11.75 vs 12.75?

travis13

travis13

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Most of the people in my pool hall use 11.75 shafts. The owner is a Predator dealer and they pretty much all use z2's. The other night I pulled out my 314 and started shooting with it, and they gave me a hard time because I usually use a z2. I told them I thought the 314 was more forgiving.

Here is the logic I used to explain to them and I would like to know your thoughts on the 2 shafts: I am a golf course superintendent and a scratch golfer. I compared a pool shaft to a golf club. In golf, there are different types of clubs for a players skill level. Most pros use blades, or players clubs which have a small thickness in steel which makes them less forgiving, but you are able to shape the ball better and the feel is better.

Then there are game improvement clubs, which are thicker or "clunkier" but are more forgiving. They have a larger sweet spot and can hit the ball straighter and longer with a poorer golf swing, but you give up some feel and shot shaping ability.

I used this comparison for the 314 and the z2, the z2 being the blade and the 314 being the game improvement club. Is there any logic to this or was I talking out of my ass? I feel like I can pocket balls easier with the 314, but sometime I shoot lights out with the z2. Is it just in my head or is the 314 more forgiving?
 
travis13 said:
Most of the people in my pool hall use 11.75 shafts. The owner is a Predator dealer and they pretty much all use z2's. The other night I pulled out my 314 and started shooting with it, and they gave me a hard time because I usually use a z2. I told them I thought the 314 was more forgiving.

Here is the logic I used to explain to them and I would like to know your thoughts on the 2 shafts: I am a golf course superintendent and a scratch golfer. I compared a pool shaft to a golf club. In golf, there are different types of clubs for a players skill level. Most pros use blades, or players clubs which have a small thickness in steel which makes them less forgiving, but you are able to shape the ball better and the feel is better.

Then there are game improvement clubs, which are thicker or "clunkier" but are more forgiving. They have a larger sweet spot and can hit the ball straighter and longer with a poorer golf swing, but you give up some feel and shot shaping ability.

I used this comparison for the 314 and the z2, the z2 being the blade and the 314 being the game improvement club. Is there any logic to this or was I talking out of my ass? I feel like I can pocket balls easier with the 314, but sometime I shoot lights out with the z2. Is it just in my head or is the 314 more forgiving?
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I agree, if you can get in plenty of playing time the Z2 is great, if not the thicker shaft is more forgiving on slightly miss hit balls.
 
travis13 said:
Most of the people in my pool hall use 11.75 shafts. The owner is a Predator dealer and they pretty much all use z2's. The other night I pulled out my 314 and started shooting with it, and they gave me a hard time because I usually use a z2. I told them I thought the 314 was more forgiving.

Here is the logic I used to explain to them and I would like to know your thoughts on the 2 shafts: I am a golf course superintendent and a scratch golfer. I compared a pool shaft to a golf club. In golf, there are different types of clubs for a players skill level. Most pros use blades, or players clubs which have a small thickness in steel which makes them less forgiving, but you are able to shape the ball better and the feel is better.

Then there are game improvement clubs, which are thicker or "clunkier" but are more forgiving. They have a larger sweet spot and can hit the ball straighter and longer with a poorer golf swing, but you give up some feel and shot shaping ability.

I used this comparison for the 314 and the z2, the z2 being the blade and the 314 being the game improvement club. Is there any logic to this or was I talking out of my ass? I feel like I can pocket balls easier with the 314, but sometime I shoot lights out with the z2. Is it just in my head or is the 314 more forgiving?
Click to expand...

I own both, but I play with my original 314. It just feels better to me.
I dont think there is enough enough diff in the 2 shafts to really change how one plays. Good Luck
 
A good chance I'm not understanding you correctly but the tip-to-contact spot on the cue ball is the same with either shaft isn't it? I can see the 11.75 letting you get a little better draw becasue you might be able to get a little lower on the cue ball but that is about it. I guess I'm not sure.
 
I might be mistaken but isn't the Z2 11.25mm? I own a OB-2 shaft and that is 11.75mm and I love it. So easy to apply spin to the cue ball. I will say that it becomes more difficult to play center ball hits. I know I accidently apply left, right, bottom and top spin but usually not enough to really impact the shot.

To me the downside is going back to a thicker shaft after using the OB-2 for so long. They just feel weird now.
 
Hey Travis,
I am a semi-pro player and I would tend to agree with your analysis. Though I don't play with a predator, I did just switch from a 12.7mm shaft to a 12mm shaft, I noticed a big difference in the amount of English I get with the smaller tip. I can do things that just weren't possible with the thicker shaft. I was over spinning all of my shots with English for the first couple days and it is definitely harder to make a clean straight shot. I believe a skinnier shaft and tip makes for a more high performance cue. It's like the difference between driving a station wagon and dodge viper, the viper can definitely do more, but it's a lot easier to f**k it up too. I believe you definitely have to be more precise with a skinnier shaft.
 
CamposCues said:
A good chance I'm not understanding you correctly but the tip-to-contact spot on the cue ball is the same with either shaft isn't it? I can see the 11.75 letting you get a little better draw becasue you might be able to get a little lower on the cue ball but that is about it. I guess I'm not sure.
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Sure you re right on here-as long as it is trimmed the same way (dime or whatever).
 
CamposCues said:
A good chance I'm not understanding you correctly but the tip-to-contact spot on the cue ball is the same with either shaft isn't it? I can see the 11.75 letting you get a little better draw becasue you might be able to get a little lower on the cue ball but that is about it. I guess I'm not sure.
Click to expand...

Makes sense
 
w9ball said:
Hey Travis,
I am a semi-pro player and I would tend to agree with your analysis. Though I don't play with a predator, I did just switch from a 12.7mm shaft to a 12mm shaft, I noticed a big difference in the amount of English I get with the smaller tip. I can do things that just weren't possible with the thicker shaft. I was over spinning all of my shots with English for the first couple days and it is definitely harder to make a clean straight shot. I believe a skinnier shaft and tip makes for a more high performance cue. It's like the difference between driving a station wagon and dodge viper, the viper can definitely do more, but it's a lot easier to f**k it up too. I believe you definitely have to be more precise with a skinnier shaft.
Click to expand...

Are going to stick with the 12mm? I'd also be curious to know how many pros use anything less than 12mm. I would be willing to bet it is not that many.
 
Hi there again :)

with a thinner tip you re able to vary more with english- that s all. The *zone of scratching* on the CB will always be the same :)
Some ppl just feel more comfortable with thinner tips-some like it old-styled (12,75-13.25). Both has their advantages.
But this shouldn t affect yourself. Try out what feels best for you and what is best for you in YOUR opinion.
What does make sense and is true from my experience: with a bigger diameter it s a bit easier to play. But at the moment we are all living in this *low-deflection-time* where everybody is talking about low-deflection. And depending on this more and more ppl are playin smaller diametres.
Has nothing to do with skill- they also made 200 balls in a row with 13 mm shafts and they were also non-laminated. So who cares?
Find what s comfortable for you and bang em all^^

keep shooting,

Ingo
 
i thought if you have a bigger tip you are getting more of the tip on the ball, bigger sweet spot and more forgiving? because the smaller tip is that much more accurate in placement on the cb.

the shape of the tip would make a difference also, dime v nickel. i thought on the bigger diameter shafts have a nickel radius and the smaller shafts(like 12mm or less) would have a dime radius and would also minimize tip to cb surface area... i could be talking out of my *** also

well anyway i thought this was an interesting topic!
 
I've struggled with the 12.75 versus the 11.75 for 3 years. R360 and OB1 versus the OB2 and Z2 and never got really happy with either one. I would change back and forth. I felt like Goldilocks and the 3 bears. This shaft is too big and this shaft is too small. Then I purchased a custom cue from Steve Lomax and told him I could not decide on the shaft size. He made me a 12.25 shaft and just like Goldilocks I said this one is just right. I will never change again. I think it gives me the best of both worlds. Just my thoughts.
 
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I prefer 11.75. I have smaller hands so it's comfortable, and I get serious action on the CB. Sure it's less forgiving, but for me the positives far outweigh the negatives.
 
travis13 said:
Most of the people in my pool hall use 11.75 shafts. The owner is a Predator dealer and they pretty much all use z2's. The other night I pulled out my 314 and started shooting with it, and they gave me a hard time because I usually use a z2. I told them I thought the 314 was more forgiving.
?
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Dont understand they would do that. No one has ever made any negative remarks about any of the cues that I use. They may ask about it but never told me to get something different.
 
travis13 said:
Are going to stick with the 12mm? I'd also be curious to know how many pros use anything less than 12mm. I would be willing to bet it is not that many.
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I was playing Mike Davis at a recent tournament, he's a high level pro. I noticed his shaft looked like a toothpick and I said so jokingly to him. He said it is a 10.7mm predator, I don't remember what model. Guy shoots straight as an arrow. He made like 2 mistakes in the set. I heard him telling another top pro about it later saying how much he loved it. I am sticking with my new 12mm, it gives me a feeling of more control, more options, easier to get out of difficult situations. I can throw the ball further, which means I might be able to pocket a ball that you can't because part of the ball is obstructed. I'm already used to it and my old cue feels super weird now. But if your not advanced, I wouldn't recommend it.
 
book collector said:
I agree, if you can get in plenty of playing time the Z2 is great, if not the thicker shaft is more forgiving on slightly miss hit balls.
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I agree. I can get away with using a Z2 on a bar table, but I don't care for that small shaft diameter on a 9' table. I prefer a 314-2 shaft and 12.75mm is perfect for me.

James
 
travis13 said:
Most of the people in my pool hall use 11.75 shafts. The owner is a Predator dealer and they pretty much all use z2's. The other night I pulled out my 314 and started shooting with it, and they gave me a hard time because I usually use a z2. I told them I thought the 314 was more forgiving.

Here is the logic I used to explain to them and I would like to know your thoughts on the 2 shafts: I am a golf course superintendent and a scratch golfer. I compared a pool shaft to a golf club. In golf, there are different types of clubs for a players skill level. Most pros use blades, or players clubs which have a small thickness in steel which makes them less forgiving, but you are able to shape the ball better and the feel is better.

Then there are game improvement clubs, which are thicker or "clunkier" but are more forgiving. They have a larger sweet spot and can hit the ball straighter and longer with a poorer golf swing, but you give up some feel and shot shaping ability.

I used this comparison for the 314 and the z2, the z2 being the blade and the 314 being the game improvement club. Is there any logic to this or was I talking out of my ass? I feel like I can pocket balls easier with the 314, but sometime I shoot lights out with the z2. Is it just in my head or is the 314 more forgiving?
Click to expand...


IMO....your Golf comparison is a bit off.....I think the reason Pro's use blades...aka (forged) irons is for consistency.....Cast clubs have hot spots. A pro wants to know that when they hit the 8 iron the ball is going to go an exact distance every time....cast clubs can tend to vary from 5 to 15 yards.....and a ball that flies 15 yards too far can end up being a disaster for that hole.

IF cast were consistent....pros would use them all day because they are a bit more forgiving on mi shits.

There are pros that use cavity back blades....but they are still forged...The difference between the two then becomes personal preference...I played with "muscle back" blades that were just as forgiving as the cavity back "forged" blades....I preferred looking at a smaller "thinner" blade than the thicker "bulky" looking blades.

As far as pool shaft size goes....IMO...I really feel it is just personal preference as far as shaft size goes...what fits your hand?....similar to that of using different size grips on a golf club...what fits your hand....I feel the butt end size should also be determined by what fits your hand.

I think the comparison of shaft playability is more in the whip vs stiffness of the shaft....again similar to golf club shafts....

In golf...ideally you want as much whip as you can control in a golf club...you will get more distance....but you give up some control and "consitency"....The stiffer the shaft, the more controle...but you lose distance if you don't have the swing speed to accommodate.

I think the pool cue shaft is similar in that you (I) seem to get more CB action from a whippy shaft, but I lose control...the stiffer shaft requires a much better stroke but you (I) gain a much greater controle over the CB.

The trick is to find that happy medium of a cue set up that fits your own personal natural stroke....That will be the cue (and cue maker) that you think is the best in the world.

For me...it is a BCM cue....his specific set up fits my hands and has just the right amount of stiffness and balance in the cue that fits my personal stroke.

Personally I prefer a tip size of about 12.5:smile:
 
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