a couple of balls out in a match and don't realize he can do that 5 times a game if he needs to.

unknownpro

 

[frankncali]

That's very strong... most of the top guys don't want anybody to know the speed they are really capable of. It seems like 11-ball is harder to me, it breaks like crap on my table. Twelve ball explodes with a good rack and you can make 4 balls a lot. I've made 6 breaking off-handed. Haven't tried much 13-ball.

Your average 9-ball player has no idea the skill of the top guys because there are hardly ever any really stuck balls in 9-ball. They see Efren break a couple of balls out in a match and don't realize he can do that 5 times a game if he needs to.

unknownpro

I agree with it being strong.
I dont like to judge playing the ghost with someones overall game however. The guy plays very well and IMO could be one of the top players around but something or some seasoning is missing. I wonder how many guys will appear to come from nowhere if the IPT is a success.
One thing that has always stuck with me is something one of the very best players around told me once....
he said that a hard shot for me is a hard shot for him...difference was that he knew how to avoid them and tried to put the pressure on the other player and not himself.
I think alot of players believe that the top players "just" shoot better when in
reality they "play" better.

 

[Snake]

It's pretty strong and seems to be the new standard for top players whereas only about 5-10 yrs ago the standard for a top player was playing the 10 ball ghost.
Anyone heard of any 13, 14 or 15 ball ghost competitors? I recall reading somewhere that Efren use to (long time ago) play the ghost 15 ball AND start off with ball in hand behind the line!

At Hard Times earlier this year during warm ups I saw Efren break (15 balls) take ball in hand and run 15 and out into one pocket. After warming up a guy challenged him to play one pocket, the spot was 15 to 2, The guy broke and Efren again ran 15 and out. I would not have believd it if I wasn't there. Peace.

snake

 

[Snake]

My buddy played Santos 12 ball ghost. Each player had a shot to runout. If both players did then they were even if not then "jellybeans" were exchanged.
While traveling with him we would often get action witht he ghost. He would have rather played with 11 or 12 balls than with 10. The break is a killer.
We once were playing the 10 ball ghost(combos dont win) for $40 a game and the guys betting quit. I then told him that he would play the 12 ball ghost but combos counted. No go. Ended up getting 3-1 on the money playing the 13 ball ghost and combos counted. He ran the first 3 racks at
50-150 and that was that. I thought we had a better game at 3-1 playing
13 balls then we did with the 10 ball game.

One of my ideas for a tournament is to have players dueling it out playing the ghost. Maybe the players get 10 -20 racks per round and get a point for
ever how many they runout. It would create a leader board like golf. ALso
could be head to head as well.

BTW-Joe check your PM

frankncali

There is a game very similar to this called Total Offensive Pool (T.O.P.) organized and run by John Bryant here in L.A. There are 10 tables set up with different ball lay outs (9 Balls) and you shoot until your out, each ball is worth 1 point. The first T.O.P. was a couple of years ago at Billiard Connection in Northridge and Max Eberle won. Recently they have been held at Hollywood Billiards, I think Ernesto D. has won the last couple of times with very impressive scores, 9's and 10's on almost every table which is extremly difficult because the pockets are cut very tight. I would love to see this type of tournament more often and with other pros. Peace.

snake

 

[Hal]

There is a game very similar to this called Total Offensive Pool (T.O.P.) organized and run by John Bryant here in L.A. There are 10 tables set up with different ball lay outs (9 Balls) and you shoot until your out, each ball is worth 1 point. The first T.O.P. was a couple of years ago at Billiard Connection in Northridge and Max Eberle won. Recently they have been held at Hollywood Billiards, I think Ernesto D. has won the last couple of times with very impressive scores, 9's and 10's on almost every table which is extremly difficult because the pockets are cut very tight. I would love to see this type of tournament more often and with other pros. Peace.

snake

I like that idea.

 

[frankncali]

There is a game very similar to this called Total Offensive Pool (T.O.P.) organized and run by John Bryant here in L.A. There are 10 tables set up with different ball lay outs (9 Balls) and you shoot until your out, each ball is worth 1 point. The first T.O.P. was a couple of years ago at Billiard Connection in Northridge and Max Eberle won. Recently they have been held at Hollywood Billiards, I think Ernesto D. has won the last couple of times with very impressive scores, 9's and 10's on almost every table which is extremly difficult because the pockets are cut very tight. I would love to see this type of tournament more often and with other pros. Peace.

snake

I went to one of the T.O.P. tourneys at Hollywood Billiards.
I enjoyed it but as a participant found it very frustrating and quick.
We got one trip through 5 tables and if you finished in the top 8 players
you got another trip through the tables. Total of both trips wins.

I like the concept however. Ernesto has won every won I ahve ever heard about other than the one Max won a couple years ago.

 

[unknownpro]

At Hard Times earlier this year during warm ups I saw Efren break (15 balls) take ball in hand and run 15 and out into one pocket. After warming up a guy challenged him to play one pocket, the spot was 15 to 2, The guy broke and Efren again ran 15 and out. I would not have believd it if I wasn't there. Peace.

snake

Which do you think is harder, running 15 balls in rotation on 6 pockets or running 15 balls in one pocket?

unknownpro

 

[Snake]

Which do you think is harder, running 15 balls in rotation on 6 pockets or running 15 balls in one pocket?

unknownpro

Good question, after thinking for awhile maybe 15 ball rotation would be a bit tougher. What do you think?

 

[unknownpro]

Good question, after thinking for awhile maybe 15 ball rotation would be a bit tougher. What do you think?

I think rotation is harder, could be wrong though.

unknownpro

 

[Hal]

In my opinion 15 balls in one pocket would be very much harder than running a 15 ball rotation using 6 pockets.

 

[Black-Balled]

In my opinion 15 balls in one pocket would be very much harder than running a 15 ball in rotation in 6 pockets.

I dunno. I have done 13+ in 1hole, but never in order in all pockets.
Tough question!

 

[Jersey]

Tap, Tap, Tap...

I agree with it being strong.
I dont like to judge playing the ghost with someones overall game however. The guy plays very well and IMO could be one of the top players around but something or some seasoning is missing. I wonder how many guys will appear to come from nowhere if the IPT is a success.
One thing that has always stuck with me is something one of the very best players around told me once....
he said that a hard shot for me is a hard shot for him...difference was that he knew how to avoid them and tried to put the pressure on the other player and not himself.
I think alot of players believe that the top players "just" shoot better when in
reality they "play" better.

Love the quote frankncali...

'playing better -vs- shooting better'

I agree, a shot is a shot for everyone, the difference is how often one needs to come with those shots...bravo!

 

[Jersey]

10 Ghost Scoring...

So as for the scoring...

Playing 10 Racks, hoping for 100 balls...

Rack 1 for example, if I don't run the rack I'm negative the # of balls I left up?...is that correct?

gonna add it to my routine, playing a Vegas Singles Qualifier next weekend...see ya in Sin City!

thx~